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Plymouth City Airport
- Thread starter TheLocalYokel
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- #22
No surprise at all, echos of other recently closed airports.
Just to highlight why aviation consultancy firms can sometimes be biased check out the following links.
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Studies ... story.html
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/kc20_plymout ... rt.doc.pdf
https://mgmeetings.sheffield.gov.uk/CeL ... 05&A=1&R=0
Unfortunately I can't find the report by York Aviation into the future of SZD, however they somehow managed to draw a drastically different conclusion about PLH.. I guess it just shows that if you pay them they will find what you're looking for.
Regarding the closure and proposed redevelopment of these former city airports, I guess that's what happens when property developers get involved in the ownership of transport infrastructure. I don't know much about Sutton Harbour Holdings, but I seem to recall their proposal to build a Plymouth/Exeter airport.. Sounds familiar, though clearly their proposal didn't materialise.
Just to highlight why aviation consultancy firms can sometimes be biased check out the following links.
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Studies ... story.html
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/kc20_plymout ... rt.doc.pdf
https://mgmeetings.sheffield.gov.uk/CeL ... 05&A=1&R=0
Unfortunately I can't find the report by York Aviation into the future of SZD, however they somehow managed to draw a drastically different conclusion about PLH.. I guess it just shows that if you pay them they will find what you're looking for.
Regarding the closure and proposed redevelopment of these former city airports, I guess that's what happens when property developers get involved in the ownership of transport infrastructure. I don't know much about Sutton Harbour Holdings, but I seem to recall their proposal to build a Plymouth/Exeter airport.. Sounds familiar, though clearly their proposal didn't materialise.
TheLocalYokel
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- #23
Yes they will - in the same way as when, for instance, I hear the results of a survey in to smoking I always look to see for whom it was commissioned. If it was for the anti-smoking lobby the results will favour them; if for the pro-smokers the results will support their stance.
There were thoughts of a brand new airport in South Hams for the South West to replace EXT and PLH but this really died a death in the Labour Government's White Paper of over a decade ago. I'm not aware of SHH's possible involvement in that or similar schemes.
What did seem to take many by surprise in the region was a provision in SHH's lease from Plymouth City Council when it took on the airport operation that PLH could be closed by the operator if it became loss making. The so-called Armageddon Clause was an invitation to anyone who thought the land could be better used for something else to ensure the airport was loss making.
There were thoughts of a brand new airport in South Hams for the South West to replace EXT and PLH but this really died a death in the Labour Government's White Paper of over a decade ago. I'm not aware of SHH's possible involvement in that or similar schemes.
What did seem to take many by surprise in the region was a provision in SHH's lease from Plymouth City Council when it took on the airport operation that PLH could be closed by the operator if it became loss making. The so-called Armageddon Clause was an invitation to anyone who thought the land could be better used for something else to ensure the airport was loss making.
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- #24
Sheffield City Airport was subject to that very same clause, matters made worse by the fact that the company who took it on had other interests in the region.
What people fail to see is that an airfield of their size, in their locations, are far more about GA and access ability by businesses than just about scheduled flights. It is always possible to prove that an airfield is unviable, more so if the runway is too short to handle 737's heading out to the Costa's.
I'm amazed that there is no law in place to prevent such actions from taking place without detailed and thorough investigations by genuinely unbiased third parties.
What people fail to see is that an airfield of their size, in their locations, are far more about GA and access ability by businesses than just about scheduled flights. It is always possible to prove that an airfield is unviable, more so if the runway is too short to handle 737's heading out to the Costa's.
I'm amazed that there is no law in place to prevent such actions from taking place without detailed and thorough investigations by genuinely unbiased third parties.
TheLocalYokel
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It would certainly appear in the PLH case that no unbiased, disinterested scrutiny was required before the leaseholder could take it upon itself to close the airport on the grounds that it was losing money.
Perhaps even more astonishing is the fact that no-one not immediately involved appeared to realise the Armageddon Clause existed until it was activated. One would think that opposition councillors would have been more vigilant for starters.
