Route Development

[User001]

Bad period for Liverpool.

-Aer Lingus have pulled the 4 daily Dublin route from January 5th.

-Flybe will reduce its 4 daily Belfast route to 5 weekly and pull the Edinburgh route this winter.

-Vueling have now performed their last flight and will not be returning.

-Thomson have cancelled plans to serve Tenerife next summer.

-CSA look unlikely to return on the Prague route next summer.

They have had some good news, with the blue air base, Thomson up 2 flights still with a 2nd weekly Palma and 1 weekly Ibiza, and Ryanair have finally increased flights after years of stagnation.

However, with Aer Lingus, Vueling and CSA gone, all connection opportunity and hub flights have once again gone, leaving Liverpool as a pure point to point low cost flight airport once more.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'm amazed that LPL is being cut back so severely on its Irish flights. I always believed that in many ways Liverpool is the most 'Irish city' in England with a huge number of residents with Irish ancestry.

I take it that Ryanair still serves the Republic from LPL in a big way.

 

[User001]

Ryanair still serves LPL-DUB/ORK/LDY with Flybe and Easyjet on BHD/BFS respectively in Ireland/Northern Ireland.

LDY is confirmed as being cut eventually, ORK is just 4 weekly and prior to Aer Lingus arriving, LPL-DUB was as low as 2/3 daily, so, would head that way again. BHD down from 4 daily to 5 weekly is also a severe cut.

Quite shocking really.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Many thanks. Yes, I agree.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Whilst very much a Manchester supporter I also feek very sorry for Liverpool at the present time.

Speke is an airport with a fine history and is possibly a historians dream. I well remember my only first flight from there many years ago (may be someone can confirm the year) when Aer Lingus operated a Carvair to Dublin on a schedule service - sitting in the small rear cabin was amazing, as was the vibration when engines where run up for magneto checks prior to departure.

I also recall the British Eagle service (BE991?) that operated LPL/MAN/FRA with a BAC 1-11.

Both easyjet and Ryanair can, with Blue Air, help Liverpool to exist - it would be a shame to see it turn into another derelict wasteland.

 

[ethanegcc]

I also hope LPL continues to exist. I am also a MAN supporter but have flown from LPL several times and found it an enjoyable experience. I hope that the Blue Air base becomes a success.

What confuses me is why Aer Lingus are going from 4 daily to none, wouldn't they have been better decreasing to 2 daily to begin with and see what comes from there, or was the situation that dire? What aircraft did they operate? If it was A320's, they could have gone down to an ATR72/42 like their EMA and DSA operations surely?

With CSA gone from the northern market now, would there be a possibility of going to MAN, User?

 

[Scottie Dog]

The EI flights were operated by Regional and therefore were with either ATR42 or ATR72 equipment. From memory I recall more 42s over Warrington than any others.

 

[Jerry]

Aer Lingus regional seem to have pulled out of a few airports to concentrate on bigger airports. DSA and CWL have gone over to codeshare with Flybe which LPL hasn't got. MAN also might curtail many hub routes from LPL because of the long haul schedule there. It might be that LPL can only sustain sun routes and point to point routes.

 

[Silvercity]

I don't really understand Aer Lingus, they have a long history at Liverpool, but this is the second time they haven't been able to get their operation to work in recent years. They have operated A321 in recent past. I am hoping Blue Air will fill in any gaps not filled by EZY or FR, also Wizz seem to be doing well from LPL.

 

[User001]

BH Airlines were due to launch a Bourgas-Liverpool route this May, 1 weekly, but have now pulled the route launch due to lower than expected bookings.

That means this summer, Liverpool has lost Aer Lingus, CSA, Vueling, the proposed BH air and the proposed Thomson Tenerife flight.

Seems all the UK regional airports having mixed fortunes this year.

 

[Philbky]

Liverpool's problem is the motorway network which makes it as easy, if not easier, to get to Manchester from much of its catchment area and the electrification of the rail network with fast, regular trains to Manchester Airport from key points such as Southport, Liverpool city centre and Warrington has only increased its difficulties. Had MAG bought Liverpool instead of East Midlands,the development of the airport as a pure cargo/parcels hub would have secured its future, increased employment opportunities and removed competition between the two airports.

