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Route Development & Rumours

Ianbutty

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Feb 29, 2016
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I agree to a point but BHX is not the only airport serving the city ecconomy by any means
I know. But it used to be second to LHR for the proportion of business v tourist traffic. That is what the city needs more of - people coming in to do business. An airport serves a city not the other way round. That is why I always prefer Shanghai (China's most important business centre) over Bejing (China's most important tourist centre, although still an important business centre).

Give me flights to Milan and Turin over Venice. Etc.

Every british city should be aiming in the same direction. Then with the city 2 city business in place the happy tourists can pop off to the bucket and spade airports knowing that the renewed prosperity affords them to do so.

Where I live Southend airport is not contributing to the Essex economy except for the direct jobs it has created, as it is taking locals out of the area and bringing them back again. Very few suits on the flights. Fine it serves a need but does not enhance the local economy.
 

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Jerry

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Where I live Southend airport is not contributing to the Essex economy except for the direct jobs it has created, as it is taking locals out of the area and bringing them back again. Very few suits on the flights. Fine it serves a need but does not enhance the local economy.
Problem is though is that the airlines will always be able to make more money from UK regional airports to the bucket and spade destinations so will focus on them the most unless they get some sort of encouragement to operate flights on lower yielding city routes.
If you take Ryanair as an example why should it operate 4 weekly flights to say Milan at a lower yield than say to Alicante when it knows it'll get a higher yield from a holiday route. Unless it's given some sort incentive ie no fees for the Milan flights to help boost the yield and then that might not be enough.
 

rutamkrd

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Jun 14, 2016
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Ian the airport is a business in its own right and passengers passing through the doors and retail facilities and freight through the sheds make their money.

BTW those holiday makers at the MAG and GIP owned airports on your door spend far more cash than the average business man traveller passing through on a frequent flyer ticket with lounge pass free sandwich and newspaper .

With that money both airport groups continue to expand .

You won’t get to 25 million plus territory in the European market without them !

Oh and that BIRMINGHAM was second to Heathrow for business traffic is a little disingenuous based on percentages only of through put .

In hard numbers Gatwick and Manchester both out perform now and have consistently in the last fifteen plus years.

Birmingham and Manchester made a big mistake in the nineties developing expensive infrastructure specifically for a certain carrier .

Manchester compounded that mistake by missing the early flexible fares growth completely and giving Liverpool a massive boost , and the global crisis of 2007 to 2009 whipped out more than 4 millions of terminal throughput combined.

MAG realised rather late but to its benefit that the way to make money would retail and again those same flexible fares carriers in the main.
Acquiring Stsnsted with the help of some Austrialian pension money sealed the deal really especially with Ryanair and EasyJet.

These are the powerhouses of UK aviation and like it or not significant way compounded by the geography of Elmdon and ease of access to Slough Hillingdon Spelthorne and Hounslow regional for the longer haul and for belly freight whilst MAG dominate in full load freight through ownership of East Midlands and Stanstead, I do wonder what unique selling points Birmingham offers right now.

Again Birmingham needs far more of those flexible fares shorter haul sectors and passengers through the doors than prestige routes to Shanghai a few days a week right. That Shanghai route won’t even help the sheds much as most of the crate numbers flowing through will continue go on those trucks to Amsterdam East Midlands Heathrow and Brussels every evening.

By the way remember much nay most of the Chinese aviation industry is built on sand and the vast majority of international flights are losing huge amounts of money to meet much lager politician imperative from the very top of the leadership.

As the North America it’s regrettable that the significant demand can and is simply added to those passing through LHR with more than fifty flights to the east coast every day and the ain’t changing anytime soon !

Canada has seen the slow death of the VFR mother’s and daughters traffic for more than a decade now; Manchester has seen traffic on that axis collapse since the nineties.

The tiger economies are still in recovery in the main and anyway they are also looking at China and US rather than Europe for growth markets , and let’s face it Garuda can’t even make money from Heathrow and beardy any from Amsterdam !

So how about Africa well freight is again covered through Amsterdam and Stanstead, and frankly the PEWS numbers from to the UK excepting South Africa and Nigeria and to a lesser extent Kenya are pitiful.

Oh and once again looks that Birmingham lost out to MAG group and Dublin on that regions game changer !

South America forget it imho

So where else

A to Hong Kong and Cathay well it’s is a possibility in a decade I suppose however bear in mind they failed at a similar airport and demographic in and around Düsseldorf so boxes aren’t necessarily a given ,

Finally HS2 may or may not be a saviour we just don’t know , and R3 would certainly have negative impact at Birmingham and Manchester growth especially on long haul aspirations imho

R3 May also impact shorter haul growth particularly at Birmingham and Luton if as expected a significant number of slots are ring fenced for domestic and near European routes. See Capital (Flybe) and Easy move in big time !
 

rutamkrd

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I think I got across to sense of the argument above and apologies for several typos and auto corrects in the text

Notably Stanstead is Stansted I know !

Some of the - the to and that should be read as applicable - bit of dyslexian effect there !

Lager should be larger in respect of the Chinese perspective !

Apologies to any word police out there right now .
 

mullion

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May 9, 2014
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Even that is not always correct as some of the popular beach resorts are blood baths and yield is
probably very low but the airlines need to keep their own pax happy by operating a high frequency
I can`t answer for BHX but the route ex MAN with highest volume is Amsterdam with something
like 90 flights a week
Sorry this was typed just after 11.40 but not posted until dog walked so is a little out of order
 
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rutamkrd

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Oh Capital should of course be that rather odd Virgin/Delta Shobarts and Luxembourg financiers business Connect my bad !

