Filton Airfield - General Thread

[TheLocalYokel]

[textarea]Hangar is just too big for Concorde museum

A historic hangar at Filton airfield has been virtually ruled out as a new Concorde museum – because it's too big.

Heritage Concorde Tech, which wants to see the supersonic plane return to the skies, believes the hangar would be the ideal place to house Concorde as well as the Bristol Aviation Collection which is currently at RAF Kemble.

Steve de Sausmarez, founder of the group who lives in Leamington Spa, said: "Concorde 216 G-BOAF was the last Concorde built anywhere in the world, and of course the very last one to fly in November 2003.

"During her final flight she flew back to her birthplace, to Filton to form a major part of a new planned Bristol aviation museum.

"The plan was to house the whole of the Bristol Aviation Collection, known as the BAC, in one building, a centre to celebrate Bristol's incredible aviation history, and let us not forget that Bristol led the world.

"But like so many things in this fast changing world, ideas and directions soon change and as in this case not for the better.

"With next year's closure of Filton airfield, one incredible heritage building stands at risk of being ripped down and lost forever, the Brabazon Hangar.

"So why not use this building as the centre of the history of Bristol's aviation and space industry, and in memory of the man who started it all, Sir George White.

"It's large enough to form one of the most incredible museums in the world; it would be able to house the whole BAC collection with Concorde 216 at the centre, where she was built. This idea needs to be looked into and not dismissed so easily by the people leading the effort for the new museum."

But the Evening Post has learnt that the Concorde Trust, a registered charity which was set up to create a museum for the plane, has all but ruled out the gigantic hangar – which housed the production line for the first Concorde built at Filton – because of its sheer size.

The maintenance costs would be overwhelming, let alone the heating costs for the huge structure.

The hangar can also only be reached by driving through the Airbus factory which means that any visitors would have to be bussed from an off-site car park.

Oliver Dearden, chairman of the Bristol Aero Collection, said: "It's an iconic building but it's extremely big – you could easily get six Concordes in there, let alone one.

"The size alone creates problems with running and maintenance costs but the other big problem is that there is no public access.

"Visitors would have to be taken by coach from an off-site car park which would not be a very suitable arrangement in the long term.

"I don't think any idea should ever be ruled out completely but I think it would be more prudent to pursue the other options."

The trust won planning permission for a site near the end of the runway, close to the back of the Vue Cinema at Cribbs Causeway but a £2.9 million funding bid to the Heritage Lottery Fund was turned down. Since then, it has emerged that the airfield's owners, BAe Systems, wants to close it down at the end of next year which raises questions about its future.

The 350-acre site would provide enough room to build between 3,000-3,500 new homes, making an estimated net profit for the company of about £120 million.

But South Gloucestershire Council, the local planning authority, has made clear one of the conditions if the airfield was redeveloped, would be to "secure the Concorde museum and the long-term legacy of aviation at Filton".

The council has now closed its consultation exercise over the future of the airfield and council officials are currently drawing up a report to put before councillors.

The Brabazon Hangar, which is currently not in use, is being marketed for sale or rent by BAE Systems.

A spokeswoman for the company said: "The hangar has been most recently used for the maintenance and painting of aircraft.

"It's now available for sale or let and we are in discussions with a number of interested parties."

The hangar covers a total area of 405,000 sq.ft but the actual hangar space is 250,000 sq. ft.

The shopping area at Sainsbury's supermarket off Winterstoke Road covers 50,000 sq ft while Asda Walmart is nearly 100,000 sq. ft.[/textarea]
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Hangar-j ... story.html

I am amazed at the suggestion that this iconic building could be demolished. In the immediate post-WW2 decades Bristol's council acted like an urban vandal and allowed numerous buildings to be pulled down and lost forever, many of which would be saved in today's more enlightened environment.

It's beyond belief that the Brabazon Hangar is not a listed building if, as the report suggests, that is the case.

Filton, though within the Bristol urban sprawl, is outside the municipal boundary and in the area of the South Gloucestershire Unitary Authority.

