KLM

[Bob O'JOb]

LBA's one remaining full service airline (you could make a case for EI) cutting back is bad news, but hardly surprising given it's burgeoning reputation as a bucket & spade/low cost airport. As long as the 114 passengers on the E190's are replaced by 189 or whatever going to Alicante/ Malaga/Ibiza, the airport will see it as a win. They're not bothered about prestige, or connections or registrations that you can write in a special notebook. It's bums on seats that they're interested in. They gave up on full service when they allowed the WFS/Servisair/Swissport hangar to close, wiping them off the TACT map.

 

[CM.]

LBA's one remaining full service airline (you could make a case for EI) cutting back is bad news, but hardly surprising given it's burgeoning reputation as a bucket & spade/low cost airport. As long as the 114 passengers on the E190's are replaced by 189 or whatever going to Alicante/ Malaga/Ibiza, the airport will see it as a win. They're not bothered about prestige, or connections or registrations that you can write in a special notebook. It's bums on seats that they're interested in. They gave up on full service when they allowed the WFS/Servisair/Swissport hangar to close, wiping them off the TACT map.

I think the airport are bothered about connections since we keep hearing that they’re wanting LHR link back and others along with more domestic routes.

 

[gulftraveller]

I do not think the criticism of LBA as an LCC airport is fair, when we are talking about KLM. LBA has shown its strength as an IT airport and that is what makes money for the airlines. Nothing wrong with that. The KLM decrease is much more likely down to issues in AMS.

But I do not see any major increase in legacy carriers at UK regionals. The time is wrong.

 

[Aviador]

Codswallop. We used to have the same conversation about flights to Tenerife when LBA only had a couple of flights a week.

 

[White Heather]

LBA's one remaining full service airline (you could make a case for EI) cutting back is bad news, but hardly surprising given it's burgeoning reputation as a bucket & spade/low cost airport. As long as the 114 passengers on the E190's are replaced by 189 or whatever going to Alicante/ Malaga/Ibiza, the airport will see it as a win. They're not bothered about prestige, or connections or registrations that you can write in a special notebook. It's bums on seats that they're interested in. They gave up on full service when they allowed the WFS/Servisair/Swissport hangar to close, wiping them off the TACT map.

If you think LBA are not interested in connections, or flights to hub airports, you are totally wrong.

LBA have on many occasions sought an upgrade in service from KLM. They won't be at all happy to see the opposite. Only at last week's Consultative Meeting they were explaining the virtues of flying via Dublin to the states using Aer Lingus, and they have never stopped trying to secure a return on the Heathrow route, either with BA or now, possibly with Loganair as a BA code share. Various other routes that would better suit the business fraternity are on their list of priority destinations that they are talking to airlines about, not at just this years' route fair but at every route fair. The problem has been the impact on the industry of the pandemic, airlines such as Flybe going bust (twice) and other airlines who might be interested cutting back and reluctant to expand into new airports in new routes. Mainstream flag carriers such as Turkish expect better facilities than LBA can provide, but that will change shortly. And Wizz are certainly not a bucket and spade airline. Neither are Buzz.

The LBA CEO has specifically stated that the airport needs to secure more of this type of traffic so as to provide a more balanced offering to both business and leisure travellers. Frankly your statement couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Bigman]

How many actually now need to use KLM to get where they need to be? We have such a plethora of European routes these days such as Bucharest which is just pushing back off stand as I write.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

How many actually now need to use KLM to get where they need to be? We have such a plethora of European routes these days such as Bucharest which is just pushing back off stand as I write.

If you consider KLM's European network the number of direct routes from Leeds in comparison is pretty insignificant (except to holiday destinations). Of course they also have a excellent medium and long haul offering. The choice is often KLM or a direct flight from Manchester.

 

[Bob O'JOb]

If you think LBA are not interested in connections, or flights to hub airports, you are totally wrong.