BTW those Luxembourg based financiers have a habit of bailing soon a a bit of profit can be rebanked so that 40% holding ain’t gonna remain the same over the mid term imho.
 

Ianbutty

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I think you are misreading me. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

BHX was a business focussed airport back in the 90's when the FT reported that whilst it was miles behind in passenger numbers it was second to LHR when it came to the proportion of business versus (then) the IT throughput.

Now of course it is behind LHR, LGW, and possibly EDI and MAN in that regard. But for the benefit of the City Region economy it needs to build the business network, not more Med sun destinations. Simple as that.

No airport that flies people out to the sun contributes to the local economy beyond the airport itself. I know that the airport is a business and the contributes to an area's GVA. But business connectivity is what really grows an economy. 25 to 30 mppa means nought for the regional economy if the airport is not connected to the world's business capitals.

Rather have a city with and airport, than an airport with a city attached.
 

mullion

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Of course it does, The taxi, public transport are they not local, the people who work there spend money in the local shops. Manchester airport contributes to the 10 local councils by putting money into all them from their profits each year, I can`t speak for BHX but MAN helps with our council taxes and how many jobs does it support directly and in directly.
By the way I would suggest that the business Manchester business traffic is by miles the second behind the London airports of
LHR and LGw and I would guess at Edinburgh is up there also and the likes of Aberdeen
 

Ray Finkle

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At risk of this turning into yet another MAN vs BHX argument the last figures that I saw showed LHR and LCY as the two airports with the most business passengers as a percentage of the total throughput. Birmingham was indeed third with Manchester fourth but there was such a small gap between them (from memory I think less than 1%) that they were practically the same.

I can definitely see Ian's point about city routes bringing business to the region and they can also bring inbound tourism which helps local hotels, restaurants, bars, attractions etc. I definitely wouldn't discount the holiday routes though. A business person attending a meeting in Europe may well turn up for their flight with the minimum time remaining, go through security and straight to the gate without stopping anywhere. On the other hand a family group travelling on their annual two week jolly may choose to park at the airport then spend quite a bit of money in some of the shops in the departure lounge. There is also a good chance of them purchasing meals and drinks at the airport which all adds up. This puts money in the tills of the airport outlets which in turn eventually filters through to the airport itself, hopefully to then be reinvested in route development.

I think what is important is a healthy balance of business and leisure and both MAN and BHX have historically achieved that, albeit on a different scale.

Obviously, as far as BHX is concerned, it has been a disastrous 18 months or so with many losses and the new CEO and new Aviation Director need to gets things happening sooner rather than later.
 

58terminus

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Sep 23, 2016
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On the other hand a family group travelling on their annual two week jolly may choose to park at the airport then spend quite a bit of money in some of the shops in the departure lounge. There is also a good chance of them purchasing meals and drinks at the airport which all adds up.
As you say Ray it all adds up but these days most of us have less to go around. Airports have taken advantage of the longer check in times
knowing people have a couple of hours to kill which was fine when things were better bur these days when the majority are holidaying on a tighter budget spending money before you have left the ground is not so appealing. Unfortunately many airports redesigned themselves around the retail experience.We see what that has done for many town and city centres in the internet era..These days youngsters can keep themselves occupied on their phones and the adults can save their money to spend in more exotic locations. O.k. maybe one drink but thats it at them prices.
It.s just another problem for many airports in a changing world.
 

mullion

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Seeing how much some drink before they fly at inflated prices and the restaurants are jammed full of punters having beakfast
before they because they cannot get a proper breakfast or lunch/dinner on plane having travelled by car.
 

Ianbutty

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Seeing how much some drink before they fly at inflated prices and the restaurants are jammed full of punters having beakfast
before they because they cannot get a proper breakfast or lunch/dinner on plane having travelled by car.
I have never understood the breakfast pint. Saw some middle aged men having a pint or two at an airport whilst I was waiting to board a 6.40 am plane!
 

58terminus

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Sep 23, 2016
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We obviously needs some rumours....can we have another one of those feeding frenzies
I suspect the trouble is few of us believe there is any substance behind rumours any more.Once that starts thread drift and a general lack of interest prevail. The feeding frenzies very soon turn to humour. Never long before Air Afrcaada get their mention.
The really should have a thread of their own by now.
 

Ray Finkle

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Here you go folks, but one that we hear time and time and time and time agaiiiiiiiiin

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

But for the simple fact that Indian airlines are a total shambles, I hardly think BHX-BOM is top of there priority :bored:
I'm not sure how much difference it will make but there is a link below to Mayor Street's petition for flights to Mumbai should people wish to sign it.

https://www.change.org/p/air-india-we-need-a-direct-flight-to-mumbai-from-birmingham
 

Ianbutty

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Feb 29, 2016
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We obviously needs some rumours....can we have another one of those feeding frenzies we had before the unmentionable P was announced?
Route announcements? Nah, something much more important than that.

https://www.birminghamairport.co.uk...am-airport-takes-part-in-airport-safety-week/

Birmingham Airport is taking part in Airport Safety Week, what more do people want? :facepalm:
I got an invite to that today. Not BHX but here in the South. Cannot wait or am I busy that day?
 

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