Cardiff Airport - General Thread

aviatorconcorde

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The problem is that any UK approach wouldn't be a genuine 4 nation approach with say a joint committee and a consensus on the way to go forward. It would just simply be the UK government saying do as you're told to the other governments.
There should and could of been a co-operative approach by 4 governments but Labour don’t want to be seen as working with the Tories. It’s all about the upcoming elections.

The Welsh Government wouldn’t of wanted it even if it had been offered.
 

TheLocalYokel

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The problem is that any UK approach wouldn't be a genuine 4 nation approach with say a joint committee and a consensus on the way to go forward. It would just simply be the UK government saying do as you're told to the other governments.
The Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish governments have gone their individual ways with measures and restrictions for tackling the pandemic, let alone the UK government. How could there be confidence that a consensus would arrive if they had parity with the UK government wearing its England hat if some sort of joint committee was formed for dealing with coronavirus?

Ms Sturgeon is clearly loving the daily UK-wide television attention she gets each weekday lunchtime with her pontifications that relate solely to Scotland so she would be unlikely to want to give that up.
 

aviatorconcorde

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The Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish governments have gone their individual ways with measures and restrictions for tackling the pandemic, let alone the UK government. How could there be confidence that a consensus would arrive if they had parity with the UK government wearing its England hat if some sort of joint committee was formed for dealing with coronavirus?

Ms Sturgeon is clearly loving the daily UK-wide television attention she gets each weekday lunchtime with her pontifications that relate solely to Scotland so she would be unlikely to want to give that up.

exactly - political point scoring.
 

Jerry

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There should and could of been a co-operative approach by 4 governments but Labour don’t want to be seen as working with the Tories. It’s all about the upcoming elections.

The Welsh Government wouldn’t of wanted it even if it had been offered.
They did try in the beginning much to the criticism of pro indy movement.
It'll be interesting to see what the WG does. Do they open Wales up and risk spreading covid19 into a partly vaccinated population? And what happens with Cardiff Airport? How long can it remain closed essentially, especially if Wales wants to keep airline's like Ryanair and Wizz. Getting KLM back as well will be vital for international connectivity that the economy will need to start to recover. And if there is continued barriers to travel like quarantine and testing will a small airport actually be viable at all?
 

KARFA

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It'll be interesting to see what the WG does. Do they open Wales up and risk spreading covid19 into a partly vaccinated population? And what happens with Cardiff Airport? How long can it remain closed essentially, especially if Wales wants to keep airline's like Ryanair and Wizz. Getting KLM back as well will be vital for international connectivity that the economy will need to start to recover. And if there is continued barriers to travel like quarantine and testing will a small airport actually be viable at all?

The rules Wales has put in place from today are they are not doing hotel quarantine and just stating if you have been to a red list country within the last 10 days you cannot enter. The are also doing the mandatory post arrival day 2&8 tests.
 

aviatorconcorde

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They did try in the beginning much to the criticism of pro indy movement.
It'll be interesting to see what the WG does. Do they open Wales up and risk spreading covid19 into a partly vaccinated population? And what happens with Cardiff Airport? How long can it remain closed essentially, especially if Wales wants to keep airline's like Ryanair and Wizz. Getting KLM back as well will be vital for international connectivity that the economy will need to start to recover. And if there is continued barriers to travel like quarantine and testing will a small airport actually be viable at all?
I don’t think they should open the airport. The airport will come back at the appropriate time but we don’t want any new variants here please
 

Jerry

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I don’t think they should open the airport. The airport will come back at the appropriate time but we don’t want any new variants here please
Any new variants are more likely to come across the border than through Cardiff Airport and we are going to have to get back to some sort of normality eventually.
 

aviatorconcorde

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Any new variants are more likely to come across the border than through Cardiff Airport and we are going to have to get back to some sort of normality eventually.
Likely - but that doesn’t eliminate the direct risks of them coming through Cardiff either. Someone could easily pick one up changing planes in Schiphol.

Personally I think flights should be minimised and everyone in the UK regardless of where they’re arriving from should be quarantining in hotels. Lets get our own country back to normal first.

There is absolutely no point in undoing all this hard vaccine work.
 

KARFA

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Personally I think flights should be minimised and everyone in the UK regardless of where they’re arriving from should be quarantining in hotels. Lets get our own country back to normal first.

The two are not necessarily linked tho. Quarantining every single arrival even if they have only been to low risk countries within the last 10 days does not mean you will get the country back to normal any faster.
 

Jerry

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Likely - but that doesn’t eliminate the direct risks of them coming through Cardiff either. Someone could easily pick one up changing planes in Schiphol.

Personally I think flights should be minimised and everyone in the UK regardless of where they’re arriving from should be quarantining in hotels. Lets get our own country back to normal first.

There is absolutely no point in undoing all this hard vaccine work.
The problem is that covid19 isn't likely to go away so the threat is always going to be there. Do we permanently shut ourselves off to the world?
 

aviatorconcorde

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The two are not necessarily linked tho. Quarantining every single arrival even if they have only been to low risk countries within the last 10 days does not mean you will get the country back to normal any faster.
Of course it would - it stops any new clusters being started off anywhere. Thus reducing the case rate. The variants are a greater concern because it’s not known if the vaccine works against it.
 

KARFA

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Of course it would - it stops any new clusters being started off anywhere. Thus reducing the case rate. The variants are a greater concern because it’s not known if the vaccine works against it.

so completely closed borders until when? forever?

