TheLocalYokel

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Jan 14, 2009
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Yes
New York air route ‘could bring in £1m’ a year

The below link relates to a newspaper report published this week that has discovered a previously unseen report by an aviation consultancy firm that estimates a daily transatlantic service between Cardiff and New York would be worth £1 million a year to the Welsh economy.

The study was carried out four years ago on behalf of the Wales Assembly Government.

The study envisaged a 174-seat Boeing 757-200 aircraft operating daily throughout the year and estimated that over 109,000 passengers would use the service each year which I calculate as an 86% load factor throughout the year.

Support costs from the then Welsh Route Development Fund are estimated at £580,000 per year for the first three years.

Cardiff Airport management said that talks between it and Delta Air Lines for a daily service between CWL and JFK are ongoing and it "strongly believes" the plans could come to fruition though it says the "scale and nature requires participation beyond Cardiff Airport." I take this as code for support from the public purse.

A Delta spokeswoman said: “There are no current plans [for this route] on Delta’s schedule, but we are always open to reviewing new route opportunities.”

The deputy leader of Cardiff Council said, “Linking Cardiff and New York is a no-brainer, really. I think that’s the level we need to start pitching Cardiff at.”

The existence of this report certainly seems to have engendered a lot of enthusiasm amongst those with an interest in the fortunes of Welsh aviation and CWL.

But is it realistic - even if the Wales Assembly Government could find a way of using public money to fund such a route?

For a start the world economic situation is completely different from 2007 when the report was compiled.

The idea of a daily service throughout the year with an average load factor of 86% would be a fantastic performance from an airport serving a catchment such as CWL's.

Delta has been suspending its transatlantic JFK routes in winter from airports far bigger than CWL and with much larger and more prosperous catchments.

Continental doesn't operate daily in winter to Newark from BHX, a much bigger airport than CWL.

The only way such a route has a hope of achieving any sort of success is with a significant subsidy from public funds - in this case the Wales Assembly Government. But that would be the situation from many UK regional airports not currently featuring transatlantic scheduled services if they could get someone to underwrite the airline's costs.

The full story is at this link

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardiffonl ... -29923032/
 
It would be great to get a transatlantic route from this part of the world, but really in these economic times! Cardiff would be better off concentrating on developing a niche network of European routes before trying to take on the big players in the transatlantic market! I am sure the welsh public would rather any money spent on public services than supporting 100 or so people travelling to NY every day!
 
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If Bristol couldn't make it work, despite carrying up to 90,000 passengers per year to EWR but with a reduced schedule in winter, it's hard to see it achieving success at CWL with a smaller and less affluent catchment and a smaller business market.

I add the rider that a big injection of public money would be the only way it could see the light of day from CWL which its management obviously appreciates.
 
I could't agree more. There is no sense in wasting public money on services like this that are highly unlikely to work other than to satisfy somebody's ego.
 
'Time to act' on Cardiff-New York air link

Thursday, 16 February, 2012
Welsh Conservatives have called for renewed government efforts to assist in the creation of a direct Cardiff-New York air route.

Shadow Minister for Transport, Byron Davies AM, has written to the minister asking what direct action will be taken in the coming weeks and months. The call follows the publication of a previously unseen economic appraisal of the route, released under the freedom of information act late last year.

The document, written in August 2007, suggests the daily air link could add one million pounds to the Welsh economy every year in the wake of extra business and leisure visits.

It also claims support costs for the route would be approximately 580 thousand pounds a year and concludes that ‘the proposed Delta CWL-JFK service passes the Economic Appraisal’.

Mr Davies said:

“Continued claims from the government that discussions on new air routes from Cardiff are being monitored are not good enough. It’s time to act on an issue that has been stagnating for years.

“This report was produced in 2007 and its conclusion is clear. We should have seen concerted efforts from the government to act on that.

