The Football Thread

TheLocalYokel

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Sheffield Wednesday

The club has been found to be in breach of football's FFP regulations and will face a 12 point penalty next season. Wigan were earlier penalised 12 points which was to be applied this season if the deduction took them into relegation (which it did) or next season if it didn't.

Had the 12 point deduection to Wednesday been applied this season they would have finished in bottom place in the Championship with 44 points and relegated. That would mean that Charlton Athletic would have escaped relegation.

The below report speaks of possible legal action.

 

Rob c DSA

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One reason for the points deduction coming in to force next season is because in normal times the 19/20 season would of ended way before the hearing concluded, the hearing would of still ended when it has meaning it would have been enforced next season anyway as the fixture list and leagues would of already been decide in June of this year ironic that the this has come out today, the 20/21 season should of started tonight. The Wigan situation is different and why they got hit for this season

Whichever way you look at it it's a mess the Championship bring Wigan in they've been hit then Brum who got away with it this time last time it was 9 point deduction for them. Villla who managed to get promoted before they could be done for anything they would have been in huge trouble if they hadn't of got promoted when they did. Reading not sure where they stand however they have had issue's and Derby could be in the mix for a points deduction too.

The biggest loser though - the fans and as a Wednesday fan it won't be much fun watching what in effect could look like a league one team playing in the Championship next season with a 12 point gap to make up for starters. Bolton found thing very tough to start fielding kids who were out of there depth I see a similar situation happening in S6 :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

TheLocalYokel

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One reason for the points deduction coming in to force next season is because in normal times the 19/20 season would of ended way before the hearing concluded, the hearing would of still ended when it has meaning it would have been enforced next season anyway as the fixture list and leagues would of already been decide in June of this year ironic that the this has come out today, the 20/21 season should of started tonight. The Wigan situation is different and why they got hit for this season

Whichever way you look at it it's a mess the Championship bring Wigan in they've been hit then Brum who got away with it this time last time it was 9 point deduction for them. Villla who managed to get promoted before they could be done for anything they would have been in huge trouble if they hadn't of got promoted when they did. Reading not sure where they stand however they have had issue's and Derby could be in the mix for a points deduction too.

The biggest loser though - the fans and as a Wednesday fan it won't be much fun watching what in effect could look like a league one team playing in the Championship next season with a 12 point gap to make up for starters. Bolton found thing very tough to start fielding kids who were out of there depth I see a similar situation happening in S6 :banghead::banghead::banghead:
The 12 point deduction was not applied to Wigan until early July after they went into administration, again long after the usual 19/20 season should have finished. The team that is really affected is Charlton Athletic who would have escaped relegation had the 12 point deduction been applied to Wednesday this season. Then again, if the Wigan points penalty had been carried over to next season Barnsley would have been relegated, so I suppose it's the usual winners and losers that typifies life in general.

Why are sports administrators so out of touch with the real world? Will Carling was complaining about the 'old farts' who ran the Rugby Union many years ago. Nothing much seems to have changed across the sporting spectrum.

Fans expect and are entitled to expect consistency but your outline of the differing sanctions, or in some cases lack of sanctions, applied to various clubs for seemingly similar transgressions, really says it all.
 

Rob c DSA

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The 12 point deduction was not applied to Wigan until early July after they went into administration, again long after the usual 19/20 season should have finished. The team that is really affected is Charlton Athletic who would have escaped relegation had the 12 point deduction been applied to Wednesday this season. Then again, if the Wigan points penalty had been carried over to next season Barnsley would have been relegated, so I suppose it's the usual winners and losers that typifies life in general.

Why are sports administrators so out of touch with the real world? Will Carling was complaining about the 'old farts' who ran the Rugby Union many years ago. Nothing much seems to have changed across the sporting spectrum.

Fans expect and are entitled to expect consistency but your outline of the differing sanctions, or in some cases lack of sanctions, applied to various clubs for seemingly similar transgressions, really says it all.
Wigan situation was dealt with quickly by the EFL so I assume with the season still ongoing that's why they got an immediate points deduction to be applied at the end of the season like it was.

