Airport Security, Immigration & Border Control

gcoabc1

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Sep 20, 2017
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You can only offer so much overtime. And people may not want to take it. So in reality offering that is pointless. Oh and they'll also have to be trained and go under the training to be a security officer. I don't see the point.



The sector that was banging on and on and on at the DFT and Grant Shapps door only to be ignored, passed off, and shafted. It's unbelievable the press going for airports about this. They really should be slating Shapps for his useless rainbow traffic light system and Rishi for his narcissistic approach when it came to packages of support. But alas the press are not that intelligent.






I think everyone also needs to remember security is not just at the channel we, as passengers pass through. The security team are responsible for the whole airfield and ensuring it's secure and doing checks repeatedly. They are responsible for allowing staff onto the airfield which includes the crews for all flights, fullers, all your ground staff to board flights etc. That is through a separate channel which needs manning 24/7. And finally any vehicle which leaves airside and then wants to come back through OR any vehicle entering the airfield zone needs a thorough check before been let onto the airfield. This means all your catering trucks for everyone to enjoy a cuppa or buy bottle of gin on board, any vehicles belonging to ground handlers, and fullers delivering fuel to the airport. Both these channels (Staff and Vehicle) at LBA are manned from the same building.

There is also security staff which are needed to process airside passes and therefore give them out to staff which are desperately needed in security and by airlines for crew etc. Security at an airport is a big job and not just what we see. And the press won't educate the public as that doesn't sell.
What you should also realise in regard to being offered overtime is that the morning staff have been on duty from around 0300 to 1300. To be offered overtime to meet the afternoon / evening surge means having to go home for as little as a hour and a half before returning. After travelling time what's the point.
If you stayed at the airport you may as well be working and switching off and then back on again can be challenging. Continue working on site or don't offer it at all.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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What you should also realise in regard to being offered overtime is that the morning staff have been on duty from around 0300 to 1300. To be offered overtime to meet the afternoon / evening surge means having to go home for as little as a hour and a half before returning. After travelling time what's the point.
If you stayed at the airport you may as well be working and switching off and then back on again can be challenging. Continue working on site or don't offer it at all.

Oh I realise that. But you cant just offer extended shifts, you have to offer full shifts to cover shortness for “peaks” and where the hot spots are.

Ultimately as I’ve said overtime can be offered. If not taken up the employer is just in the exact same position as it was.
 

Aviador

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you ask “Like What?” and I agree it’s very difficult with an “industry wide problem” but as a very regular user there are some little tweaks that will help. Sadly, through media exposure, this has now become like the recent supermarket and petrol shortages. People are panicking and who can blame them when they stand to be several hundreds of pounds out of pocket and loose their holidays. Accepting the only people to do physical checks are those trained and vetted to do so I would reconfigure the security hall with more counters and trays before the scanners, use other airport staff from management and admin roles, on overtime, to work proactively with passengers to absolutely ensure what they present for scanning is correct which, from my observations, would significantly reduce the manual searching and double scanning. Others could work the queues keeping passengers informed. Whether we like it or not this requires action and not just words.
A reconfigure with more counters and trays was planned for the now canned new terminal. There were actually going to be less scanners but with more appropriate equipment which is too large for the current set up. The airport will be working hard to ensure the space is provided at the earliest opportunity. Tray conveyors were one of the things they were looking at to improve the security screening process.
 

LBAYORKIE

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Dec 30, 2009
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I am told following a post in the General thread, that checked in bags are loaded promptly. This means that if a passenger is stuck in the queue the bags have to be offloaded. Sorting through loaded bags takes ages and must result in delays to flights and also ties up staff that could be usefully used elsewhere.

I cant understand why the airlines dont just bring passengers to the front of the queue. I know that also takes resource but its got to be the better option. Also staff bringing pax to the front of the queue dont need airside passes so could be recruited and put to work quickly.
 

arry

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Apr 4, 2011
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I can see the attraction to the airlines LBAYorkie but it creates a 2 tier system. Those with baggage get preferential treatment are rushed through and off they go. Hand baggage passengers wait in line and miss their flight! What worries me is Mr Hodder‘s interview last week relating the problem being passengers fault for turning up too early (despite airlines telling them to do so) and finally saying he expected things to be back to normal by the end of June!!!! The end of June! So, until then, thousands upon thousands of passengers and the airlines will have to put up with this. I’ve no instant solutions but I’d appreciate just some indication that, other than waiting, the airport management were looking to find some temporary solution to ease things.
 

