Loganair

Jerry

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it has a government aviation strategy
It seems that their strategy is to do it on a case by case basis.
Easyjet were granted a loan. Virgin were told to resubmit.
I'd be very surprised if they didn't help Loganair. Firstly it's an important airline for intra Scottish connectivity to the highlands and islands. Secondly I don't think politically they can let Scotland's airline fall as it would become part of the argument for independence, nor do I think that they can let the Scottish government take the lead on any help again due to the Independence debate.

The problem will be for airlines like Eastern and Blue islands is would they be considered vital by the UK government in any way?
 

TheLocalYokel

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To me it was a bit of a worry about an airlines known for its Scottish Islands link, expanding rapidly post Flybe to various parts of the UK's domestic air market. Will the UK domestic air travel market be anything like it was before the Coronavirus, many of Flybe's routes were not always that busy way before the pandemic began.

It might be that a condition of any government help will mean Loganair scaling back operations.

Their CEO is making a virtue of his airline providing 'the lifeline services and essential UK regional connectivity upon which so many communities and customers depend'. That's certainly a reasonable argument when it comes to the Scottish islands and other remote locations, but routes from the UK to such places as Stavangar, Bergen, Esbjerg, Dusseldorf and Hannover are hardly within that category, neither are some intra-UK routes - a summer Glasgow-Newquay for example which is obviously aimed at the leisure market.

Loganair's owners made a pig's ear of European routes with their other airline bmi regional/flybmi, so why should the government be confident that they will do any better with adventures into mainland Europe with Loganair?
 

Rob c DSA

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May 27, 2017
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To me it was a bit of a worry about an airlines known for its Scottish Islands link, expanding rapidly post Flybe to various parts of the UK's domestic air market. Will the UK domestic air travel market be anything like it was before the Coronavirus, many of Flybe's routes were not always that busy way before the pandemic began.

It seems that their strategy is to do it on a case by case basis.
Easyjet were granted a loan. Virgin were told to resubmit.
I'd be very surprised if they didn't help Loganair. Firstly it's an important airline for intra Scottish connectivity to the highlands and islands. Secondly I don't think politically they can let Scotland's airline fall as it would become part of the argument for independence, nor do I think that they can let the Scottish government take the lead on any help again due to the Independence debate.

The problem will be for airlines like Eastern and Blue islands is would they be considered vital by the UK government in any way?
It's a valid point Carl re Loganair's rapid expansion I guess if they hadn't of tried who else stepped in, the loco's have killed the likes of Flybe and BMI off on the heavier routes they can make work with the 737 or Airbus 319/320 family but obviously don't want some of the thinner routes that would be lost with airline failures, it now looks like an even bigger hole could be left in some regional airports schedules if more carrier's go to the wall who don't have the safety net of a loco.

I meant a full government strategy post the pandemic Jerry for aviation going forward, the pandemic could effectively kill off some airports if carrier's do fail. The failure of Flybe and now this really has the potential to take down some of our smaller airports that rely on just 3/4 routes. That's why a full government strategy is needed to help the region's recover post virus and keep them connected to key destinations be it on these shores or major trading partners in Europe. Key airports like Amsterdam or Paris being connected to the UK regionally is still going to be needed that's why a Loganair need saving then connecting the whole of the UK together properly along with Europe. That's where a Loganair could be used to serve the region's that don't have say an easyJet or KLM on Amsterdam yes we go into the situation of slot restrictions and such but that would be an issue to tackle.

A do it right do it once do it fair strategy no Southern bias no route/rotation overkill just a system that is given the best chance to succeed for the UK as a whole aviation wise.
 

Coathanger16

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I wonder if there's any appetite for the government nationalising the smaller regional airlines to form just one UK-wide regional airline?

How many airlines do we have operating domestic routes in the UK?

Aurigny
Blue Islands
British Airways
Eastern Airways
easyJet
Loganair
Ryanair

The likes of Aurigny, Blue Islands, Eastern Airways & Loganair could all be brought under the same management/owner (UK Gov), but retain their own identities (keeps Scotland happy).

Allow the private airlines like BA and easyJet to operate whichever domestic routes they want, whilst the government owned national regional airline can serve routes that the private airlines won't.