Suppose the issue for the EFL is every case is different meaning it's difficult to have a hard set of rules, fines and points deductions in place, obviously they saw Birmingham's issue's in a slightly better light when they got there 9 point deduction 18 month or so back.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Wigan situation was dealt with quickly by the EFL so I assume with the season still ongoing that's why they got an immediate points deduction to be applied at the end of the season like it was.
Which begs the question that if Wigan had gone into administration in late June/early July in a 'normal' season would they have had their points deduction delayed until the forthcoming season rather than the one that ended several weeks beforehand? Practicalities suggest that they certainly would have had the penalty carried over which might mean that clubs try to 'time' administrations in future.

Obviously there are other considerations that drive companies into administration - football or otherwise - but if it's a case of a few weeks delay club owners might take note of the respective outcomes of Wigan Athletic and Sheffield Wednesday.
 

JENNYJET

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Will Carling definitely had something when he let rip upon the Rugby Union but Association Football has no one unless you count Roy Keane and he mercifully says little. But when he does, people listen. I believe points deduction is a blunt instrument by way of passing punishment but if a sanction is warranted, there is a transfer ban, or a ban on participation in cup competitions, crowd limits or stand closure. Hurt the club's administrator but not the competition they play in.

Besides, FFP is now discredited thanks to the Court of Arbitration in Sport and the judgment upon Manchester City v. UEFA.
 

Rob c DSA

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Which begs the question that if Wigan had gone into administration in late June/early July in a 'normal' season would they have had their points deduction delayed until the forthcoming season rather than the one that ended several weeks beforehand? Practicalities suggest that they certainly would have had the penalty carried over which might mean that clubs try to 'time' administrations in future.

Obviously there are other considerations that drive companies into administration - football or otherwise - but if it's a case of a few weeks delay club owners might take note of the respective outcomes of Wigan Athletic and Sheffield Wednesday.
Yes Wigan would of been in the same situation as Wednesday with a deduction for the coming season, some of those who just escaped relegation this season and will almost certainly struggle next season would have been rubbing there hands at that idea two relegation spots virtually tied up already for the coming season.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Will Carling definitely had something when he let rip upon the Rugby Union but Association Football has no one unless you count Roy Keane and he mercifully says little. But when he does, people listen. I believe points deduction is a blunt instrument by way of passing punishment but if a sanction is warranted, there is a transfer ban, or a ban on participation in cup competitions, crowd limits or stand closure. Hurt the club's administrator but not the competition they play in.

Besides, FFP is now discredited thanks to the Court of Arbitration in Sport and the judgment upon Manchester City v. UEFA.
The snag with that is that it's usually points deductions that really hurt most clubs. The wealthier ones in particular don't worry too much about being fined if they achieve their aim by dubious means.

For instance a club would rather be fined and excluded from the League Cup and/or FA Cup if it means they lost no league points and so remained in the Premier League or their promotion to the Premier League was not blocked by a deduction of points, although I agree that transfer bans can play a part but not solely.
Yes Wigan would of been in the same situation as Wednesday with a deduction for the coming season, some of those who just escaped relegation this season and will almost certainly struggle next season would have been rubbing there hands at that idea two relegation spots virtually tied up already for the coming season.
Charlton Athletic say they are considering legal action.

 

Rob c DSA

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Charlton fans might not agree but they would be better going down both games against Wednesday last season they were terrible they would struggle to stay up next season where as going down they might come straight back up and be stronger in the long run.
 

JENNYJET

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I was disappointed to see Wolverhampton fall last night as I was hoping for a semifinal with my team. I was torn between United and Wolves owing to family politics though I am pleased of the progress of the Black Country team even if they give United a regular enema!
 

TheLocalYokel

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I was disappointed to see Wolverhampton fall last night as I was hoping for a semifinal with my team. I was torn between United and Wolves owing to family politics though I am pleased of the progress of the Black Country team even if they give United a regular enema!
I too was hoping for an all-England semi-final. Seeing Wolves in the spotlight again takes me back to my school days in the mid-1950s when Wolves were a leading club in the country and played teams such as Moscow Spartak and the Hungarian Honved under floodlights at Molineux shown live on BBC Tv. This was at a time when the 'Magical Magyars' dominated the European international scene thrashing England 6-3 at Wembley and 7-1 in Budapest.