EDIT: just as a reminder, all non red list entrants already have to self isolate for 10 days and take tests on days 2&8. this is about balancing the reduction of risk whilst trying to refrain from doing too much harm in other ways. you can go for the zero tolerance approach but it will do a huge amount of harm elsewhere,
 
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mathers_wales_uk

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so who is going to pay for the businesses at Cardiff Airport who cannot make money because the airport is forced to close.

airports/airlines have had restrictions since day one and there is very little to assist them.

There has to be a way to move forward. The stance by the Welsh Government has again hindered movements into Wales and pushed them into England.

Passengers can still come into Wales but they come once they completed their isolation across the border.

the Welsh Government could have given the hotel a potential income boost by allowing to passengers to quarantine there and therefore reducing their dependency on Government handouts.

We are day 4 into the new restrictions and the exemptions list is still not available and under review.
 

TheLocalYokel

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I expect the UK Government to review its Aviation policy to reflect the extraordinary situation we are now in and to create, and fund, a substantial package of support that can support the regulatory and financial costs on critical regional airports such as Cardiff. However, despite these calls to the UK Government, Cardiff Airport has not received any direct support from the UK Government to ensure its medium to long-term viability. As the shareholder, and recognising the importance of this key infrastructure, we have decided to take decisive action now – to delay would mean the loss of the airport and our entire investment

Why would the Welsh government expect the UK government to support CWL when it has only supported English airports when wearing its English government hat, given that England has no devolved government of its own?

The WG has now chosen to help CWL and itself as airport owner and its country by providing a level of financial support (over £80 million - 50% more than it paid for CWL even taking inflation since then into account) which is over ten times the amount provided to any English airport by the UK government package during the pandemic. If the UK government offered CWL a support package up to £8 million that it is offering English airports that would have been nowhere near the £80 million-plus that the WG considers is necessary to ensure CWL's survival. The WG would still have had to find the bulk of the money itself.

When the WG bought CWL it was, or should have been, aware of the commercial realities. Unlike a private sector airport that would normally have to close if it becomes financially unsustainable the government-owned CWL owners can always dip into public funds when things become tough, as it is now going.

It does seem that CWL is only sustainable with large amounts of public money; first to buy it and then to sustain its loss-making status; now to ensure it is able to survive at all. Having committed itself to a considerable sum to ensure the airport survives the owner must now be certain that its actions will bear fruit through a growing airport. The quickest way to secure that aim that aim is to spend public money on paying airlines to operate, as it did though ultimately unsuccessfully with Flybe. Some of the up to £42.6 million grant might be earmarked for that of course.

This suggests strongly that the one non-major UK airport that is certain to survive the pandemic is CWL, as having committed itself to this level of financial support the WG can hardly pull the plug a year or two down the line if more financial help is needed, unless the political colour and outlook of the administration changes.

As someone whose interest in aviation lies mainly with the economics of the industry rather than spotting or watching aircraft, I find the WG/CWL situation fascinating. I'm not a Welsh tax payer neither does my job depend on it (I'm retired anyway) so I can view the matter dispassionately.

I expect varying shades of opinion amongst Welsh tax payers about the WG's actions, especially as the financial assistance to CWL will amount to over 11% of the Barnett formula increase to Wales announced by the UK Chancellor in the Budget today.
 

Jerry

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Why would the Welsh government expect the UK government to support CWL when it has only supported English airports when wearing its English government hat, given that England has no devolved government of its own?
The Welsh government like to see the UK government as Wales safety net in times like these so I suspect that they were hoping that the UK government help to show that in a way I guess.

It does seem that CWL is only sustainable with large amounts of public money; first to buy it and then to sustain its loss-making status; now to ensure it is able to survive at all.
It's a case of what choice do they have? How can Wales promote itself around the world as a country to invest in and as a tourist destination without global links even via a hubs like Amsterdam and Doha? The argument of we can use Bristol, Manchester and Heathrow comes up a lot and that Cardiff Airport is just a vanity project but what country of Wales size and population doesn't have the ability for people to fly into it even if via hubs. The airport has attracted WizzAir to base, Ryanair and Vueling still seem interested into flying into Cardiff, TUI seem to be committed as is KLM so with the debt essentially written off and big pot of money for upgrades like the runway resurfacing and ILS upgrade and the potential for a route development pot that can help get routes to Ireland, Scotland, France and Italy back then it's quite possible the airport may come out the pandemic more secure than when it went into it.
 

aviatorconcorde

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The Welsh government will give Cardiff Airport a grant of £42.6 million and has written off the same amount from the airports debt to secure the long term future of the airport.
I’m sorry but this is unacceptable. cardiff airport is becoming a huge tax payer black hole.

I am a huge supporter of the airport but i do question if Welsh government are the correct people to be running it.
 

Jerry

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I’m sorry but this is unacceptable. cardiff airport is becoming a huge tax payer black hole.

I am a huge supporter of the airport but i do question if Welsh government are the correct people to be running it.
What else can they do? If it was in private hands 1 Why wouldn't they go to the government for money? 2 Would the airports future be secure in a time like this?
The Welsh government obviously feel that the airport is important enough to Wales to make such a commitment to it.
 

aviatorconcorde

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What else can they do? If it was in private hands 1 Why wouldn't they go to the government for money? 2 Would the airports future be secure in a time like this?
The Welsh government obviously feel that the airport is important enough to Wales to make such a commitment to it.
In contray to what the Welsh Assembly thinks, Why should the tax payers pay for this airport that’s become a black hole? Especially North wales tax payers who have no use of it whatsoever.
 
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