If a private airline wants to operate a route that the national regional airline operates, the latter would give way to the private airline assuming the private airline operates the route to a certain minimum requirement. If the private airline ever drops below that minimum requirement they lose the rights to that route and the national regional airline takes over again.
 

Carl0927

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I wonder if there's any appetite for the government nationalising the smaller regional airlines to form just one UK-wide regional airline?

How many airlines do we have operating domestic routes in the UK?

Aurigny
Blue Islands
British Airways
Eastern Airways
easyJet
Loganair
Ryanair

The likes of Aurigny, Blue Islands, Eastern Airways & Loganair could all be brought under the same management/owner (UK Gov), but retain their own identities (keeps Scotland happy).

Allow the private airlines like BA and easyJet to operate whichever domestic routes they want, whilst the government owned national regional airline can serve routes that the private airlines won't.

If a private airline wants to operate a route that the national regional airline operates, the latter would give way to the private airline assuming the private airline operates the route to a certain minimum requirement. If the private airline ever drops below that minimum requirement they lose the rights to that route and the national regional airline takes over again.

I think certainly the time may well have come for the government to get involved with ensuring regions are linked properly by air, a domestic air policy if you will. This is particularly if their is no viable rail alternative,. With the costs to the country from the Coronavirus, cash to massively upgrade rail may just not be available anymore.
 

Jerry

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I think certainly the time may well have come for the government to get involved with ensuring regions are linked properly by air, a domestic air policy if you will. T
I don't think they ever will. Especially a Tory government they'll just leave it to the markets and if the regional airlines fall they fall with the exception of Loganair for political reasons. Tories tend to be vehemently anti public ownership of anything to do with the aviation industry. The Cardiff airport debate is an example of that. In their minds it or airports and airline's like it either make a profit or close.
 

Carl0927

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I don't think they ever will. Especially a Tory government they'll just leave it to the markets and if the regional airlines fall they fall with the exception of Loganair for political reasons. Tories tend to be vehemently anti public ownership of anything to do with the aviation industry. The Cardiff airport debate is an example of that. In their minds it or airports and airline's like it either make a profit or close.

Well its true they have little concept of a passenger service running to provide a service, as you say if it does not make a profit, thats it.....regardless.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Yes
At today's government press briefing the chancellor was asked if he agreed with former PM Tony Blair who said the COVID-19 economic damage to the country could be 'terrifying'. The chancellor replied that the immediate economic outlook is 'challenging' and that he can't guarantee that every job and every business will be saved.

It might well be that aviation won't be an exception and that not all airlines and possibly not all airports will survive into the post-COVID-19 era.

Nationalisation and the Conservative Party aren't usually comfortable bedfellows and the idea of a nationalised UK airline or group of airlines might not be the first option that this government might consider if, as seems likely, the industry will need a huge helping hand to overcome the effects of COVID-19.

Governments have let airlines and airports wither in the past. One example of the latter is Plymouth, an airport that served perhaps the largest remote city or town in the UK now without an airport. Its rail connectivity with the rest of the UK is dire - along the admittedly spectacular line through the foothills of Dartmoor and then via the south Devon coast taking an hour to reach the next major city at Exeter, 40 miles away. It has no motorway at all - the M5 from the Midlands ends at Exeter.
 

Finger66

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Looks like our chances of an LM LHR link have receded further as its reported elsewhere that they are moving the LDY - LON flights from STN to LHR
 

lbaspotter

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Looks like our chances of an LM LHR link have receded further as its reported elsewhere that they are moving the LDY - LON flights from STN to LHR

All is not lost yet, The are still a few Heathrow slots left to be allocated out of the 98+ weekly awarded to Loganair, But I wonder if they are holding onto the hope of wining the Newquay - London PSO Tender?

20+ Teesside
28+ Isle of Man
28+ Londonderry

76+ = Allocated.
22+ = Unallocated. (Possible Newquay PSO Tendered Route?)

Also don't forget Eastern Airways also have 22+ weekly Heathrow slots & 48+ weekly slots at London Gatwick still to be allocated..
 
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Finger66

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South Leeds
Not sure T3 would risk it on a commercial basis but LM do seem to have got big on NQY so that’s where my money is. Does potentially leave T3 some London slots to use for something!!
 
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