LBA have on many occasions sought an upgrade in service from KLM. They won't be at all happy to see the opposite. Only at last week's Consultative Meeting they were explaining the virtues of flying via Dublin to the states using Aer Lingus, and they have never stopped trying to secure a return on the Heathrow route, either with BA or now, possibly with Loganair as a BA code share. Various other routes that would better suit the business fraternity are on their list of priority destinations that they are talking to airlines about, not at just this years' route fair but at every route fair. The problem has been the impact on the industry of the pandemic, airlines such as Flybe going bust (twice) and other airlines who might be interested cutting back and reluctant to expand into new airports in new routes. Mainstream flag carriers such as Turkish expect better facilities than LBA can provide, but that will change shortly. And Wizz are certainly not a bucket and spade airline. Neither are Buzz.

The LBA CEO has specifically stated that the airport needs to secure more of this type of traffic so as to provide a more balanced offering to both business and leisure travellers. Frankly your statement couldn't be further from the truth.

The airport shill speaks, so it must be true.... But it's all fairly basic stuff, they have to big up what little full service they have left, all the rest has gone so if they're not seen to support it then what little remains will go even quicker, and be under no illusion it's going. By the time the £100m lean to opens there'll be 12-18 months left on the KLM route, Aer Lingus who knows, that might go even quicker due to the nature of the Emerald set up. Nice one on the Wizz/Buzz ( I like how you called them that, why not split Wizz Malta/Hungary to make it look like even more carriers that aren't bucket and spade?) differentiation, not bucket and spade no, but certainly low cost, no connections etc etc. They go in with bucket and spade lot rather than legacy. Just accept the airport for what it is, it's a holiday/low cost airport, it's going to skew more that way than the other, there's no going back. The airport know this, everyone in the industry knows this, there's just you LBA fanboys clinging to the vision of Emirates dreamliners parked on the pier next to Lufthansa A320's and Turkish 737's (Turkish won't happen either btw, best you can hope for on Istanbul is Pegasus or possibly Ajet, who might actually offer connections to south asia). Nothing wrong with being holiday low cost orientated, look at Luton (waits for someone to say BUT WHAT ABOUT EL AL??), just accept it for what it is, a regional airport punching above it's weight in the low cost market.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

The airport shill speaks, so it must be true.... But it's all fairly basic stuff, they have to big up what little full service they have left, all the rest has gone so if they're not seen to support it then what little remains will go even quicker, and be under no illusion it's going. By the time the £100m lean to opens there'll be 12-18 months left on the KLM route, Aer Lingus who knows, that might go even quicker due to the nature of the Emerald set up. Nice one on the Wizz/Buzz ( I like how you called them that, why not split Wizz Malta/Hungary to make it look like even more carriers that aren't bucket and spade?) differentiation, not bucket and spade no, but certainly low cost, no connections etc etc. They go in with bucket and spade lot rather than legacy. Just accept the airport for what it is, it's a holiday/low cost airport, it's going to skew more that way than the other, there's no going back. The airport know this, everyone in the industry knows this, there's just you LBA fanboys clinging to the vision of Emirates dreamliners parked on the pier next to Lufthansa A320's and Turkish 737's (Turkish won't happen either btw, best you can hope for on Istanbul is Pegasus or possibly Ajet, who might actually offer connections to south asia). Nothing wrong with being holiday low cost orientated, look at Luton (waits for someone to say BUT WHAT ABOUT EL AL??), just accept it for what it is, a regional airport punching above it's weight in the low cost market.

Some of what you say is true, LBA is undoubtedly mainly a LCC/Holiday destination airport, but isn't it the case that most airports are biased towards leisure travel these days? Some have a better mix of business focused flights than others, that's the only difference.

It always surprises me how loud the voice of objectors is at Leeds, given that the mantra has always been to reduce business travel. By objecting to LBA they are hitting ordinary working people, not only in terms of restricting their holidays but also in the creation of jobs and revenue for the local economy and furthermore migrating those benefits to neighbouring airports.

I do think LBA want to address the business/leisure imbalance and I wish them all the best in attracting new carriers. I genuinely believe there is scope given the size of the business sector in our area, especially Leeds. A lot depends of course on whether new carriers are prepared to facilitate Yorkshire travellers or continue to expect them to use their services out of Manchester.