“A recent decline in international travel opportunities to and from Wales and a drop in passenger numbers have been of great concern. Ministers now need to sit down with airport officials and develop a clear strategy to stem the airport’s decline. A direct route to New York should be top of the agenda.

“There is now an annual government subsidy of over one million pounds for the north-south Wales air service. This report suggests support costs for a New York route would be substantially less, yet the economic benefits for Wales would be vast.

“That’s a disparity the minister needs to look at very carefully indeed.”

Source
http://www.welshconservatives.com/news/time-act-cardiff-new-york-air-link

Am I totally losing the plot?

The document in question was produced in 2007 when CWL at 2.1 million passengers as every other airport in the country were booming, but unfortunately we live in a completely different world now! There isn't and won't be for a very long time the amount of passengers needed to sustain a daily service to New York from CWL! BRS couldn't make it work as we headed into the downturn, and yes people might say the distance from LHR may of been a factor, but CWL being a little further down the M4 isn't going to make a difference!
Asking the Welsh government to subsidise a trans-atlantic route when cuts are being made to every part of Welsh life at the moment would be suicidal! South Wales relies heavily on the Public Sector which is where the cuts are going to be made, it is these same Public Sector workers who would normally have their annual holiday and probably fly from CWL! The figures speak volumes, CWL in 2007 - 2.1 million, 2012 - heading for 1.1 million, BRS in 2007 - 6.2 million, 2012 - 5.7 million, where has the nearly 1 million gone from CWL, certainly not BRS as they have lost 500,000! Economics are playing a huge part in the aviation world at the present time and throwing public money at it isn't the answer!

Rant over!

alphagolf
 
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I agree and can't add much to my post of 9 December above.

This is simply party politics with the 'pro' politicans making use of sound bites from the outdated and now irrelevant York Aviation report on the viability of such a route.

The York study was carried out when Wales had a route development fund which, ironically, was axed three months before the York report was published in August 2007 because the EU had significantly reduced the amount of financial help that could be used for RDF start-up routes.

Even with a RDF it was not legal to directly subsidise a route.
 
As a large part of this flight is with Delta Airlines i decided to put the review of my trip to Portland in here.
This is part 1.
I arrived at the airport about 04.15 for a 6.00 departure. I'd already checked in online and had my boarding pass and had already selected my seats. On the CWL-AMS flight it was 6F in Economy Comfort and on the AMS-PDX flight it was 26G in Main Cabin.
The check in process was a bit slower than usual. Although they had the 2 desks open 1 had been blocked by a family travelling to India. They had some sort of problem that was being dealt with by the check in staff. I did notice that with some people's luggage they went into waiting cages that some security staff had off to the side, i'm wondering now if they were subject to extra security checks, as my luggage went straight onto belt behind the check in desks.
After checking in I preceded to depart ures and went through security. There was only 1 security lane open and security was a bit slower than before. It seemed more thorough than before which is only a good thing in my opinion.
When in departures i got a quick bite to eat, bought some books and before i knew it 5.30 had come and the gate had been announced, it was Gate 4 as per usual and literally 20 mins after the gate had been called the doors of the aircraft had been closed and we were ready for takeoff. The flight to AMS was pretty uneventful the service was good. I paid extra for the Economy Comfort seat. Although the seat itself didn't seem any different from the Economy seats the leg room was more, next time even though i had a discount because i'm a Flying Blue member i might not bother paying for the extra for such a short flight.

The Ty Hafan Snowdogs beneath the Qatar Airways sign just before the entrance to departures.
snowdogs.jpg
Boarding KLM Cityhopper E175
klm1.jpg

Once we landed at Amsterdam after a 10 minute taxi i boarded the bus to D concourse and then made my way to the Delta Airlines pre flight area where they asked me a lot of security questions and then did a passport and ESTA check. They also have another area for E concourse as well and any passenger flying on a Delta Airlines flight has to go through these area it was at D1 and my gate was D2 so this time i only had a short walk.
There was a delay in boarding because when the 767 300 was parked on the stand it was parked wrongly so they had to park the aircraft properly so the jetbridge could be connected properly after that boarding preceded pretty smoothly.