Aviador

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Travelled back from Belfast International yesterday afternoon, they have a very good set up there, LBA could do with taking a leaf out of their book!
As I said. LBA has the "leaves" just not currently the space for them.
 

LBAYORKIE

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I can see the attraction to the airlines LBAYorkie but it creates a 2 tier system. Those with baggage get preferential treatment are rushed through and off they go. Hand baggage passengers wait in line and miss their flight! What worries me is Mr Hodder‘s interview last week relating the problem being passengers fault for turning up too early (despite airlines telling them to do so) and finally saying he expected things to be back to normal by the end of June!!!! The end of June! So, until then, thousands upon thousands of passengers and the airlines will have to put up with this. I’ve no instant solutions but I’d appreciate just some indication that, other than waiting, the airport management were looking to find some temporary solution to ease things.
It would be two tier but must be better where the choice exists to usher pax through than to offload their bags. Sounds like its unfair already if Jet2 are calling customers forward from the queue and other airlines arent.
 

Seasider

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I don't know if this has been posted before, but they could ease the problem (not eradicate it) if passengers were not allowed to go through security more than 2 hours before departure.
If Mr Hodder is correct and people are turning up too early, this should help by placing a scanner at an appropriate position in the queue and not allowed to proceed unless it is not more than 2 hours from departure.

I don't know if this is feasible, but if possible, it would help to ease it.
 

LBAYORKIE

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Dec 30, 2009
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I don't know if this has been posted before, but they could ease the problem (not eradicate it) if passengers were not allowed to go through security more than 2 hours before departure.
If Mr Hodder is correct and people are turning up too early, this should help by placing a scanner at an appropriate position in the queue and not allowed to proceed unless it is not more than 2 hours from departure.

I don't know if this is feasible, but if possible, it would help to ease it.
I dont see why they couldnt manage that. One issue I can see is that people who have paid for a lounge might not be too happy.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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I am told following a post in the General thread, that checked in bags are loaded promptly. This means that if a passenger is stuck in the queue the bags have to be offloaded. Sorting through loaded bags takes ages and must result in delays to flights and also ties up staff that could be usefully used elsewhere.

I cant understand why the airlines dont just bring passengers to the front of the queue. I know that also takes resource but its got to be the better option. Also staff bringing pax to the front of the queue dont need airside passes so could be recruited and put to work quickly.

Checked in baggage is not loaded until around -60 before departure sometimes even later. This is because they collect the bags and put them in dollies allocated to the flight. What you are suggesting would mean that the bags for customers, would have to be crossed checked with the security list of how many and who has passed through security, to then load the bags on board. This would require a substantial amount of investment re: staff and would result in actually further delays than you think. If your doing this at -40 (standard check in closure time) you probably require a good 20/30 minutes to check all the bags, match names etc.

The standard procedure is to hand over the details from the gate staff with passengers name('s) the bag ID('s) and they go from there. When you check in there is a bag tag which at the end has 3 little stickers. One is stuck on a sheet - this sheet is then allocated a hold number beneath the aircraft, making it easier to locate the bag as they know which hold it is in.

As much as you thinks sorting through bags is a long process the ground handlers are used to it. It's a frequent event often within the industry due to no shows, medical passengers, people have a fear of flying and get off and finally everyones favourite - drunk and disruptive passengers. It's well oiled, annoying yes, but well oiled and the process works.

As for staff off other flights, it's all about planning resource wisely. Ryanair have 25 minute turn arounds so wouldn't effect the staff if they had a 20 minute delay for finding a bag for one Ryanair flight due out at 14:50 if the next AC they are on doesn't land until 15:35 and is a quick turn. Jet2 resource and man differently.

To work on an airport you need an airport ID. To work just Land-side you need a Land-side pass and that is just as tedious as getting an airside. So you've got employees/employers now waiting for staff to get airside passes whilst then further adding to the problem by splitting the team and having some now exclusively land-side pass. All this for something which, if the airport can sort it and quick, be resolved to an extent with more staff for security getting airside passes.

I also believe that a land-side pass means you cannot check in passengers etc. Don't ask me why and I could be wrong but again this would be a waste of resource.

It would be two tier but must be better where the choice exists to usher pax through than to offload their bags. Sounds like its unfair already if Jet2 are calling customers forward from the queue and other airlines arent.

That's a Swissport problem, which in turn is a Ryanair problem for cutting costs back, which in turn is a customer problem for demanding £10 fares to Alicante etc etc.