 

[Aviador]

This is the type of discussion I'm used to seeing in the Leeds forum. How many people can honestly say they consider the drive time to an airport when booking a flight? For me personally and for most of the people I ask, price is the overriding factor to most other considerations when booking a flight.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

This is the type of discussion I'm used to seeing in the Leeds forum. How many people can honestly say they consider the drive time to an airport when booking a flight? For me personally and for most of the people I ask, price is the overriding factor to most other considerations when booking a flight.

Probably depends how far away the other airport is located. 35-40 years ago when our kids were quite young we would regularly use the likes of Britannia Airways and Thomson Holidays for Costa-type family holidays. There was a huge premium on flights from our local airport at Bristol then compared with the same holiday, same holiday company and same airline from Gatwick.

We could never face the idea of a long drive to Sussex, particularly coming back, (and the cost and time of the journey to/from Gatwick had to be factored in as well) so we always flew locally even though it meant paying more for the 'privilege' of doing so.

Now that we have reached the stage of being retired baby boomers with family flown the nest many, many years ago convenience over price is more important to us. The 'old gits market', as I sometimes put it, is an extremely valuable one for airlines and I know from personal experience that we are not alone in our thinking.

Had the alternative been a nearer airport which in our case could reasonably be Cardiff, Birmingham or Exeter we might have flown from one of those if the price difference had been great, but in those days all provincial airports seemed to attract a large supplement compared with Gatwick.

 

[Jerry]

How many people can honestly say they consider the drive time to an airport when booking a flight?

I do! When i look at prices for flights i always look at CWL first and then LHR and BRS and BHX. If the flights are cheaper i then way up how much cheaper they are compared to the hassle of getting to those airports. Generally i tend to stick with CWL because it's either cheaper or there isn't much difference. A lot of the times when i add on transport costs CWL tends to be cheaper but i will admit i may be different because i generally tend to travel long haul.

 

[Silvercity]

A ***Links to other Social Media platforms are not permitted***- survey ( and I don't use it, so its what I've read elsewhere) of where people would like to fly to from Liverpool has appeared

The top five are :-

New York
Servile
London
Copenhagen/Munich (joint 4th)
Santorini

I don't think there is anything very scientific about it, as Rome is mentioned, which is an existing route !

I was quite surprised London was picked as number 3, this can only be for transferring onwards surely, very little point to fly to London otherwise.

 

[Aviador]

A ***Links to other Social Media platforms are not permitted***- survey ( and I don't use it, so its what I've read elsewhere) of where people would like to fly to from Liverpool has appeared

The top five are :-

New York
Servile
London
Copenhagen/Munich (joint 4th)
Santorini

I was quite surprised London was picked as number 3, this can only be for transferring onwards surely, very little point to fly to London otherwise.

New York, Servile, London, Copenhagen, Munich and Santorini all seem possible target destinations from Liverpool. Do you think New York would do better as a charter rather than a scheduled service, in a similar way to how Jet2 operates? I say this because it's probably the most plausible way of getting a New York service. UK regional airports have struggled for years to get and sustain regular scheduled ops across the pond with only two or three exceptions.

Seville is a beautiful city and one I have visited some years ago. It's still developing it's tourist market so Liverpool should be able to tap into that market easily enough. I think Bristol and a couple of other regional airports now offer flights there so there's no reason Liverpool shouldn't be able to sustain regular flights to the city, maybe thrice weekly.

Copenhagen and Munich are both fantastic cities for weekend breaks in particular. Again with business, both are cities with huge business opportunities that would be great for Liverpool to tap into. Like most of the German cities, Munich has some fantastic beer festivals "Oktoberfest" and the Christmas German Market "Christkindlmarkt". As good as ours are, none are as good as the proper German markets.

As for Santorini, I've never been but I've heard it's a beautiful island and well worth visiting. Surely an airline like Air Blue should be able to pick that one up easy enough?

 

[Silvercity]

All seem possible from Liverpool. Do you think New York would do better as a charter rather than a scheduled service, in a similar way to how Jet2 operates? I say this because it's probably the most plausible way of getting a New York service. UK regional airports have struggled for years to get and sustain regular scheduled ops across the pond with only two or three exceptions.