That authority has done some daft things in the past too but it's good to know they've imposed a condition on any airfield redevelopment that secures a Concorde museum and the long-term legacy of aviation at Filton.

 

[Bigman]

Why was Fitlon never developed as the main Bristol airport? Railway running right past it (and through it I gather), and the M4 and M5 very close. Longer runway than Lulsgate too.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Why was Filton never developed as the main Bristol airport? Railway running right past it (and through it I gather), and the M4 and M5 very close. Longer runway than Lulsgate too.

That's a question that regularly occurs in the local press letters column whenever local aviation is in the news.

As you say, Filton seems ideally placed to be an important regional airport site - with the M4/M5 interchange less than two miles away, the main London/Bristol to South Wales railway line passing close by with a station at Patchway just up the road and a branch line (currently freight only though it used to be passenger as well) running through the site from Filton to Avonmouth.

It's a bigger site than Lulsgate, though it's now shrinking as parts are being sold for housing development, has a longer runway at 2467 metres/8094 feet compared with Lulsgate's 2011 metres/6600 feet (and one of the widest in the country at 91 metres/300 feet), a much lower field elevation and fewer weather problems.

So why didn't Filton become Bristol's airport?

In the 1950s the Bristol Corporation (as Bristol City Council was called then) the owners of Bristol's airport, which was at Whitchurch on the southern edge of the city and had been the primary wartime UK airport for links with neutral Europe and the Republic of Ireland, came to the obvious conclusion that it was too small and constricted for further development - somewhat ironic in the face of problems at Lulsgate in later years.

Legend (it may be true) has it that the then owners and occupiers of Filton airfield, Bristol Aeroplane Company (BAC), offered its use at a peppercorn rent as Bristol's airport but the Corporation wanted to purchase their own property, perhaps fearing a clash betwen the needs of the owner/occupier and that of an airport, so in 1957 opened their brand new facilty on the site of the wartime RAF Lulsgate Bottom - sounds vaguely Shakespearean.

Of course, in those days there was no M4 or M5 and little thought that there would be.

Lulsgate was fine for twenty years as it meandered quietly along but as its traffic began to grow in the late 1980s and leap forward in the early 2000s its shortcomings were clear for all to see.

In the mid 1990s Bae applied to turn Filton into a city airport but there were many objections to this, including unsurprisingly a protest from the owners of Bristol Airport (still Bristol City Council at that stage) - Filton is in the neighbouring South Gloucestershire unitary authority area. A public enquiry ensued after which the application was rejected.

Filton's chance of becoming Bristol's airport is now dead in the water. Even if the runway was kept open the site has shrunk considerably because of non-aviation development and it is in the midst of the urban sprawl, particularly on its approach from the east. At the other end is the regional shopping centre at Cribbs Causeway.

It's fascinating to speculate how busy Bristol's airport would now be if Filton had been chosen instead of Luslgate all those years ago. It's not fanciful to suggest it would be handling at least 10 mppa by now.

Lulsgate is currently just under 6 mppa and has planning permission to expand to 10 mppa, assuming this in not overturned by the current judicial review application by objectors.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It's been reported in the past that Filton Airfield is to close as an operational airfield at the end of 2012 though the aviation-related industries in and around the site will remain.

In fact, part of the site was sold off some time ago and houses are already being built there.

When the runway ceases to operate the long term plans are for a mix of housing and industry over much of what is still an extensive site.

However, an interesting new development has been reported today.

Gloucestershire County Cricket Club is now looking at part of the site build a brand new state-of-the-art international cricket ground there.

The club has recently been rebuffed by Bristol city planners in its attempt to upgrade its existing ground in the north Bristol suburbs and there was talk of it moving from the city region entirely, perhaps to the city of Gloucester.

At least playing at Filton would mean the club's headquarters would be in Gloucestershire - well almost. Filton is in the unitary authority of South Gloucestershire, a largely urban area that joins Bristol (you can't see the join) but the unitary authority, though not in Gloucestershire proper, is regarded as being in the county for ceremonial purposes.

Bristol is neither in Gloucestershire nor Somerset - it's in the County of Bristol and has been since 1373 and has its own lord lieutenant.