A group calling itself Viable has been set up with the aim of having PLH reopened but I think it's unlikely to succeed unless public money is introduced to underwrite the operation. They are sincere people without a doubt but I can't help thinking that their heart is ruling their head. Good luck to them for all that.
http://www.viable.org.uk/
Perhaps even more astonishing is the fact that no-one not immediately involved appeared to realise the Armageddon Clause existed until it was activated. One would think that opposition councillors would have been more vigilant for starters.
A group calling itself Viable has been set up with the aim of having PLH reopened but I think it's unlikely to succeed unless public money is introduced to underwrite the operation. They are sincere people without a doubt but I can't help thinking that their heart is ruling their head. Good luck to them for all that.
http://www.viable.org.uk/
TheLocalYokel
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[textarea]Airport crawling with moss and weeds as row over its future rumbles on
As the row over the future of Plymouth City Airport rolls on, the building itself is looking worse for wear.
These up-to-date photos show weeds climbing up the walls outside, moss taking over the roof and dust gathering in what was the departure lounge.
It closed back in 2011 after passenger numbers fell to unsustainable levels.
On Saturday, The Herald reported that the latest plan to turn the site into a heliport, put forward by Sir Peter Rigby, founder of the Rigby Group which owns Exeter Airport, had been abandoned.
Councillor Maddie Bridgeman, a long-standing airport campaigner, told The Herald yesterday: “I think the site is being neglected and there should be a level of care there.[/textarea]
Full report at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Airport ... story.html
It looks a sad sight and sad site but may look worse than it actually is. I still believe that the commercial case for reopening PLH is weak. Its best ever year was 115,000 passengers through its terminal in 2009.
As the row over the future of Plymouth City Airport rolls on, the building itself is looking worse for wear.
These up-to-date photos show weeds climbing up the walls outside, moss taking over the roof and dust gathering in what was the departure lounge.
It closed back in 2011 after passenger numbers fell to unsustainable levels.
On Saturday, The Herald reported that the latest plan to turn the site into a heliport, put forward by Sir Peter Rigby, founder of the Rigby Group which owns Exeter Airport, had been abandoned.
Councillor Maddie Bridgeman, a long-standing airport campaigner, told The Herald yesterday: “I think the site is being neglected and there should be a level of care there.[/textarea]
Full report at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Airport ... story.html
It looks a sad sight and sad site but may look worse than it actually is. I still believe that the commercial case for reopening PLH is weak. Its best ever year was 115,000 passengers through its terminal in 2009.
TheLocalYokel
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[textarea]'Credible plan' to reopen Plymouth airport will be revealed next week, campaigners say
CAMPAIGNERS aiming to reopen Plymouth’s airport will take the issue national as they prepare to make a significant announcement about their plans to reintroduce flights.
Members of Viable, the company set up to re-establish an air link, are due to be interviewed by the BBC’s Justin Webb, in Plymouth, for Radio Four’s flagship Today programme.
They say the future of Plymouth airport, and regional airfields generally, is a potent election issue, particularly after recent offers by Heathrow and Gatwick airports to boost regional services in return for increased capacity.
And with Labour and Tory politicians looking at regional airports as key to economic regeneration away from the South East, Viable chiefs want to make a strong case for Plymouth.[/textarea]
Full article at: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Credibl ... story.html
Viable say that they will make an announcement next week after the General Election.
It's difficult to see how they can take things forward without a significant amount of public money The local authority has neither the resources nor probably the will to invest a substantial sum, and the UK government certainly won't.
It must be galling for PLH supporters to see the Scottish and Welsh governments come to the aid of the underperforming Prestwick and Cardiff airports respectively with serious amounts of public money. It's another example of England's regions being the poor relations around the UK.
CAMPAIGNERS aiming to reopen Plymouth’s airport will take the issue national as they prepare to make a significant announcement about their plans to reintroduce flights.
Members of Viable, the company set up to re-establish an air link, are due to be interviewed by the BBC’s Justin Webb, in Plymouth, for Radio Four’s flagship Today programme.
They say the future of Plymouth airport, and regional airfields generally, is a potent election issue, particularly after recent offers by Heathrow and Gatwick airports to boost regional services in return for increased capacity.
And with Labour and Tory politicians looking at regional airports as key to economic regeneration away from the South East, Viable chiefs want to make a strong case for Plymouth.[/textarea]
Full article at: http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Credibl ... story.html
Viable say that they will make an announcement next week after the General Election.
