What are you reading now ?

[Kevin Farnell]

Why is it not possible to preserve the essence of the mind?

That's an enormous question, Jenny. I'm assuming you mean to keep the mind alive after we pass.
Firstly, what is the mind?
But before that, we should ask what is consciousness and where does it reside? We believe that consciousness is a product of the brain, but whilst Scientists know how the brain functions (i.e. billions of connected neurons that communicate with electrical signals), we have no real idea as to how consciousness arises. I've heard that some Scientists don't believe that we are truly conscious and claim that brain scans show impulses microseconds before we make a conscious decision. I don't agree with that, but I don't know how to explain consciousness. But I believe that without consciousness, we would not have personality and only respond to external stimuli.
I've also heard it said that animals are not conscious (although not recently, it seems to be a dated view). I'm sure as a dog 'owner' (I'm never sure that I like the term 'owner' for pets, it's more like a partnership of two independent beings who share a home and life), you will completely agree that dogs are conscious and have personalities. Before my Sister emigrated, she had a lovely white German Shepherd named Emma. She was a very gentle natured dog and one evening at my parents house (a large bungalow with gardens on three sides), I was out with her, She ran off around the corner of the house, so I dropped down low about 2 feet from the corner. A few moments later, she re-appeared to see where I was. At that point, I jumped up with my arms in the air and yelled 'Raaahhhh!'. She ran off, her claws scrabbling on the paving slabs. I again dropped down and shortly a nose and then eyes cautiously appeared. I again jumped up with the same result. She loved it and we went on like this until it got too dark to see. She seemed disappointed when I decided it was time to go indoors. Sorry for the long example, but it clearly shows that Emma understood the game and was having fun. For that she must be conscious.
Getting back on track, how could we 'preserve the essence of the mind'? I've seen and read many Sci-Fi examples where people's minds are uploaded to computers (an example being Rimmer from Red Dwarf, who is a hologram and his personality is kept 'alive' by the spaceships computer).
If it ever became possible to upload a mind to a computer, what would we have actually uploaded? We could program the computer so that it responds in a similar way to the personality to that person. But what of the mind? would consciousness still be there, or would it just be a representation of how the person was?
These are just my thoughts and I freely admit that I know little about brain research. I still think we have a long way to go before we understand the mind and consciousness, but perhaps when we do, there may be a possibility of preservation of the mind.

Kevin

 

[JENNYJET]

I think, perhaps believe you are venturing into theology. A delicate subject as I, as mentioned elsewhere, am a member of the Ecclesiastical Law Society.

Are your questions perhaps a medical enquiry?

 

[Kevin Farnell]

I think, perhaps believe you are venturing into theology. A delicate subject as I, as mentioned elsewhere, am a member of the Ecclesiastical Law Society.

Are your questions perhaps a medical enquiry?

Although I'm a Catholic (and I'm far from the best one!), I wasn't thinking of a Theological reason. If I had (and I did think about it), I would have included the Soul. However, I thought that would bring in too many other factors. I don't consider Theology as a delicate subject, but I do realise that it is polarising between believers and non-believers.
Yes, what I was considering can be considered a medical enquiry, but I was thinking more along Scientific lines (typical of me). 'What is consciousness?' is something that I often ponder. How does it arise? When does it arise? Does a brain (assuming that is where consciousness resides) reach a certain size (or rather brain size to body size ratio - Sperm Whales have one of the biggest brains on the planet, but they can't rival Humans for ingenuity) and then suddenly 'light up'? What is this 'ghost in the machine'?
I suppose to look at in in another way is to consider computers. We have been building more and more complex and faster computers for decades and some of the programs can be shown to 'learn'. But do they have a consciousness? A mind? If not, is there a complexity/speed of a computer that will in the future show evidence of consciousness? (That might have frightening implications for the Human race).
If consciousness is something that can be both biological and non-biological, if so can we switch between the two? If so (and it's a very big 'if'), we could thus preserve the mind beyond the biological body.
There are already examples where volunteers with brain implants can control prosthetic limbs via thought, but there is still a mountain to climb before these are routine.
Again, just my rambling thoughts and I do not consider myself anywhere near well educated in the subject.