Those were the years before the European Cup began and the games against these overseas teams were regarded almost as unofficial champion of Europe contests. Floodlight football was in its infancy too and not many clubs had them, so watching live football on a midweek winter evening, albeit on a grainy 12-inch monochrome tv set, was a surreal experience then.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Congratulations Scotland (y)

Shame about Northern Ireland missing out. I watched most of the England v Republic of Ireland friendly last night on the box. It was just a glorified practice match with England's second, even third string, players strolling through the game to a 3-0 win against a Republic side consisting mainly of Championship-level players that's having a poor run at the moment anyway.

Why they bother to play these meaningless matches I can't understand. England played Wales in a friendly in the previous international break and two vastly-understrength sides went through the same ritual. England won that comfortably in the end but for the life of me I can't remember the score so underwhelming was the occasion. The club managers' stress levels must go through the roof worrying about a severe injury to one of their players in such pointless (literally as well) games.

Going back to the Irish teams, the Irish rugby team turns out as a joint side with North and South playing as one. When will that happen in football?
 

JENNYJET

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The entire international break ritual is past it's sell by date. A reasonably successful club will have players scattered about the globe and long flights do not help with recovery and it often takes a couple of weeks before club teams hit previous form levels before the break. I understand that the timetable has been disrupted but qualifying tournaments should perhaps occur in closed seasons if coordinated.
 

Carl0927

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A vast improvement upon Old Trafford and it's location near Salford docks

I like it!

Im not a football fan really, but I an aware of this development. Unfortunately there are some including UNESCO, who seem to want to change at all. As I understand it, it is an area of unused dockland slightly north of the centre, its not open to the public, but it is ripe for development and would bring a boost to this area of the city. However some would try to hold it back...see below !

Work on Everton’s new £500m stadium in Liverpool docklands could start this spring if councillors give the go-ahead next week – but UNESCO is maintaining its hostile stance. Tony McDonough reports
Everton
Image of Everton FC’s new stadium at Bramley Moore Dock

World culture and heritage body UNESCO is maintaining its hostile stance towards Everton’s FC’s plans to build a new stadium on Liverpool’s waterfront.
This week, planning officials at Liverpool City Council recommended that the £500m arena at Bramley Moore Dock, within Peel L&P’s £5bn Liverpool Waters development, be approved. Councillors on the planning committee will make the final decision at a special meeting on Tuesday, February 23.
Bramley Moore Dock was designed by Jesse Hartley and opened in 1848 and the project will mean it will be filled in. This has caused dismay among heritage groups, namely Historic England and the Victorian Society.
However, council officers have concluded that the benefits of the project far outweigh such concerns. Not only is it estimated that it will create up to 15,000 jobs and offer an annual £1.3bn boost to the local economy, but it will also open up the historic north docks to the public, which are currently hidden from view.
In their report they concede that, despite great efforts by Everton FC to mitigate the impact on the Grade II-listed dock through careful design, the project will cause “substantial harm” to the original structure.
However, they add: “The stadium development will create a new venue for the city and provide new civic spaces that are privately managed to encourage access to the World Heritage Site (WHS).
“This demonstrates that the proposals will generate considerable and tangible benefits for both the immediate communities within which the project sits and wider stakeholders across the Liverpool city region.”
Everton has gone to great lengths to both minimise the impact on the site and offer an enhanced attraction for public by bringing the docks back to life and offering initiatives such as a heritage trail.
Bramley Moore Dock
Heritage groups are concerned about the impact on the Grade II-listed Bramley Moore Dock

