The Football Thread

JENNYJET

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People watch and pay for Premier league football because it offers them a spectacle that satisfies a need. The Romans had gladiatorial contests to entertain the masses and built arena in every outpost in the empire. The coloseum in Rome being the finest example. From that came stadia and the English leagues are blessed with some fine examples. This takes money and followers of top clubs help finance the game. This wealth trickles down to lower divisions in the pyramid through shared gate receipts when allowed for, player transfers and the parachute payment for failure. The tv companies came later and have enhanced the incomes of many clubs that were already successful in relative terms.

Top performing players will always chase the Dollar and have agents to maximise individuals potential earnings but they have apparently earned it. Further, it attracts the best of global talent. It is what it is, almost self generating. A bit like a gas turbine or Nuclear reactor, once lit perpetual motion or chain reaction keeps it going. This was my take on the game.
 

Kevin Farnell

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Just being pedantic, but perpetual motion is an utter impossibility. There will always be losses of energy to friction, heat, air resistance etc. Likewise, a chain reaction can only continue while there are reagents to supply the reaction. Once gone, the reaction ceases.
As for top performing players chasing the dollar, I would describe myself as a 'Steve Bull'. Even if I was the greatest player on the planet, I couldn't get out of bed to play for the likes of Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal etc no matter what they offered to pay me. I just couldn't find any enthusiasm for them. I would however happily play for any West Midland's club and I do have a bit of a soft spot for Liverpool.
Likewise, I would never pay to get Sky Sports. I do get BT Sports as part of the package that includes my beloved Discovery and Nat Geographic channels, but if I could drop BT Sports and keep the others in order to save a few quid, I wouldn't miss it.

Kevin
 

JENNYJET

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Thank you Kevin, it is always good to be corrected by your good self. We pedants should stand forward, how else can we all learn? I am always pedantic when it comes to explaining tricky legal concepts as wording is critically important.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Just being pedantic, but perpetual motion is an utter impossibility. There will always be losses of energy to friction, heat, air resistance etc. Likewise, a chain reaction can only continue while there are reagents to supply the reaction. Once gone, the reaction ceases.
As for top performing players chasing the dollar, I would describe myself as a 'Steve Bull'. Even if I was the greatest player on the planet, I couldn't get out of bed to play for the likes of Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal etc no matter what they offered to pay me. I just couldn't find any enthusiasm for them. I would however happily play for any West Midland's club and I do have a bit of a soft spot for Liverpool.
Likewise, I would never pay to get Sky Sports. I do get BT Sports as part of the package that includes my beloved Discovery and Nat Geographic channels, but if I could drop BT Sports and keep the others in order to save a few quid, I wouldn't miss it.

Kevin
We don't have Sky anything and although BT is my service provider I opted out of BT Sport when they began to charge for it. When it first came in it was free to BT subscribers for a year or two.

I watch very little tv anyway and my wife is not an addict either. If we had Sky I'd be spending far too much time sitting in front of the screen watching football, cricket and rugby. As it is I sit in front of the computer for probably longer than is good for my eyesight which thus far has held up pretty well as I only need specs for reading.

As to players' loyalty nothing is more false than the sight of a player kissing his shirt badge after scoring a goal as if the club is the most important thing in his life. Give most of them the chance of a pay rise by moving to a 'bigger' club and they would be off like a shot.

You mentioned Steve Bull. I think of John Atyeo. Apart from two appearances for Portsmouth as a teenage amateur in the old First Division (imagine that happening now in the Premier League) his entire career was spent at Bristol City - most appearances and most goals for the club. There is a statue of him at Ashton Gate and a stand bearing his name.

He looked and spoke like a Wiltshire farmer but he was an intelligent man. He trained as a quantity surveyor and after football became a maths teacher at a Wiltshire comprehensive school rising to be head of the department. Sadly, he died in his early 60s.

He was an inside-right or centre-forward (lovely old position names) and played for Bristol City between 1951 and 1966. He played six matches for England and scored five goals including a last-minute equaliser in Dublin that saw England through to the 1958 World Cup finals in Sweden. Before the finals he was rejected by England on the basis that he was a part-time professional.