A problem for Gloucestershire CCC in Bristol is the lack of a general close affiliation with the county of Gloucestershire - I've suggested in the past that it should change its name to Bristol County Cricket Club but that went down like a lead balloon. Many cricket lovers in the city support Somerset CCC (as I do), a county that's also played home games on Bristol grounds in the past.

If Filton Airfield has to close - it looks now that it will - it would be pleasant to think that another tradition takes its place.

 

[tleeds]

Surely if the runway and airfield operational material were to be removed, then the aviation business' around would struggle to cope...?!

I think the problem with the Bristol County Cricket Club idea was that people don't really associate Bristol as being a county, more a city including the surrounding suburbia. I didn't know that Bristol actually had it's own county, which is probably the most universal problem, and I think people tend to think that if it has 'shire' at the end, it is more applicable to being associated with a county, obviously with numerous exceptions.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Filton doesn't manufacture complete aircraft any more.

Based in and around the site are Bae Systems - the airfield owner with mainly research and development at Filton; Airbus with engineering and design and some manufacture; MBNA - missiles systems with software and systems engineering at Filton; Rolls Royce - military engines and Marine Division; GKN Aerospace - research amongst other things.

There is also a huge Royal Mail centre on the site but, interestingly, there's never been Royal Mail flights from Filton except for one winter when the BRS runway was being resurfaced at night in 2006/7 and in the mid 1990s for a similar reason.

Nearby also is the giant MOD Procurement Centre with over 7,000 workers which is conveniently in close proximity to Filton with its military work.

Filton was once a general MRO facility as well and it did need a runway for that of course, but that work has been wound down gradually in recent years with the likes of Bae Systems Maintenance business ceasing to operate, MK Airlines maintenance (a major item) finishing when MK went bust and Air Livery transferring to Manchester three years ago.

Things like the Bristol Aero flying club (I think it still operates at Filton - there is another flying club at BRS), air taxis, the police helicopter and the regular Airbus industry flights to Toulouse and Broughton (currently operated by bmiRegional) will obviously be affected. No more landings in the Bristol area by A380s either - they've been fairly frequent visitors to Filton for tests etc and several times have flown over the city to show themselves to the populace.

Filton is a microcosm of the UK aviation industry stetching back over a hundred years from the WWI Bristol Fighter, WWII Blenheims and Beaufighters, post-WWII Brabazon and Britannia, Concorde and the A380, though the last one was never put together at Filton.

The airfield was also a dispersal site for Vulcan bombers during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 (reportedly the nearest we've come to World War 3) when the aircraft were lined up at instant readiness presumably armed with nuclear weapons.

As for Bristol, I think some locals aren't aware of the county status either. A lot of people still believe Bristol is in Avon. When it was (Avon only lasted from 1974 till 1996) Bristol lost its separate county status but regained it on Avon's abolition.

Another thing about the area is that the city of Bristol only covers about two thirds of the physical unbroken urban area which gives Bristol an official population of about 430,000. The physical city, as opposed to the municipal one, has a population of around 650,000 plus the satellite suburbs and towns.

I hope you've taken all this in, tom, because I shall be setting questions on it later. ardon:

 

[tleeds]

Thanks for the informative reply TheLocalYokel

I'm going to own up, and I even thought Bristol was still in Avon.... show's how much the vast majority of people really know...

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Some locals aren't sure either and when you still have bodies such as the Avon and Somerset Constabulary and Avon Fire and Rescue it's no wonder.

The old Avon area is sometimes known as CUBA (the County that Used to Be Avon), Greater Bristol (Bathonians love that!) or the West of England, and South Gloucestershire around Filton and Patchway is often called North Bristol or the North Bristol Fringe in the local press.

No wonder people are confused.

I've gone right off topic now though, so I'll stop.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Diversion

Cardiff Airport was badly affected by fog this afternoon and evening causing several inbound flights to divert to other airports, including the Manx2 from Anglesey into Filton.