Delta Airlines 767 300er parked at gate D2 after being re parked prior to boarding.
delta11111.jpg

The flight was about 10 hours 20 mins long and landed at PDX at 11.40 PDT instead of the scheduled 11.25 PDT. The seat i was in ok the leg room was decent for economy and the width was ok as well. I had a window seat but i did find that the wing provided a restricted view so next time i'll look to get a seat further forward or further back.

Passing over Greenland about 4 and half hours into the flight.
View attachment 6788

The service was pretty good as usual and I found the crew mostly friendly and the flight itself was mostly smooth. The food was decent with 3 snacks served and 1 main meal served the main meal i choose was Chicken and was decent enough with spinach and a potato gratin as well as a salad and a chocolate mouse. The white wine i had to accompany it was quite nice as well. I have noticed the pre landing snack has been changed, it used to be a wrap and ice cream but is now a small pie and ice cream, i had chicken and leek which was nice.
The landing was pretty smooth and the taxi to the terminal was pretty short. For the first time at PDX getting through immigration was slow. As i travel regulary on an ESTA that means i can go into the US citizen lane and use the automated machines, unfortunately they failed to scan my finger prints which meant i then had to fill in a card and go through the Foreign citizens lane and when i collected my baggage there was a long queue to get through customs. In all it took about 1 hour 20 minutes to get through both where usually it takes about half that time. In all with both flights it was a very good especially as my girlfriend was able to pick up me from the airport as that wasn't planned.
Just want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving!
 
My review of my return flight from Portland to Cardiff via Amsterdam with Delta Airlines and KLM.

My flight from Portland was at 13.25 and I got to the airport quite early, about 09.45 in the morning, i used Uber to get to the airport and they were quite quick in arriving at my girlfriends house in Gresham. The Uber driver was actually from Leeds but had lived in the US for 17 years so we had a good chat on the way to the airport!
Check in and security were pretty quick especially security for D and E concourse which was quite quiet. After getting through security i headed to D concourse and my gate in the international concourse part which was D11. On the way i had a nice breakfast and did some shopping for gifts for my family. PDX does have some decent shops but because of the layout you don't have to walk through them like in many UK airports. I passed the time waiting at the gate reading and had a bit of lunch and it passed quite quickly and before i knew it the aircraft had arrived. The aircraft from Amsterdam (a Delta 767 300er) arrived about 30 mins late so boarding was late but eventually got underway and I was able to board in the 2nd group because i was in Delta Comfort for this flight.
pdx1.jpg
The flight departed smoothly and took off in the direction of Gresham (heading to the East and practically over my girlfriends house as it's under the flight path) and I got a good view of Mount Hood off to my right as we climbed away and followed the Columbia river gorge. The flight itself was only about 70% full though the Delta One and Delta Comfort cabins were full.
pdx2.jpg
pdx3.jpg
View attachment 6924
View attachment 6927
I was seated in Delta Comfort for the first time on a long haul flight and i have to say it was worth the extra $134 i paid for the upgrade. The seat itself was pretty comfortable and there was plenty of extra legroom though unlike Air France's Premium product the seat didn't have a foot rest and wasn't a proper reclining seat. I was provided with a Comfort kit and a Menu but as far as the food goes i didn't see any difference from the food in economy on the flight on the way over but it was decent, I had a chicken and rice meal, then a sandwich for a snack and in the morning a continental breakfast box which was good and just after finishing that we passed Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds with the sunrise in the distance and then one of the flight attendants told me i'd missed the Northern Lights a couple of hours ago! Gutted!
After a 9 hour and 45 mins flight we landed at Amsterdam airport and taxied to gate E24 which for me was an absolute pain in the backside! Because of the 30 mins delay i got off the aircraft with about 20 mins until my gate closed for my flight to Cardiff which like most of the UK KLM Cityhopper flights departs from D6! So i had to run, jog and walk to D6 while dodging other people in the airport and managed to get to my gate with 2 mins till it closed and avoided an 8 hour layover in Amsterdam airport!
taxiing at ams.jpg
boarding at ams 2.jpg
Once i boarded the E175 (not a 737 as flight radar seems to be telling everyone it is now) we had to wait for 15 mins for pushback and had a quite long taxi to one of the far runway's but the flight was quite smooth with no problems. The flight itself from what i saw was about 80% full with the business cabin and economy comfort seats pretty well occupied. Our landing was coming in from the sea, in my opinion this is the best way as on clear days you get to see Cardiff and Barry beach. We landed smoothly and taxied to stand 9 and even though there was no e gates passed through immigration pretty quickly. The part where the E gates are was all boarded off for works. Because of my extremely short connection at Amsterdam my luggage never made it onto my flight but was brought in on the 16.45 arrival later in the day and was delivered to my house about 11 am the next morning. Coming through arrivals i used the new Costa Coffee booth and was then picked up by my father and went home!
View attachment 6928