That he got into the England team whilst playing for an unfashionable Second Division club (today's Championship) speaks much for his ability. Several 'big' clubs of the time tried to lure him away with huge sums of money offered to Bristol City as transfer payment but he was happy in the West Country and refused to go. The club chairman at the time, a self-made millionaire (billionaire at today's values), had promised John's father that his son would never be sold against the player's wishes - an honourable chairman and an honourable player.
 

JENNYJET

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I have endured a miserable afternoon and am considering moving away from serious affiliation with Manchester United towards a club with ambition and with no pretentions.

I was thinking of Forest Green Rovers but I am asking for suggestions.

Meanwhile, I am expecting a reaction from Miami and the Glazer family!
 

TheLocalYokel

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I have endured a miserable afternoon and am considering moving away from serious affiliation with Manchester United towards a club with ambition and with no pretentions.

I was thinking of Forest Green Rovers but I am asking for suggestions.

Meanwhile, I am expecting a reaction from Miami and the Glazer family!
Most British clubs are worse off than Manchester United, much worse off in many cases. Take Cardiff City for example who have lost eight consecutive Championship matches scoring only one goal in the process, or Bristol City who have now played 17 Championship matches at home since winning one (it was last January) and because of Covid crowd restrictions on top of that have not won a Championship match at home in front of their fans for well over 600 days.

Now Forest Green Rovers are something to behold. They play in the Gloucestershire town of Nailsworth which is little more than a large village. Currently well out in front at the top of League Two they are punching in excess of their weight by a considerable margin. They could be rubbing shoulders on equal terms with the likes of Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday and Portsmouth next season.

I hope they make it. Some people might even make the short trip from Bristol to watch them as the red and blue teams in the city are abysmal.

They have an interesting owner who is an environmentalist and a vegan - they even play in green shirts. He's introduced such measures at the ground as electric car charging points, water recycling, solar panels and an electric mower for the pitch which is also organic. If fans want a halftime steak pie they are out of luck because only vegan food is served at the ground, even to the players. Perhaps other clubs should follow the vegan route as FGR thrive by it.

Definitely a team to consider if you really have given up on the red-shirted team from Old Trafford. I shall be surprised if you have though. Club loyalty is not easily shaken off once someone has taken a club to their hearts.

Ole doesn't seem in the mood to quit post-match but the owners who have no conception of the soul that drives British football fans might decide otherwise.
 

JENNYJET

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Thank you TLY, you have pulled the reins and stopped me from a potential rash decision. United has been a part of my DNA, my parents had personal links to those that died at Munich and was spoonfed into my thinking and my affiliation grew from that influence.

My current frustrations are with the non team that represents the club and not the club itself. I follow Forest Green because they represent what is good with football and as a member recently said, apologies to the member my leaky memory, the Premier League is not for him.

I am listening to 606 on Radio 5 and the inquest, football is so shallow but engaging, I cannot walk away.
 

TheLocalYokel

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My current frustrations are with the non team that represents the club and not the club itself. I follow Forest Green because they represent what is good with football and as a member recently said, apologies to the member my leaky memory, the Premier League is not for him.
I think that was Kevin speaking about his beloved Walsall. I began watching Bristol City in 1955 when I was still in short trousers. I rarely go these days. Their fans are long-suffering because there have been far more downs than ups over the years but that applies to many clubs of course.

I'm glad you will stick with MUFC, especially after you've described the historical family connection.
 

Kevin Farnell

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I've just been watching the Lionesses v Latvia on ITV4. England won 20 (yes that's twenty!) - nil, including four hat tricks in one match. I did feel a little sorry for the Latvian girls, especially the substitute goalkeeper who had some terrible kick outs. England will face tougher opposition in the future.

Kevin
 

TheLocalYokel

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I've just been watching the Lionesses v Latvia on ITV4. England won 20 (yes that's twenty!) - nil, including four hat tricks in one match. I did feel a little sorry for the Latvian girls, especially the substitute goalkeeper who had some terrible kick outs. England will face tougher opposition in the future.

Kevin
It sounds the sort of mismatch you sometimes get in Division 6 of a local amateur league. At any level, men or women, it's of no value to anyone when games like this happen.