It's difficult to see how they can take things forward without a significant amount of public money The local authority has neither the resources nor probably the will to invest a substantial sum, and the UK government certainly won't.
It must be galling for PLH supporters to see the Scottish and Welsh governments come to the aid of the underperforming Prestwick and Cardiff airports respectively with serious amounts of public money. It's another example of England's regions being the poor relations around the UK.
TheLocalYokel
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[textarea]FlyPlymouth Vows to Reopen Plymouth City Airport Within Two Years
Campaigners have pledged to reopen Plymouth’s airport within two years and create a new airline bringing in passenger flights within three.
Members of the Viable group, set up to re-establish an air link to the city, outlined ambitious plans at a post-general election public meeting at the University of St Mark and St John.
They intend to create a social enterprise called FlyPlymouth which will reopen the facility and reintroduce passenger services.
They envisage daily flights to London as key.[/textarea]
Full article at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/FlyPlym ... story.html
It's a good headline but where they think the millions of pounds that will be needed to reopen and operate this airport are coming from is not made clear. There is a vague mention of a multi-million pound package that would be accessed later in the process but where the funding comes from to support this package is glossed over.
They are also relying on help from the transport minister based on encouraging words when he visited the South West just before the general election. He is reported to have said what you'd expect a senior politician to say when trying to gather support before an election. It seems to me that the people behind the venture are being naive if they really think that the transport minister will help out in a meaningful way.
I still wish them good luck and it would be marvellous if, against almost insurmountable odds, they really did manage to pull it off. I would not be putting money on their succeeding though.
Campaigners have pledged to reopen Plymouth’s airport within two years and create a new airline bringing in passenger flights within three.
Members of the Viable group, set up to re-establish an air link to the city, outlined ambitious plans at a post-general election public meeting at the University of St Mark and St John.
They intend to create a social enterprise called FlyPlymouth which will reopen the facility and reintroduce passenger services.
They envisage daily flights to London as key.[/textarea]
Full article at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/FlyPlym ... story.html
It's a good headline but where they think the millions of pounds that will be needed to reopen and operate this airport are coming from is not made clear. There is a vague mention of a multi-million pound package that would be accessed later in the process but where the funding comes from to support this package is glossed over.
They are also relying on help from the transport minister based on encouraging words when he visited the South West just before the general election. He is reported to have said what you'd expect a senior politician to say when trying to gather support before an election. It seems to me that the people behind the venture are being naive if they really think that the transport minister will help out in a meaningful way.
I still wish them good luck and it would be marvellous if, against almost insurmountable odds, they really did manage to pull it off. I would not be putting money on their succeeding though.
TheLocalYokel
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Full article at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Storm-f ... story.html
I remember that in 1993 a Cessna landed at the old Whitchurch Airport in Bristol (it closed in 1957) as it was short of fuel.
TheLocalYokel
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Campaign to reopen Plymouth airport attracts 'major financial backer' believed to have given £5m
A FINANCIAL backer has come forward pledging their support to get the airport back open - with £5million rumoured to have been made available to campaigners.
A member of Friends of Plymouth Airport said that FlyPlymouth, the group which wants to reopen Plymouth City Airport, had secured "a major financial backer" to support its bid.
The Herald understands the backer has promised close to £5million.
David Coles, a stalwart supporter of having the Roborough site reopened, told 50 people at a Plymouth MP's residents meeting that the money would help support FlyPlymouth's plan to have flights re-instated within the next year.
Full article at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Campaig ... story.html
I still think that this is a huge task but good luck to them if they think they can make a go of it. PLH is situated midway between Exeter and Newquay airports and I don't believe that the catchment there can support three airports.
In an ideal world there would be one airport for the south west peninsula sited in the Plymouth area. It's the largest city region and more centrally situated for the entire peninsula. Life, and especially the legacy of the UK's aviation history, is not like that though.
A FINANCIAL backer has come forward pledging their support to get the airport back open - with £5million rumoured to have been made available to campaigners.
A member of Friends of Plymouth Airport said that FlyPlymouth, the group which wants to reopen Plymouth City Airport, had secured "a major financial backer" to support its bid.