Sadly, with the Filton runway to close at the end of the year that option will disappear.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Vulcan flypast

Acknowledgement to ray finkle for the information, this coming Saturday (weather permitting) Vulcan XH 558 will undertake a flypast of sites that have played important roles in the aircraft's development to mark the Diamond Jubilee of the first flight of the prototype. Timings are not yet to hand.

Filton has certainly been involved with Vulcans in a number of ways down the years, not always without some alarms.

In 1960 a Vulcan approached the airfield in heavy rain and aquaplaned on reaching the runway. The pilot managed to get the aircraft back into the air but only just cleared the airfield boundary fence. In so doing the blasts from its four Bristol Siddeley Olympus engines destroyed a petrol station on the A38 immediately to the east of the runway and scattered cars using this major road. The airfield boundary steel fence was wrecked.

A year or two later a Vulcan was being used as a flying test bed for a new series of Olympus engine. It was parked and power was increased to maximum when a turbine disc flew out rupturing fuel tanks that set the aircraft ablaze along with a fire engine parked nearby. Both were destroyed. Remarkably, no-one was seriously injured in either of these incidents.

At time of the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962, the V-bombers were dispersed and a number of Vulcans deployed to Filton in readiness for what many thought at the time would lead to World War 3, including it was later disclosed many leading figures in the Kennedy Administration in the USA. There can be no doubt that the Vulcans were armed with nuclear weapons which would have been used.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The Filton runway will close in two week's time. BAE Systems have taken the opportunity to donate £2.4 million and land for a museum to house the Concorde that has been stuck by the side of the Filton runway for the past nine years.

G-BOAF (hull 216) the last Concorde built at Filton and the last ever Concorde to fly (November 2003) was the one that most people expected would be the one to take to the air again if any British Concorde ever did. Years of neglect make that extremely unlikely now.

Last year Airbus donated nearly £1 million to the Concorde museum planned for Filton. It will also contain the Bristol Aero Collection but a lot more money is still needed if the museum is to become a reality.

The newspaper report below gives the impression that the scheme is nearing the starting blocks. That's not quite the case.

[textarea]More than a hangar for city's Concorde

The embarrassment of seeing the Bristol Concorde standing alone and unprotected beside the runway from which she first flew will soon be over.

The announcement which we reported yesterday that BAE Systems is providing the land and £2.4 million towards a museum for Concorde means she will no longer be left to decay.

It will also mean there will be a home for the Bristol Aero Collection currently housed at Kemble.

Admittedly that is still two years away. and will require a fresh application to the Heritage Lottery Fund.[/textarea]
Full report at http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/hangar-c ... story.html

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Last A380 at Filton

With the Filton runway due to close at the end of this month, though the aviation-related activities at the site will remain, the airfield received its last ever visit from an A380 today.

The type has been seen regularly at Filton in recent years in connection with test flights and the like and has been a familiar sight in the skies around Bristol.

Today a 380 took a group of Filton employees for a flight around the West Country.

I believe that it also carried out another low level flypast at Bristol Airport. I saw one of these flypasts last year at BRS and it was an impressive sight as it looked as though the aircraft was going to land (of course it's much too big to do so) before pulling out of the approach for a low level fly-past above the runway.

102 years of aircraft using Filton is about to end.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/VIDEO-Ai ... story.html

 

[Aviador]

It seems like madness closing the Filton runway with airports in other parts of the country crying out for new runways. Is it going to be maintained in a mothball state for future use or is this the complete and final end for Filton?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It seems like madness closing the Filton runway with airports in other parts of the country crying out for new runways. Is it going to be maintained in a mothball state for future use or is this the complete and final end for Filton?

No, that's the end.

The local authority wants to use it for housing - part of the site is already under brick and mortar.

The aviation-related industries will carry on - there just won't be any aircraft coming and going.

BAE Systems, the owner, says it's not viable to keep the runway open.

Lots of people in the area believe it should be Bristol's airport. It sits on a bigger site than Lulsgate, has generally less trying weather conditions, a longer runway, the M4/M5 junction is about a mile away and the main Bristol/London to South Wales railway line is also very close with a branch line (Filton-Avonmouth) actually passing through the site.