Kevin

 

[JENNYJET]

Kevin, my Leige, you clearly demonstrate a mind that cuts to the chase, I was venturing my thoughts towards the preservation of high value thought, Einstein and Galileo being examples. I have attempted, in my past, to engage with religion, A recent dalliance with the Pentecostals and an ingrained affiliation with Judaism. No success thus far. I once thought that a diety would be the guiding entity, the overwhelming power etc. but my personal recent ill health disavowed such notions. I once considered Catholicism, my mother being a papist with an attitude, but an enquiry resulted in a rejection.

No, life to me remains a biological certainty, we live and die, that is life.

 

[Poshgirl]

Not sure how relevant this is to the preceding discussion but here goes....

Many years ago, whilst temping at a Child Protection Unit, we had a lunchtime chat about the Bible. A group of females, varying ages and religions (practising and lapsed). Not just Admin, social workers included too.

Starting with what we liked to read, it progressed to whether any of us had read the Bible, out of curiosity or to find some logical explanation for events in their lives. We then applied modern day thinking to how it would be marketed. Are the stories true (non-fiction) or the product of someone's fertile imagination (fiction)? The different views were interesting. It was obvious that religious beliefs played a part in interpretation. Being respectful, one questioned how water could be turned into wine. Was it someone's special powers (as displayed by mediums) or the "slight of hand" used by magicians?

We then moved onto topics like out of body experiences, visions, sixth sense. There have been accounts of near death experiences. Are these real, is the critically ill person's mind seeking a final desperate attempt to live? Do they really find answers when discussing with a psychologist? I have a friend who has an inbuilt sixth sense. To him, it's just a normal part of who he is. Where has this come from?

As for computers, we know they're only supposed to be as good as the human who programmes them. The logical explanation there seems to be a programme which contains scenarios (the known and the unknown). Stopping there because I don't know enough about the subject.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

I was venturing my thoughts towards the preservation of high value thought, Einstein and Galileo being examples.

I suppose that in some way, the thoughts of these great Scientists (and many others) Have been preserved through their Scientific publications (I'm actually a Scientific author myself, but nowhere near the level of those you mention) and laboratory notebooks. A few years ago, the PhD thesis of Prof Stephen Hawking was made available on-line for download. I simply had to have a copy, but freely admit that much of the maths contained in it was way over my head.

Kevin

 

[JENNYJET]

It would be interesting and perhaps an honour to read your paper Kevin, to perhaps understand where you are intellectually, meanwhile I am engaged with Mary Beard and her book SPQR ( Senatus PopulusQueRomanus ) the Senate and the People of Rome, an insightful examination of the Roman Empire, a subject I am fascinated with. With my academic interest in Law, I find much of Roman Law of relevance given that most of modern Europe adheres to it whilst in UK we adhere to Common Law along with Statute.
I am currently studying Jurisprudence and Constitutional Law on a remotely delivered course with Harvard University, purely for my personal interest but it comes with a grand post nominal together with rights conferred by the US Bar association according to the residents state.

The difference is minor, mostly procedural. I link this post to my recent entry to the music thread.

 

[Scottie Dog]

I must admit to doing limited reading at present,. I have so many magazines to catch up on so, today it is a back issue of Canal Boat, and that will be followed by the October-December 2021 copy of Airline Business.

Sad, but not dead.