I think the airport will continue to grow, they seem to have a team led by a very competent and experienced CEO, so for the convenience of Yorkshire travellers, jobs and the local economy I wish them the best of luck.

 

[Jerry]

The airport shill speaks,

You may disagree with White Heather but can you please keep the conversation respectful. Thank you.

 

[White Heather]

You may disagree with White Heather but can you please keep the conversation respectful. Thank you.

In case anyone isn't aware of the meaning of 'shill', which is what Bob O Job called me today, here is the definition.


Promoter: A shill can make a sales pitch or serve as a promoter.

Credibility: A shill can publicly help or give credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with them or have been paid to do so.


It seems that Bob O Job has no clue what my role is as a member of the Airport Consultative Committee. That is to attend the quarterly meetings, as I have for the past 35 years, and it is a prerequisite that members relay to the groups or organisations they represent in the committee - in this case the LBA Support Group and all who consider themselves to be supporters of the only Commercial airport in Yorkshire.

That's what I have been doing on F4A now since 2009. In that time I have always reported exactly what the various airport executives have told the committee, which is minuted (although these days, minutes have descended into what are more like a few pertinent notes). As I am expected to do, if members on F4A, for whatever reason, choose to make statements that conflict with what the Committee is told, then I wouldn't be doing my 'job' if I just sat there and didn't point out the reality.

Over the years, despite my best intentions, I have been called a few things on here, some personal, some obnoxious and as many will know I have come close to quitting because frankly, I'm sick of the hassle. I did ask if anyone else would like to take over from me and attend the Committee to keep the Support Group going and maintain the access to information directly from the airport. Not a single person put their hand up.

However, being labelled a ' shill' is potentially libellous in my view given one of it's meanings is that I promote LBA without declaring my relationship with them or that I receive payment for doing so. That crosses the line. End of . It's not just a matter of respect, it's making a comment that is blatantly untrue.

This used to be a friendly forum with light hearted banter and discussion, not a bridge under which pro DSA or anti LBA trolls lurk who are here only to stir up trouble.

So, once again, I ask if anyone in this forum is prepared to take on the role of attendee at the LBA Consultative Committee in my place, in order to maintain the Support Group's presence. It would be a shame to lose that source of information. However, candidates need to be prepared to attend all, or most of the quarterly meetings, and to be prepared to be the target of insults from some who ideally need to grow up.

On the plus side, you do get to find out what's actually happening at LBA, and you do get to park on the LBA car park free when attending a meeting saving a whole £20.

 

[Len Fish]

Looking at previous posts from Bob ‘O JOb (who has only been a member for 3 months) they appear to be a supporter of DSA and only on here to run LBA down. Sad but predictable I’m afraid.

 

[ChrisBBB]

In case anyone isn't aware of the meaning of 'shill', which is what Bob O Job called me today, here is the definition.


Promoter: A shill can make a sales pitch or serve as a promoter.

Credibility: A shill can publicly help or give credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with them or have been paid to do so.


It seems that Bob O Job has no clue what my role is as a member of the Airport Consultative Committee. That is to attend the quarterly meetings, as I have for the past 35 years, and it is a prerequisite that members relay to the groups or organisations they represent in the committee - in this case the LBA Support Group and all who consider themselves to be supporters of the only Commercial airport in Yorkshire.

That's what I have been doing on F4A now since 2009. In that time I have always reported exactly what the various airport executives have told the committee, which is minuted (although these days, minutes have descended into what are more like a few pertinent notes). As I am expected to do, if members on F4A, for whatever reason, choose to make statements that conflict with what the Committee is told, then I wouldn't be doing my 'job' if I just sat there and didn't point out the reality.

Over the years, despite my best intentions, I have been called a few things on here, some personal, some obnoxious and as many will know I have come close to quitting because frankly, I'm sick of the hassle. I did ask if anyone else would like to take over from me and attend the Committee to keep the Support Group going and maintain the access to information directly from the airport. Not a single person put their hand up.