I watched England beat San Marino 10-0 in a World Cup qualifier a few weeks ago. I took no pleasure from the game at all. I like to see two evenly-matched teams whenever possible, unless it's 'my' club when I'll take a win over anyone...well usually. In the early 60s I was at the match when Bristol City beat Chichester 11-0 in the FA Cup and I didn't come away from that game feeling euphoric.

Was this evening's game a friendly match or a competition qualifier?
 

rollo

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It was a womens world cup qualifier. The next best or is it the worst was Republic of Ireland beating Georgia 11-0 Italy beating Scotland 8-0 followed by Switzerland coming a poor fourth only beating Lithuania 7-0 mind you they were away from home.

Me thinks this competition if thats the right description could do with a little tweak of some sort. There were 21 ( one postponed)games across Europe last night in the competition- clearly too many with a lot of heavy defeats.
 
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rollo

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Sorry it was Spain who played Scotland, still 8-0 though.

Italy were hopeless could only beat Romania 5-0 away from home obviously slacking a bit last night.
 

JENNYJET

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Twenty without loss, could have been a cricket score before lunch! The Lionesses can only play those before them the competition rules being what they are. However, there is a ruthlessness that was not evident during Phil Neville 's stewardship.
 

TheLocalYokel

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I've now watched some brief highlights that included all the goals.

JENNYJET is right about the England team playing whoever the competition deems will be the opponents. With the men as well as the women I believe there should be initial qualifying rounds involving the weaker nations so that only the best of them go through to play the stronger countries in the later qualifying matches.

England did look sharp and sleek but in truth any half-decent national team would have made mincemeat of Latvia based on their inept display last night. Inept is probably unfair as they no doubt did their best but were hopelessly outclassed.

The goalkeeper was poor but she stood out as goalkeepers always do when they make mistakes. Outfield mistakes are not as obvious to the casual observer and even in the eight-minute highlights that I watched individual errors and team clangers were taking place all over the pitch.

This is to take nothing from England. As JENNY pointed out they were ruthless. It would have been easy to relax once they'd got into double figures but it was apparent even from a brief look that they were entirely professional in their approach until the end of the match.

Scoring 20 goals in 90 minutes isn't as easy as one might think whoever is the opposition because a surprising amount of time is taken from the game with restarting after each goal and getting the ball back up the pitch in order to score the next goal.

In 1885 Arbroath beat an Aberdeen team called Bon Accord 36-0 in the Scottish Cup with 21 of the goals coming in the second half. They must have raced back to the halfway line after each goal.

In fact, that might not be the record because on the same day another Aberdeen team, Aberdeen Rovers, lost 0-35 at Dundee Harp. It is said the referee made it 37-0 but a Dundee official magnanimously said he made it 35-0. The referee agreed it was difficult to keep count so accepted the Dundee tally of 35-0 as the official result.

The highest score in senior English club football is Preston North End's 26-0 FA Cup victory over Hyde in 1887.

Football in those days was in its infancy with little of the tactics, organisation and skills we take for granted these days and mismatches were commonplace.
 

rollo

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Local Yokel the beginning of your post hits the nail on the head a system similar to the FA Cup which starts off with the the Dog and Duck playing the Someone Strollers or whoever in knock out games then the survivors on merit enter the first round proper etc as obviously you know.

The current system especially in the women's world cup and to a lesser extent the men's competition makes many qualifying games pretty pointless football is not really a game designed for scores with one team being able to score close to or above double figures, supporters want a competitive game but I suppose they are just seen as a cash cow.

Last night five matches out of twenty played produced fifty goals without reply and to be honest for me at least not worth watching even the underdog needs the slightest sniff of a chance to make the game worth watching.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Local Yokel the beginning of your post hits the nail on the head a system similar to the FA Cup which starts off with the the Dog and Duck playing the Someone Strollers or whoever in knock out games then the survivors on merit enter the first round proper etc as obviously you know.

The current system especially in the women's world cup and to a lesser extent the men's competition makes many qualifying games pretty pointless football is not really a game designed for scores with one team being able to score close to or above double figures, supporters want a competitive game but I suppose they are just seen as a cash cow.

Last night five matches out of twenty played produced fifty goals without reply and to be honest for me at least not worth watching even the underdog needs the slightest sniff of a chance to make the game worth watching.
I agree completely.
 
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