 

[Seasider]

I am into Edward Marston's Railway Detective series and reading Iron Horse at the moment.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

It would be interesting and perhaps an honour to read your paper Kevin, to perhaps understand where you are intellectually

This is a list of my publications to date -

Synthesis and Anti-HCV Activity of 4’-Sustituted Nucleosides
American Chemical Society Fall Meeting,
San Francisco, September 10, 2006

5-(Hydroxymethyl)oxazoles: Versatile Scaffolds for Combinatorial Solid-Phase Synthesis of 5-Substituted Oxazoles
Urszula Grabowska, Adriana Rizzo, Kevin Farnell and Martin Quibell
Journal of Combinatorial Chemistry, 2000, Vol. 2. No, 5, 475-490

Antitumour 2-(4-aminophenyl)benzothiazoles: shall I COMPARE thee?
T.D. Bradshaw, S. Wrigley, A. Murray, K. Farnell and M.F.G. Stevens.
E.O.R.T.C. Pharmacology and Molecular Mechanics Group.
Conference Communication.
Munster.
Germany.
15th January 1997

Flavones and Quinazolinones as potential inhibitors of Tyrosine Kinases
I.L. Dale, K. Farnell. P.W. Groundwater, J. A. Hickman and K. Solomons.
Cancer Chem. Pharmacol., 24 (supplement 2) 1989, S87.

The most significant, being the second one listed linked below -

5-(Hydroxymethyl)oxazoles: Versatile Scaffolds for Combinatorial Solid-Phase Synthesis of 5-Substituted Oxazoles

(it may be heavy going for not familiar with Organic/Peptide Chemistry)

After this , I moved to Manufacturing Process Development Chemistry from which there are no research papers.

Kevin

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I am into Edward Marston's Railway Detective series and reading Iron Horse at the moment.

I've read most, possibly all, of Marston's Railway Detective books and many of his other books that feature other regular main characters in various historical settings.

I don't find him a great writer in his ability with words, his descriptive narrative and certainly not in the dialogue of those who people his books, but somehow once begun his books are difficult to put down. They are very light and pleasant to read when it's not the day to concentrate on something heavier. He's one of those writers who make me think "I could do that" but I couldn't.

 

[Seasider]

He and his wife, another novelist, gave a talk at the recent Beverley Literature festival and I found it very interesting how they develop their writing.

You are quite right TLY, they are easy reading - suits me fine - but the books are very difficult to put down. Mindst you, I am "permanantely on holiday" so don't have too much to do during the day, apart for reading this forum.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Beer by Roger Protz - 1995

This was bought for my 32nd birthday by my Parents (it's signed in the front), but other than looking up various beers, I've not got around to reading it until now. It's utterly fascinating. I had no idea, how much more complex brewing was compared to wine making. Every aspect of the ingredients is critical to the type of beer you want to produce. For instance, soft water and cold fermentation is essential for Lagers, while hard water and warm fermentation is required for Ales. Not to mention yeast type, malting and how much hops to add.) Then, there are a whole range of beers in-between, from dark Lagers (dunkel beer), via Pale Ales to Porters and Stouts.
By comparison, the book states that the grape contains everything required to make wine - yeast, juice and sugars. They just need to be pressed and then left alone to ferment.
Beer (of some variety or another), is also the oldest known fermented drink and can be traced back to 3000BC.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Sorry, Scottie Dog but you've absolutely baffled me with the attachment that you have placed in my post! It appears to have nothing to do with my post, regarding books, but I can't be sure as I can't see to the bottom of the attachment. Please enlighten me.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Don't ask me how that got there Kevin - obviously I'm suffering from the effect of a holiday in Scotland, with no whisky!!

I've removed the said attachment.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Don't ask me how that got there Kevin - obviously I'm suffering from the effect of a holiday in Scotland, with no whisky!!

I've removed the said attachment.

I was starting to think that it was suspicious. It was added as a '.PNG' file and I know that you would either link to or quote my post rather than attach a picture.
No worries my friend!

 

[jfy1999]

The conversation about air ferries on the Birmingham forum reminded me of what was one of my favourite books as a child - “Paddington Abroad”. Paddington and the Brown family fly from an airport in Kent and it’s mentioned that the car will be going up in the plane with them.

It seemed like a throwaway line to me at first but then I saw that the book was published in 1961, while Silver City Airways were operating air ferry services to France from Manston and Lympne. So Paddington and the Browns would most likely have flown on Silver City Airways.

Has anyone else ever discovered unexpected aviation trivia in things they’ve read?