However, being labelled a ' shill' is potentially libellous in my view given one of it's meanings is that I promote LBA without declaring my relationship with them or that I receive payment for doing so. That crosses the line. End of . It's not just a matter of respect, it's making a comment that is blatantly untrue.

This used to be a friendly forum with light hearted banter and discussion, not a bridge under which pro DSA or anti LBA trolls lurk who are here only to stir up trouble.

So, once again, I ask if anyone in this forum is prepared to take on the role of attendee at the LBA Consultative Committee in my place, in order to maintain the Support Group's presence. It would be a shame to lose that source of information. However, candidates need to be prepared to attend all, or most of the quarterly meetings, and to be prepared to be the target of insults from some who ideally need to grow up.

On the plus side, you do get to find out what's actually happening at LBA, and you do get to park on the LBA car park free when attending a meeting saving a whole £20.

The negative voice is always the loudest unfortunately, and with added nastiness even more so.
I do hope that you are fully aware of the appreciation we all have for your information, knowledge and passion for the airport.
But insults aside - I also think Bob O’Job (I can think of other things that rhyme) is talking absolutely twoddle. He is by all means an exception to the rule, I think the positives you described this group as still stand out, for the very most part of course.
And thanks for attending the meetings, to be able to articulate yourself so well, along with all the other attribute such as time and effort in attending the meetings probably rules out most of the rest of us, I for one am grateful and sure I speak for the rest of the group

 

[ls27]

Quite frankly we can do with out Bob O'Job. He's not been long on here and perhaps he should not be on much longer. White Heather has done an outstanding job keeping us informed about what is going on at LBA for a long time now She has also given us much technical advice over the years as well by using her work place knowledge. I know from experience in my other activities that trying to keep people informed is a thankless job. So WH please still keep us informed and you BOJ if you can't stop insulting Her bugger off

 

[White Heather]

ChrisBBB & LS27, thank you. Much appreciated.

 

[Finger66]

As I am sure you have all noticed I have been very quiet recently, again due to a conflict of opinion, but what I have just witnessed from @Bob O'JOb has forced me out of retirement, albeit briefly. His/her (or whatever pronoun they wish to use) comments are totally unacceptable and this forum would not be the same without @White Heather. I think we all know whose side the vast majority are on and I feel it would be good if all of you who are supportive of WH and feel @Bob O'JOb is a disgrace actually make your feelings known

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Quite frankly we can do with out Bob O'Job. He's not been long on here and perhaps he should not be on much longer. White Heather has done an outstanding job keeping us informed about what is going on at LBA for a long time now She has also given us much technical advice over the years as well by using her work place knowledge. I know from experience in my other activities that trying to keep people informed is a thankless job. So WH please still keep us informed and you BOJ if you can't stop insulting Her bugger off

Im not sure closing his account is the right thing to do, but given he's not a long standing or respected member I dont think any heed should be taken of his shill comment. Im glad WH clarified what it meant by the way, Ive heard the word but didnt know what it meant!

 

[White Heather]

As I am sure you have all noticed I have been very quiet recently, again due to a conflict of opinion, but what I have just witnessed from @Bob O'JOb has forced me out of retirement, albeit briefly. His/her (or whatever pronoun they wish to use) comments are totally unacceptable and this forum would not be the same without @White Heather. I think we all know whose side the vast majority are on and I feel it would be good if all of you who are supportive of WH and feel @Bob O'JOb is a disgrace actually make your feelings known

Thank you Finger66, much appreciated, and nice to see you back,.hopefully not so briefly.

 

[Aviador]

The user in question has revisited since this morning and hasn't made any attempt to correct himself. So for that reason he has been given some temporary leave from the forum. Hopefully enough time for the soap to work as he washes his mouth out.

 

[Jerry]

This used to be a friendly forum with light hearted banter and discussion, not a bridge under which pro DSA or anti LBA trolls lurk who are here only to stir up trouble.

Everyone here is passionate about aviation and there local airports and we all need to respect that ahd not insult each other. We can have debate and discussion but need to refrain from making it personal.