Bristol's economy is based primarily on the central areas and the northern fringe where apart from the thousands of aviation industry workers who are employed in what is known as North Bristol (though much is in the contiguous urban area of South Gloucestershire), other important employers there include the MoD Procurement HQ with over 7,000 employee, Sun Life (or Friends Life as it now is I believe), Hewlett Packard and the very large University of the West of England HQ and main campus.

South Bristol which abuts Lulsgate is an employment desert with some of the poorest city wards in the country.

So Bristol really did get it very wrong all those years ago with its airport choice but few if any then could have predicted how regional air travel would grow over the next fifty years.

These days the nimbys would be in full voice if an airport at Filton was proposed (it won't be, it's much too late) because Filton lies adjacent to a far more built-up locality than Lulsgate.

Had Filton become the new Bristol Airport in the 1950s when Whitchurch closed who knows what it might be like now?

The city council owned Whitchurch Airport and wanted to own its replacement which they decided would be the former wartime RAF Lulsgate Bottom. Going to Filton would have meant being a tenant of the then Bristol Aeroplane Company (BAC) and the subsequent owners. Problems might have arisen not least regarding the investment needed to become a proper airport.

BAE itself applied to turn Filton into a city airport in the mid 1990s but after a public enquiry the relevant government minister (Selwyn Gummer I think) rejected it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

That's it!! Filton runway now closed for ever.

Filton was used by aircraft for the last time today after 102 years during which time it's been home to Bristol Fighters, Beauforts, Beaufighters, Blenheims, one operational prototype Brabazon, Britannias, Concordes and A380s, not to mention nearly every type of aircraft you can think of via flying schools/clubs and MRO.

Here is a selection of aircraft that used Filton for the last time.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/pictures ... tures.html

The very last aircraft to depart appears to be Cessna Citation G-CGEI en route to Gloucester - this aircraft: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?c ... gmark=CGEI

BAE Systems announced today that the Filton site has been sold to Bridgehouse Capital for a believed £120 million and that it will be turned into housing and commercial development.

Although a crowd turned up to witness the last rites BAE systems made no occasion of it and according to the local radio this morning would not even speak to local news hounds. Instead they issued a brief statement.

A very sad and low key end to an airfield believed by many to be the birthplace of British aviation.

The irony is that after WW2 a small village (Charlton) was completely demolished so that the runway could be extended to accommodate the Brabazon - at the time the largest passenger aircraft in the world though it never flew in revenue service. The village site will now be returned to housing in the future.

 

[Aviador]

Very sad. I understand the location isn't ideal to warrant using it as extra capacity for the South of England. Needless to say Bristol airport will have significant room for growth before there are any capacity issues there. I think my main point was it seem so difficult to build new runways these days, it just seems wrong to close them completely.

As for the sale of the airfield, do you mean Bridgepoint Capital as opposed to Bridgehouse Capital?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

As for the sale of the airfield, do you mean Bridgepoint Capital as opposed to Bridgehouse Capital?

It's Bridgehouse Capital, not Bridgepoint Capital the owners of LBA.

 

[Aviador]

Thanks TheLocalYokel I wasn't sure if it was a typo. There are many people up here that would joke about turning LBA into a housing estate. My eyes opened wide when I read "The Filton site has been sold to Bridgehouse Capital for a believed £120 million and that it will be turned into housing and commercial development." :s_omg

 

[pug]

It is sad. Filton gone, Brough soon (though not been fully open for years), Holme on Spalding Moor, Hatfield, Bitteswell, Dunsfold.. Im probably missing some, but all now gone.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Now that Filton is closed for ever to operational aircraft after 110 years of continuous use the below link contains a report, old pics and a video of a scrapped Spitfire that has been rebuilt at Filton for a businessman.

It flew for the first time since the 1940s, from Filton just before the runway was closed for good. The video depicts its first flight since being put back into an airworthy condition. Not so welcome in the video are the sight of some of the new houses that have been built since part of the aerodrome was sold off a few years ago.

There will now be many hundreds more.

An almost certainly unique gathering of a Spitfire, a Concorde (G-BOAF) and an A380 contributed to the excitement yet great sadness of the day.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... corde.html