How concerned are you about the Coronavirus?


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Worrying reports across the news over recent days regarding the Caronavirus. How concerned are you?
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TheLocalYokel

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Allegations that this is another 'do as I say not as I do' incident of flouting government movement restrictions by someone in the public eye, this time none other than Dominic Cummings. The incident is alleged to have occurred in late March.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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Sack him. With immediate effect. And then should ensure he never goes anywhere near British Politics for the rest of his life. The annoying thing is; no one will be bothered by it. Papers, social media, and Boris fanatics won't see this as doing anything wrong. This is how low we've sunk. 5 years ago, 10 years ago, this would have been outrage, 15/20 years go this would have been on the front of papers for a good few days if not a week. The PM would have had to act and sack and well "justice" will have been served. Yet i guarantee he will still be at the PM's side for the remainder of his term.

Everyone suddenly these days jumps to the government defence.
 

JENNYJET

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I would much prefer to hear or read of the full facts and explanation before climbing upon the bandwagon to see the chap put into the stocks. All I am getting is the usual suspects pontificating about it being a flagrant breach of rules and that he be punished. Putting my legal wig on, I suggest that no law has been breached even if a social faux pas has occurred and having little solid evidence to work with, my remarks shall be limited.

I read and hear, again from the usual suspects, the Police have given advice and that no further action is warranted which is the normal course of events.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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I would much prefer to hear or read of the full facts and explanation before climbing upon the bandwagon to see the chap put into the stocks. All I am getting is the usual suspects pontificating about it being a flagrant breach of rules and that he be punished. Putting my legal wig on, I suggest that no law has been breached even if a social faux pas has occurred and having little solid evidence to work with, my remarks shall be limited.

I read and hear, again from the usual suspects, the Police have given advice and that no further action is warranted which is the normal course of events.
The UK guidelines was, at that time, do not see anybody from outside your own home, do not see parents/grand parents and do not travel further than required coronavirus or not. If you were showing any symptoms you were told to self isolate for 14 days. There are many people out there who have had coronavirus and more than likely passed it onto their spouse. Their children will of been at risk yet they didn't travel to drop the children off at the grand parents so they could self isolate whilst safe guarding their children and at the same time putting their elderly parents at risk.

There has been people who, under these lockdown measures, have not seen parents/grand parents, children/grand children who live 10 minutes way from them for a number of weeks if not months, myself included in this. And i'm sure many people on this forum in similar position. People have died without any loved ones by their sides, many others have witnessed love ones die without the chance to say their final goodbye other than over a FaceTime call or video call via smart phones. Many have had had funerals with very few people attending due to restrictions, others have been buried without any family attending.

There has been major criticism of two medical officers, one in Scotland and the other from SAGE group who have resigned from their positions based on breaking lockdown rules. The Media & British people went mental at seeing people on beaches etc early April. Cornwall & Devon amongst many other natural beauty spots were critical of any people who have holiday homes moving to these places to isolate. They were turned away and sent back to where they come from. This country and its people have sacrificed so much, probably more than i've listed in three paragraphs, based on measures enforced by the very government is defending his actions, and for what?

What he has done is wrong irrespective of political views. Government is now defending a narcissistic poisonous unelected bureaucrat. So as far as i'm concerned the lockdown is over right? We can just go back to normal life. It's okay for him to do what the hell he clearly likes so i guess everyone else can. The Prime Minister and his cabinet are spineless yes people.
 

TheLocalYokel

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I watched part of the BBC tv lunchtime News today and one item concerned the controversy over Dominic Cummings. He was beseiged by reporters and cameramen outside his house who were standing shoulder to shoulder in a heaving mass. I wonder if the irony of the situation was lost on them.

They were covering a story about his alleged ignoring government virus recommendations whilst doing the self-same thing themselves.
 

David_itl

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Before we go round hanging, drawing and quartering Dominic Cummings, where was the mass media outrage at the 2 Labour MPs who have broken government guidelines in the last month? It's the the hypocrisy of the Labour Party and it's devotees that stinks and not the actions of Dominic Cummings.

