Flybe

[Jerry]

Someone in number 10 needs to take a serious look at what they can do to help. Who knows, that may just then make it viable for a new player to enter the market......................

Except they don't want to help. They earn a lot of taxes off it.
Also i don't see how Flybe can be blamed for falling domestic routes.

 

[Aviador]

Except they don't want to help. They earn a lot of taxes off it.
Also i don't see how Flybe can be blamed for falling domestic routes.

There will be no taxes to take at the rate domestic air services are declining.

 

[lbaspotter]

Flybe share price now down to 12.70p

Stobart Air reportedly incurred a loss of £18m according their half year report, so they are ending the Flybe Franchise flying. Jet operated routes are to be discontinued by the end of March 2019 whilst the ATR operated routes will be gone by March 2020.
I haven't a clue what Stobart Air are planning to do with the fleet of Embraer 195 and ATR72 aircraft. They have a number of options open to them, eg operate there own flights under the Stobart Air brand, move them onto the Aer Lingus franchise or look lease out aircraft/crews to other Airlines.

It also makes me wonder how long it will be before Flybe pull the plug on the Eastern Airways partnership given there poor reliability, and the OTP can’t exactly be helping Flybe name.

 

[Rob c DSA]

The majority of the UK's smaller carriers and the domestic network looks to be on thin ice at the minute.

 

[Bigman]

If only the Cross Country services from Southampton to Newcastle would run via Leeds instead of /as well as Doncaster, we probably wouldn't need a LBA-SOU service.

 

[michael]

So with the exception of FlyBe and BA who do we have on domestic UK routes? Ryanair and Easyjet I would think are 95% of the market, then the other minor players in the shape of what is left of BMI, Loganair and not much else. So with FlyBe struggling and BMI and Loganair being so small comparitively I'm wondering if Easy and Ryan actually make any money from UK domestic routes and if in fact these routes are being propped up by more profitable EU routes? If ever the day comes when FlyBe don't operate at all could / would Easy or Ryan step in? Or is it simply a case of their equipment is too big? Even tough the Dash8 is an ideal size purely the fact of it being a 'prop' goes against it, Jets are just that much more popular to fly on even if they aren't as efficient to run. For interest I'd be interested to know how, for example, Newcastle to Bristol does for easyjet with regards to numbers and yield.

 

[Jerry]

Ryanair and Easyjet

If they weren't making money from it they wouldn't operate the routes. If you look at most of their mainland domestic routes they tend to be London to Scotland with the exception of Easyjet at Bristol. Neither airline operates mainland domestic routes from Manchester where both are quite strong.

 

[Silvercity]

So with the exception of FlyBe and BA who do we have on domestic UK routes? Ryanair and Easyjet I would think are 95% of the market, then the other minor players in the shape of what is left of BMI, Loganair and not much else. So with FlyBe struggling and BMI and Loganair being so small comparitively I'm wondering if Easy and Ryan actually make any money from UK domestic routes and if in fact these routes are being propped up by more profitable EU routes? If ever the day comes when FlyBe don't operate at all could / would Easy or Ryan step in? Or is it simply a case of their equipment is too big? Even tough the Dash8 is an ideal size purely the fact of it being a 'prop' goes against it, Jets are just that much more popular to fly on even if they aren't as efficient to run. For interest I'd be interested to know how, for example, Newcastle to Bristol does for easyjet with regards to numbers and yield.

Easyjet do Liverpool to Belfast and IOM ( which is a very short hop for them). Easyjet have taken pretty much all the Belfast market, Flybe has just given up on it........again !

 

[Aviador]

If only the Cross Country services from Southampton to Newcastle would run via Leeds instead of /as well as Doncaster, we probably wouldn't need a LBA-SOU service.

That get's you there in an hour @Bigman ?

That's the thing Bigman, if you want (or need) given we're essentially talking about business flights, then you have to have a fast service so you can do a day return. If by a rail alternative your talking about a 4 - 6 hour treck, cross country then it's simply no good. Time is of the essence.

 

[Bigman]

If you fly, you need to allow 2 hours for checking in plus all the hassle of security. You then have a 1 hour flight on a noisy rubber band. When you get off at the other end you then need transport into Southampton.

The current 1 a day train 1O82 leaves at 06:16 and gets to Southampton Central at 11:17, so that’s 5hrs 1 min centre to centre. Bearing in mind there are USB and charging points, a businessman can actually do the best part of 5 hours work on a laptop + make calls if necessary and also have a few cuppas and spread their legs.

Once both Bristol and Edinburgh were improved to an hourly service, that pretty much killed off flights to those destinations for the same reasons. We also got a 2-hourly Glasgow central that pretty much saw those flights off as well.