I don't know if this has been posted before, but they could ease the problem (not eradicate it) if passengers were not allowed to go through security more than 2 hours before departure.
If Mr Hodder is correct and people are turning up too early, this should help by placing a scanner at an appropriate position in the queue and not allowed to proceed unless it is not more than 2 hours from departure.

I don't know if this is feasible, but if possible, it would help to ease it.

How would this work for morning departures? Afternoon departures it would be fine, afternoon seems to be alright at the moment.

First ones are not out until 06:00 and on some weekend days, as I posted the other day, there was 14 before 07:20am. If you don't allow anyone through until -2 hours before that creates more influx of passengers at that magic moment (-2 hours). If the security guys are still dealing with the 06:00-07:00 passengers, the next lot will be added to the queue. Making the situation probably much worse.
 

LBAYORKIE

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Dec 30, 2009
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Thanks for the detailed response. I wasn't sure exactly how things worked 'these days'. What I was suggesting is that if a bag has been checked in (and loaded on a dolly) but there's no record of the passenger passing through security at the time at which the bag is to be loaded the passenger should be located and taken through security.
 

Aviador

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Thanks for the detailed response. I wasn't sure exactly how things worked 'these days'. What I was suggesting is that if a bag has been checked in (and loaded on a dolly) but there's no record of the passenger passing through security at the time at which the bag is to be loaded the passenger should be located and taken through security.
Just for clarification the system which is in place is used at all airports under governance of ICAO.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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Thanks for the detailed response. I wasn't sure exactly how things worked 'these days'. What I was suggesting is that if a bag has been checked in (and loaded on a dolly) but there's no record of the passenger passing through security at the time at which the bag is to be loaded the passenger should be located and taken through security.

Back in my day (hehehe I love that) we had access to the security system which gate staff have access too. This allows them to know how many have passed/scanned through. It’s important the terminal/security scan passes.

As a gate agent I would arrive -60 with the team. If I was leading that flight, first 4 things I would do are as follows. I’d check the details with the dispatcher, cross check the figure of checked in customers, check the figure of how many had passed through security (so I’m in the know of how many could be rushing to the gate last minute, at -60 usually around 10 down ish) and how many are online no bags so again I’ve got knowledge of how many would be turning up as I’m setting the gate up. It’s all about forward planning in aviation.

Further to this was checking how many gate pieces (prams, wheelchairs etc) where on board so I know how many I should be giving to dispatcher end of boarding process. I no longer work in the terminal.
 

LBAYORKIE

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Dec 30, 2009
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Back in my day (hehehe I love that) we had access to the security system which gate staff have access too. This allows them to know how many have passed/scanned through. It’s important the terminal/security scan passes.

As a gate agent I would arrive -60 with the team. If I was leading that flight, first 4 things I would do are as follows. I’d check the details with the dispatcher, cross check the figure of checked in customers, check the figure of how many had passed through security (so I’m in the know of how many could be rushing to the gate last minute, at -60 usually around 10 down ish) and how many are online no bags so again I’ve got knowledge of how many would be turning up as I’m setting the gate up. It’s all about forward planning in aviation.

Further to this was checking how many gate pieces (prams, wheelchairs etc) where on board so I know how many I should be giving to dispatcher end of boarding process. I no longer work in the terminal.
So what I suggest is possible then. If you know Mr Smith has checked in a bag but hasn't been scanned through security you can go look for him in the queue- which given the current situation is where he is likely to be.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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The logistics of doing so would make it impossible - you've got to dedicate 3/4/5 members of staff to the queue. Then another 2/3/4 to run passengers from the security exit to gates etc. That is a dedicated 8 staff members alone. That won't be accounted for in headcount for Summer. Meaning overtime will need to be offered - again I've previously said. It can be offered out but if it isn't taken then well it's just hours not filled. Staff not there. So one day you can make it work and look really good, the next day the airlines/ground handler struggles and looks crap because they don't have the staff filling the OT.

Add to that some security are, in my previous time there, some of the most miserable unfriendly people I've ever met (or power bloody mad. Yes I did tell one of them without airlines and therefore customers she wouldn't have a job once) this wouldn't make it possible. Not when their is a queue as we've previously seen out of the terminal having wrapped around where arrivals normally is.

What really needs to happen is this government pull it's finger out and make it easier to get airside passes. I read something on aManchester Facebook post from a ground handler that said they have 75 new recruits all ready to go but held at home due to the process. Add to that you've got security staff, other handlers, crews, staff for the shops/food outlets, etc you can imagine how many people are waiting.
 
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