I had a great Thanksgiving trip and a lovely time in Gresham and Portland with trips up to the snow of Mount Hood, a trip to the movies to watch Wonder (i'd recommend the film to anyone especially if you have children and it is really really funny as well as an excellent film) and a day out to the Pacific Ocean to the end of the Lewis and Clark trail and a very cold beach! Thanksgiving dinner was also wonderful as well.

P.S i tried to upload photos into this but it said they were too large so i will put them into the media gallery. Though i have linked 2 videos, 1 of takeoff at PDX and one of landing at CWL.
 
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Great report and super videos. Excellent view of Barry and its docks as you came into CWL.
 
Great report and super videos. Excellent view of Barry and its docks as you came into CWL.
Yes it is the best direction to land at CWL. Wasn't sure we were going to come in that way because we flew over the bridge and down the Severn rather than to the south of BRS like i've done with Flybe the last couple of times.
 
I'm so glad you had a good trip jerry and great videos. Portland is not too far from Seattle where my wife was a teacher for a six month exchange and we went on a second honeymoon there almost ten years ago. We have many friends in the area and would love to travel back there. Alas my wife has develop a fear of flying since we suffered severe turbulence on our way back from Seattle so it's a struggle to convince her to fly these days
 
Yes it is the best direction to land at CWL. Wasn't sure we were going to come in that way because we flew over the bridge and down the Severn rather than to the south of BRS like i've done with Flybe the last couple of times.

On days when traffic from the London area is using 30 the approach does often take it to the south of Bristol and almost over BRS. When I'm walking in the vicinity of BRS on a clear day I regularly see inbound traffic for CWL overhead.

The 747s heading for the BAMC are particularly noticeable because their size at such a relatively low height means it's impossible not to be aware of them, even if you're not interested in aircraft.
 
I'm so glad you had a good trip jerry and great videos. Portland is not too far from Seattle where my wife was a teacher for a six month exchange and we went on a second honeymoon there almost ten years ago. We have many friends in the area and would love to travel back there. Alas my wife has develop a fear of flying since we suffered severe turbulence on our way back from Seattle so it's a struggle to convince her to fly these days
I've flown through Seattle a few times on the way to Portland and back to the UK but neither me or my partner has ever actually been to the city itself despite their being about 30 flights a day between the 2 cities and it being a 4 hour drive. Hoping one day to take the girlfriend and her daughter to a Seahawks game there.
 
On days when traffic from the London area is using 30 the approach does often take it to the south of Bristol and almost over BRS. When I'm walking in the vicinity of BRS on a clear day I regularly see inbound traffic for CWL overhead.
Yep a few times i've seen BRS not so far away and EZY aircraft either taking off or landing.
 

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