Plus, if you hate flying and find the whole experience stressful, then the train is a no brainer.

 

[lbaspotter]

If you fly, you need to allow 2 hours for checking in plus all the hassle of security. You then have a 1 hour flight on a noisy rubber band. When you get off at the other end you then need transport into Southampton.

Only need 30 min check-in for a domestic flight, Oh and if you are business man you'll most likely have paid to park car next to terminal, Have fast track through security and be able to relax in one of the 3x lounges before you flight so to use you Laptop and wi-fi. Eastern has a block time of 1 hour 5 mins on the Leeds-Southampton flights but its normally done in less than 50 mins...

I see the spending more money on our crippling railways in London. As Kings Cross Stations is to be closed for whole weekends at a time in March, June, August and October 2019. It is also likely to be part-closed between Christmas 2019 and March 2020, along with temporary closures of platforms for two weeks at a time anticipated between March and May 2019, This will mean some Leeds to London LNER train services may have to terminate earlier at Peterborough and then a bus/coach ride into London.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...ail-passengers-travelling-to-london-1-9410523

Might as well just use #BritishAirways instead!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Even tough the Dash8 is an ideal size purely the fact of it being a 'prop' goes against it, Jets are just that much more popular to fly on even if they aren't as efficient to run. For interest I'd be interested to know how, for example, Newcastle to Bristol does for easyjet with regards to numbers and yield.

I don't know the yield on BRS-NCL but these are the annual passenger figures since 2008 in 000s, all easyJet:
202, 187, 166, 168, 171, 175, 174, 169, 165, 170. It's from 12 to 15 x weekly depending on season.

In the mid 'noughties' the service was 4 x daily with easyJet - now the most is 3 x daily on some days but single daily on some days in midweek, still with easyJet. When 4 x daily annual passenger figures were over 240,000. The hourly train service has had a detrimental effect even though the journey time is around five hours.

I used to travel on the easyJet service for day trips but now the schedule makes it impossible on most days.

 

[Bigman]

I don't see how Kings Cross comes into the equation when talking about Southampton!! Those trains go via Birmingham and Reading. I am sure that Midland Mainline will be rubbing their hands on the Leeds-St Pancras and will no doubt get a temporary extension of some Sheffield terminators to Leeds.

 

[Britannia94]

If only the Cross Country services from Southampton to Newcastle would run via Leeds instead of /as well as Doncaster, we probably wouldn't need a LBA-SOU service.

Problem with that is it takes the train on average 4-5 hours to travel from Doncaster to Southampton, so the times will be similar if it was moved to Leeds. Not ideal for your business travellers who want to fly down in a morning to make a 10am meeting in Southampton. Then again when you come to think about it, the current service offered by eastern airways isn’t the most reliable.

Think we just need to invent teleportation and have done with it

 

[Bigman]

Train still wins for me sadly, but that is just my preference.

 

[Aviador]

Plus only when people start talking about air journey times do they including all the extra time such as check in and travel times to the airport. Nobody ever seems to do that when talking about rail journey times. So no taking into acount the 45 minutes on a bus to get to the centre of town and no including the walk to the station as not all buses stop there?

Until rail can match air journey times on a point to point comparison, air will always be more favourable. Why this isn't proving to be the case has to be down to cost and convenience of flights.

As more and more companies are in a cost challenge, they will ask if the journey is necessary and if there is a cheaper alternative. For some business passengers the frequency of the flights might be a problem. For leisure passengers, a 4-6 hour rail journey isn't too bad when you can arrive whenever.

How can flying to Southampton be made more favourable?

• Increase frequency of flights
• Improve parking at airport
• Speed up terminal processes for domestic passengers
• Improve flight reliability
• Offer corporate incentives

 

[Finger66]

Any air service that is reliable and reasonably cost effective would work on something like LBA SOU. Unreliability was killing the T3 brand well before BE got hold of it but it might be a way of them removing a competitor to help their own survival. So with the recent JH interview posted elsewhere it continues to paint a bleak picture for UK aviation

 

[louis_walton]

I have noticed there has been a lot of advertisement recently for the Flybe Belfast route on the website and on social media. Maybe this is to try and boost passenger numbers so Flybe will up the capacity again.

 

[SNOWMAN]

or fill what they are offering now?

 

[White Heather]

My understanding from LBA sources is they have no real problem filling most of the seats they offer and the Belfast route is consistently a good performer for Flybe. A slight reduction over the winter isn't really a big deal - 3 times a day is still decent for the quietest months of the year.