While Historic England and the Victorian Society have acknowledged the wider benefits of the scheme, despite their objections, it is UNESCO, as overseer of the WHS, that has mounted the strongest opposition. And, it is in fact just the latest skirmish in a long-running battle with the city.
Ever since property and ports giant Peel unveiled its Liverpool Waters masterplan in 2006, UNESCO has been generally hostile to any substantial development on the northern docklands complex.
Liverpool Waters, a 60-acre site stretching from Princes Dock close to the city centre to though Central Docks and up to Northern Docks, is a 30-year plan to create a mix of homes, commercial and leisure space. It isn’t technically part of the World Heritage Site, but within a buffer zone.
However, UNESCO regards this distinction as semantic and seeks to preserve the integrity of the buffer zone with the same zeal as the principle WHS site, which covers much of the city centre and the world famous waterfront and its Three Graces.
Formed in 1945 as a branch of the United Nations, UNESCO is not afraid to court controversy as the self-appointed guardian of the world’s cultural assets. In 2013 it upset families of Cubans who had been executed by the Fidel Castro regime with its plan to recognise the ‘life and works’ of Castro’s henchman-in-chief, Che Guevara.
And, back in 1984, the US withdrew all co-operation with UNESCO citing the “highly politicised” nature of the organisation. It complained of a “hostility towards the basic institutions of a free society”.
UNESCO’s brief covers 1,121 World Heritage Sites – 869 cultural, 213 natural, and 39 mixed properties across 167 countries. And Liverpool is by no means the first location it has crossed swords with and threatened to withdraw the WHS badge. The historic Italian city of Venice, no less, has also found itself in the crosshairs.
Its determination not to budge an inch over development on the waterfront has angered many people in Liverpool. Mayor Joe Anderson has frequently expressed his frustration at the organisation but has also attempted to hold out an olive branch. In 2018 Peel revised its Liverpool Waters plans and it seemed an uneasy accommodation had been reached.
But the plan for the stadium at Bramley Moore Dock has reignited the old conflict. Last summer a long-time UNESCO critic, Frank McKenna, chief executive of business group Downtown in Business, said: “I can’t be the only one who is fed up with the city having to constantly go cap in hand to this faceless, unaccountable body… It is time to tell UNESCO to take back their vanity badge.”
photo-04-06-2019-14-23-00-e1561721144578.jpg
Frank McKenna, chief executive of Downtown in Business. Picture by Tony McDonough

UNESCO’s comments on the stadium are contained in the council report. It says the 52,888-capacity arena “would have a completely unacceptable major adverse impact on the authenticity, integrity and outstanding universal value of the WHS”.
The objection also re-iterates that this opposition to the scheme is consistent with UNESCO’s previous advice that it is not appropriate for further new developments within the WHS property, and its buffer zone, to be approved and built until such time as an overall plan or the development of the docklands is agreed.
Historic England and the Victorian Society have adopted a more conciliatory tone despite both having major concerns about the impact of the stadium. Historic England acknowledges Everton’s desire to develop a new arena and commend the manner in which the club have engaged the public and stakeholders.
However, it remains firmly opposed to the filling in of Bramley Moore Dock and recommends councillors refuse the application. If, as expected, the committee approves the the plan, Historic England insists the project be “called in” by Secretary of State Robert Jenrick.
If that were to happen it would mean Everton’s ambition to begin work on site this spring, and kick-off the 2024-25 season there, would be thwarted. Calling in the project would mean it would then be subject to a planning inquiry. The club says it would remain committed to the scheme in this eventuality but it would push back the timetable on what will be a three-year build.
In the Victorian Society’s view the proposals require further justification and greater elaboration before they are given consent, It is urging councillors to withhold consent and seek further information and amendments.
Should the application be approved, the society says it is willing to work with Everton and offer further advice that could be used to “mitigate the harm”.



From. LBN
 

JENNYJET

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So then, UNESCO seek to preserve all that is old and celebrate decay and are hostile to renewal. Everton seek to be sensitive to the site but UNESCO are blind and deaf and not willing to offer solutions to their objections. Compared to those London stadia, all steel and concrete and vast in scale, Bramley Moore Dock is refreshing. One that may, in time, become a candidate for listed status.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Football - heading

There has been much concern in recent years about damage to the brain caused by heading footballs.

A joint statement has been issued on behalf of the Football Association, Premier League, English Football League, Professional Footballers' Association and League Managers Association recommending that professional players should not practice more than ten 'higher force' headers in any training week, and heading practice generally should be restricted to one training session per week,

Higher force headers are typically those following a long pass or from crosses, corners or free kicks. The statement added that the majority of headers in a game involve low force headers.

Some teams score a lot of goals from set pieces, often via the head. if they are to be restricted in practising heading it will be fascinating to see how they deal with the issue in terms of tactics.

Heading plays a huge part in football. If it is more and more restricted, even phase out in time, the game will take on a very different aspect. The tall centre backs and tall strikers might find themselves replaced by smaller, nippier players who won't need to worry about getting off the ground to deal with high balls.

 
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