The Herald understands the backer has promised close to £5million.
David Coles, a stalwart supporter of having the Roborough site reopened, told 50 people at a Plymouth MP's residents meeting that the money would help support FlyPlymouth's plan to have flights re-instated within the next year.
Full article at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Campaig ... story.html
I still think that this is a huge task but good luck to them if they think they can make a go of it. PLH is situated midway between Exeter and Newquay airports and I don't believe that the catchment there can support three airports.
In an ideal world there would be one airport for the south west peninsula sited in the Plymouth area. It's the largest city region and more centrally situated for the entire peninsula. Life, and especially the legacy of the UK's aviation history, is not like that though.
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- #31
I could think of better things to spend £5m quid on.
TheLocalYokel
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http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/cru...-under-wraps/story-29977200-detail/story.html
It was expected that today would see the publication of a Department for Transport report regarding the future of Plymouth Airport (PLH) which was closed five years ago this month. However, the report was not published and there is no news as to when it will.
The BBC claimed to have seen a draft of the report earlier this year which suggested a £9 million subsidy would be needed.
However, FlyPlymouth, the company that is endeavouring to have the airport re-opened claims that a subsidy would not be needed as services would be viable without one.
It was expected that today would see the publication of a Department for Transport report regarding the future of Plymouth Airport (PLH) which was closed five years ago this month. However, the report was not published and there is no news as to when it will.
The BBC claimed to have seen a draft of the report earlier this year which suggested a £9 million subsidy would be needed.
However, FlyPlymouth, the company that is endeavouring to have the airport re-opened claims that a subsidy would not be needed as services would be viable without one.
TheLocalYokel
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Looks unlikely now that Plymouth Airport will reopen
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/low...y-to-re-open/story-29989189-detail/story.html
The DfT study on the airport's future has now been published.
It says that there is insufficient demand from passengers and the constricted site means that the type of aircraft is limited. It believes that operating the airport would present a serious commercial risk.
It's no real surprise given the runway length in particular. Furthermore, with airports at Newquay and Exeter there isn't the catchment for a third. In an ideal world there would be one airport for the South West peninsula sited in the Plymouth area. It's central and possesses the largest population. We know though that the UK is littered with airports in the 'wrong' place often too small and/or with poor surface connectivity.
The organisation trying to reopen the airport says it will not give up but, realistically, unless a mega rich individual or organisation comes forward to subsidise the airport and run it as a loss-making hobby I believe we've seen the last of PLH as an airport. it's very sad, as it is when any airport closes, but that's life.
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/low...y-to-re-open/story-29989189-detail/story.html
The DfT study on the airport's future has now been published.
It says that there is insufficient demand from passengers and the constricted site means that the type of aircraft is limited. It believes that operating the airport would present a serious commercial risk.
It's no real surprise given the runway length in particular. Furthermore, with airports at Newquay and Exeter there isn't the catchment for a third. In an ideal world there would be one airport for the South West peninsula sited in the Plymouth area. It's central and possesses the largest population. We know though that the UK is littered with airports in the 'wrong' place often too small and/or with poor surface connectivity.
The organisation trying to reopen the airport says it will not give up but, realistically, unless a mega rich individual or organisation comes forward to subsidise the airport and run it as a loss-making hobby I believe we've seen the last of PLH as an airport. it's very sad, as it is when any airport closes, but that's life.
TheLocalYokel
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- #34
http://www.flyplymouth.com
PLH came up in a discussion about NQY today. Rather than go off topic for too long in the NQY thread this is the PLH thread for anyone who wants to take the discussion further.
A glance at the above link to FlyPlymouth, the organisation that is trying to have PLH reopened, will show that there is a hard-working group of people, some with a professional aviation background, trying hard to have the airport put back into operational use.
The next stage will be later this year when a government inspector holds an enquiry into Plymouth City Council's wish to reserve the airport site for general aviation purposes until 2031. The airport leaseholder and last operator, Sutton Harbour Holdings, wants to develop the site for housing.
FlyPlymouth accepts that the airport is in the game for 30-50 seater aircraft but believes that this and general aviation would make the airport profitable. Its runway is 1,000 metres long. When PLH was open the largest passenger aircraft that used it regularly were 50-seat Dash 8-300s.