In fact, one of the memes I have seen on social media today sums up the situation quite nicely regarding peoples' attitudes to governmental guideline: two images; top one is of a school classroom with the caption being "it is far too dangerous to let school children here" and the bottom one is of a child at home with a caption "Hurry up in getting ready...we're going to the beach!".

Throw in an apparent edict to report some non-obvious deaths as "Covid 19" related (I have a friend who had found someome reporting that their deceased grandfather tested negative for it but the death certificates states cause of death Covid 19) makes me wonder if there's something more deeply worrying about the politcisation of the pandemic in trying to get the democratically elected Conservative Party removed from office due to an apparent "mishandling" of what has been occurring. The recent Panorama programme with the dissenting SAGE advisor did have an important thing not brought out widely.... she is the wife of Stephen Kinnock MP, one of the 2 MPs that broken government guidelines.
 

paully

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Before we go round hanging, drawing and quartering Dominic Cummings, where was the mass media outrage at the 2 Labour MPs who have broken government guidelines in the last month? It's the the hypocrisy of the Labour Party and it's devotees that stinks and not the actions of Dominic Cummings.

In fact, one of the memes I have seen on social media today sums up the situation quite nicely regarding peoples' attitudes to governmental guideline: two images; top one is of a school classroom with the caption being "it is far too dangerous to let school children here" and the bottom one is of a child at home with a caption "Hurry up in getting ready...we're going to the beach!".

Throw in an apparent edict to report some non-obvious deaths as "Covid 19" related (I have a friend who had found someome reporting that their deceased grandfather tested negative for it but the death certificates states cause of death Covid 19) makes me wonder if there's something more deeply worrying about the politcisation of the pandemic in trying to get the democratically elected Conservative Party removed from office due to an apparent "mishandling" of what has been occurring. The recent Panorama programme with the dissenting SAGE advisor did have an important thing not brought out widely.... she is the wife of Stephen Kinnock MP, one of the 2 MPs that broken government guidelines.
Very well said. Nail on the head there..The press we have these days is an utter disgrace to a democratic country (supposedly). They are drowning in their own hubris. I`ve stopped watching and reading them. The public, by an large and rapidly coming to that conclusion as well.Boris needs to ignore them and plough on. The main reason they hate him and those around him is that he delivered Brexit..No more no less.
 

Sherburnflyer92

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So it's alright than to travel where the hell you like? And with absolute no consequences? Even whilst the Prime Minister laid in hospital, in critical condition with this disease?

This isn't about left or right or politicising it. It's about what is wrong, morally wrong. You cannot have one piece of advice for the population and then ignore it yourself and think you are above it and will suffer no consequences. Many people in the UK have been sacrificed a-lot, people have not attended funerals, people have not had the chance to say their final goodbyes like they should have, others have had coronavirus whilst looking after their children. And yet some think it's okay for him do do as he likes? Having, more than likely, had the final sign of on the advice himself? I don't buy it sorry.

This isn't political for me. It's about what is wrong considering what many people in the country have been through.
 
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Land23R

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One of the sad things for me about this debate is the polarisation of the more extreme pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown views.
Frankly I can't recall what was said about the 2 Labour MPs who contravened the guidelines. However, for a governing party of whatever persuasion, it is not unreasonable to expect Ministers, MPs and senior officials or advisers to set an example.

On the other hand, the press do have form hanging such people out to dry for alleged misdemeanours, sometimes justified, sometimes not.
What I would say is that it's often better for a PM to act decisively straightaway than wait to see whether or not the furore dies down before then being forced to sack someone.

As far as critcism of HMG is concerned, better to wait until there is a proper enquiry when hopefully accurate data of the number of cases, and deaths in hospitals, in care homes and in the community will be available and can be assessed against the actions taken, as well as compared properly with other countries. It is fair for opposition parties to raise legitimate questions however, and personally I think Starmer, unlike his predecessor, has been quite restrained and rather astute in the way he's done this so far.