Seville is a beautiful city and one I have visited some years ago. It's still developing it's tourist market so Liverpool should be able to tap into that market easily enough. I think Bristol and a couple of other regional airports now offer flights there so there's no reason Liverpool shouldn't be able to sustain regular flights to the city, maybe thrice weekly.

Copenhagen and Munich are both fantastic cities for weekend breaks in particular. Again with business, both are cities with huge business opportunities that would be great for Liverpool to tap into. Like most of the German cities, Munich has some fantastic beer festivals "Oktoberfest" and the Christmas German Market "Christkindlmarkt". As good as ours are, none are as good as the proper German markets.

As for Santorini, I've never been but I've heard it's a beautiful island and well worth visiting. Surely an airline like Air Blue should be able to pick that one up easy enough?

I think a number of years ago Ryanair did Liverpool to Seville ( and Granada) and your right its a very beautiful city, ideal for a long weekend away, I see know reason why that would not be popular. I've always wanted to go to Santorini, its looks stunning, but i'm a bit put as a friend recently went and said the place was swamped by cruise ship passengers, he said you couldn't move !

Liverpool is only linked to Berlin, so to me any German cities would be useful, and Munich again in a popular destination with quite a lot going on. Copenhagen was to be launched by Ryanair, but after announcing it, it never happened for some reason !

I think New York is interesting, there are quite a few links between the two cities, with shipping, and The Beetles history. Now you have these smaller aircraft that can fly further a route link like this may be possible, but I get your point about a charter too, that might be a good way to begin.

 

[Silvercity]

For me the most import route to re connect is Lisbon, Easyjet's moving it to MAN, and its probably Liverpool's busiest route. I hope Blue air are watching !

 

[Aviador]

For me the most import route to re connect is Lisbon, Easyjet's moving it to MAN, and its probably Liverpool's busiest route. I hope Blue air are watching !

Yes it's deeply frustrating especially as you say it appears to perform well from Liverpool.

All airports and airlines seem to carry out these route questionnaires asking people where they want to fly to next. You'd think they'd be able to work it out for themselves. People tend to always pick places like New York but in reality how many people actually go there? As an example the business community of Bristol said they needed a New York service but when Bristol Airport scooped Continental Airlines they were eventually given a "use it or lose it" ultimatum. Not too long after, the route ceased.

A general rule I have is if a route can support say two airlines from Manchester, a neighbouring airport should be able to support one as well. If only one airline is serving a route from Manchester, the chances are it wont work from one of the surrounding airports. This isn't a strict rule as there are other factors you need to consider. If one airline is carrying over 200,000 passengers annually from Manchester then obviously one of the surrounding airports has a case to claw back some of their lost passengers. The aviation industry is a dog eat dog business it's an uphill struggle for the smaller airports.

#wherenextliverpool

 

[TheLocalYokel]

As an example the business community of Bristol said they needed a New York service but when Bristol Airport scooped Continental Airlines they were eventually given a "use it or lose it" ultimatum. Not too long after, the route ceased.

That particular instance wasn't quite as straightforward. BRS got a daily Continental Newark route in May 2005 at the time the airline had no rights to use LHR. Within a couple of years CO gained LHR rights and promptly moved their Gatwick-Newark service to LHR. From then on the BRS route was always on borrowed time and with the recession intervening it was a surprise that it lasted as long as late 2010.

The BRS route was then effectively moved 100 miles or so along the M4 to become CO's fifth daily EWR service from LHR with the B757-200 retained as the aircraft type at LHR. CO gave a number of reasons for the BRS-EWR termination, one of which was poor take-up at full fare in the business-first cabin.

In reality, it was obvious to most people with an interest in the subject that it made little sense to operate a fifth daily rotation from a small airport 'down the road' from LHR (if CO had enjoyed LHR rights in 2005 they almost certainly would never have begun the BRS route which actually exceeded CO's publicly stated targets for the first couple of years pre-recession), especially when most West Country travellers regard LHR as the default airport for long haul travel with its relatively easy proximity and multitude of choices. So in those senses the parallel between BRS and LHR is perhaps not quite the same as that between LPL and MAN.