PLH came up in a discussion about NQY today. Rather than go off topic for too long in the NQY thread this is the PLH thread for anyone who wants to take the discussion further.
A glance at the above link to FlyPlymouth, the organisation that is trying to have PLH reopened, will show that there is a hard-working group of people, some with a professional aviation background, trying hard to have the airport put back into operational use.
The next stage will be later this year when a government inspector holds an enquiry into Plymouth City Council's wish to reserve the airport site for general aviation purposes until 2031. The airport leaseholder and last operator, Sutton Harbour Holdings, wants to develop the site for housing.
FlyPlymouth accepts that the airport is in the game for 30-50 seater aircraft but believes that this and general aviation would make the airport profitable. Its runway is 1,000 metres long. When PLH was open the largest passenger aircraft that used it regularly were 50-seat Dash 8-300s.
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- #35
I wonder if Loganair could be a contender for them with GLA, especially considering the naval bases that are close to each city.
TheLocalYokel
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Certainly an option if the airport did reopen. I don't think the chances are high of PLH coming back to life as an airport though, unless a significant amount of public money can be found which is unlikely. Seems to me it would be a risky venture for private investment.
Then again if a major local business or businesses (perhaps the owner of The Range chain) decided to chance their arm with investment who knows?
Is there enough passenger traffic for three airports in the South West though? Some will argue that Plymouth is the largest city and conurbation in the region and if EXT and NQY can survive and prosper (as they are doing) why shouldn't Plymouth have a slice of the action?
cmj
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There is probably also the argument that EXT and NQY may be prospering because PLH has closed. If PLH re-opens you dilute the passengers too much so you end up with three struggling airports instead.
TheLocalYokel
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In an ideal world there would be one airport for the South West situated in the Plymouth area; it's more centrally located and the largest conurbation. South Hams was mooted 10-15 years ago and in its 2003 White Paper The Future Of Air Transport the then British Government took no view on it as it had not formed part of the consultation leading to the white paper. Instead they were content to leave the matter in the hands of regional and local authorities.
Like you I don't believe there is enough demand for three airports in the region. As with other airports that are in the wrong place (BRS is a prime example in the West Country) we are where we are and no doubt stuck with it.
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The Plymouth area local authorities have published a Joint Local Plan (JLP) that looks at how the area will develop in future years.
The JLP includes safeguarding the PLH site for five years and proposals that remove key airport infrastructure will not be permitted. This includes:
1. Main Terminal Building.
2. Runway 13/31 (asphalt), within Code 2 grassed runway strip and RESAs.
3. Airport Apron (situated between the main terminal building and taxiway Charlie).
4. Maintenance Hangar.
5. Engine Testing Bay.
6. Fire Station.
7. Fire Training Facility.
8. Control Tower.
9. Fuel Storage Facility.
10. Navigation and Visual Aids.
11. Approach Lighting (both within and outside of the airport boundary).
12. The runway and areas for aircraft to taxi.
Full article at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/wha...tually-means/story-30468698-detail/story.html
The JLP includes safeguarding the PLH site for five years and proposals that remove key airport infrastructure will not be permitted. This includes:
1. Main Terminal Building.
2. Runway 13/31 (asphalt), within Code 2 grassed runway strip and RESAs.
3. Airport Apron (situated between the main terminal building and taxiway Charlie).
4. Maintenance Hangar.
5. Engine Testing Bay.
6. Fire Station.
7. Fire Training Facility.
8. Control Tower.
9. Fuel Storage Facility.
10. Navigation and Visual Aids.
11. Approach Lighting (both within and outside of the airport boundary).
12. The runway and areas for aircraft to taxi.
Full article at http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/wha...tually-means/story-30468698-detail/story.html
TheLocalYokel
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https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/make-break-battle-over-fate-1144457
Plymouth's Joint Local Plan is currently being scrutinised by two government planning inspectors. Their inquiry will consider the airport land tomorrow where SHH, the leaseholders, want to build a £200 million garden suburb on the airport site.
Plymouth's Joint Local Plan is currently being scrutinised by two government planning inspectors. Their inquiry will consider the airport land tomorrow where SHH, the leaseholders, want to build a £200 million garden suburb on the airport site.
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