In this sort of situation, it surely doesn't mean if you are a Conservative, you must always support the government, nor should those who favour other parties believe they must always oppose or criticise the government.

Just to add one point about those who have died with COVID-19 but had other conditions. As an oldie myself, I have found it very distasteful to read some comments on social media, or in comments to articles in the press, that because the vast majority of those that have died but also had underlying conditions have been elderly, they would probably have died in 2020 or next year anyway. In some cases yes, but having worked in a voluntary capacity in a Care Home for over 10 years either side of the millennium, just about every resident that came in was on medication for 1 condition or more, but it was controlled. Many continued to live there with a reasonable quality of life for a good number of years, some for 15. The phrase sometimes used 'they would have died but not at this time' seems to me to be apt in the context of the virus being the critical factor.
 

JENNYJET

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Yes Mr. Yokel, but will the same press idiots be reporting the illness and death of their friends in the scrum at Cummings place? I think not. Now, the PM has said he is satisfied with the circumstances and as our political leader, I accept his word. To not accept is to perhaps call him a liar. Some have called for an inquiry but at what level? A standard Whitehall job with a panel of 5 Civil Servants all knighted heads of department in a Westminster club dining room having dinner with fine wines or perhaps a fully televised judge led inquiry conducted under courtroom conditions with persons summoned under pain of conviction if fail to attend or co -operate. I can remember a similar moral panic over the Millie Dowler affair and the total collapse of media restraint and the consequences leading to Leveson Inquiry, I am expecting similar when restrictions allow a court of inquiry to sit and then we may get to the facts of the matter of Cummings and the handling of the Covid crisis. Without the media spinning to sell copies or boost ratings.
 

TheLocalYokel

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I don't think it's a case of whether the prime minister's chief adviser broke the law or not. It's the perception of his actions.

Senior politicans and particularly their advisers should be two steps ahead of the game and foresee the possible consequence of any action or lack of action, no matter how ill-informed such consequences might be.

Lots of people will believe that those at the the political captain's table can do one thing whilst the rest of us must do another to combat the virus. In this case some will want to believe it either because they are to the left of centre politically or because they perceive Cummings as a major architect of the Brexit campaign which they oppose.

Nevertheless, there is an obvious major worry that the perception of his actions will weaken the government's strategy message to combat the virus. It's particularly noticeble that a number of Conservative MPs are of this view and believe that Cummings should go.

Some weeks ago Scotlands chief medical officer of health spent a night with her family at their holiday home. Again no law had been broken but she resigned her post for the very reason that her actions might lead to a lessening of the effect of the Scottish Government's virus messages.

It's reported that Cummings will attend a press conference later today.

For the record, I have no party political allegiance and have a healthy mistrust of most politicians of all parties.
 

JENNYJET

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I can agree with most of what Mr. Yokel says yet I can tear apart some of it on a point of interpretation but I have little energy to do so at the moment. As to perception, this in itself is a matter of both interpretation and foresight, something few people are blessed with. Should Mr. Cummings have percieved his actions would annoy the majority or should he stick up for himself and what HE percieved to be an urgent family matter irrespective of his position as an employee of a World Leader, i.e. Prime Minister of UK? He had the resources of State behind him so who advises the advisor? His family home is Durham, his work is in Westminster, he made a choice and understandably chose family before media humbug, and I might agree but I have not given much thought to the matter, I have more pressing issues to deal with.
 

TheLocalYokel

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I listened to Dominic Cummings and the subsequent press conference. I was not impressed by his performance.

He reiterated his reasons for going to Durham in the first place which have been debated endlessly in the past few days.

He then had to address the Barnard Castle incident as on his own admission he was seen there by someone who recognised him.

His reasoning was that he wished to return to London and that he had obtained medical advice to say he was fit to do so. However, the day before the planned return journey he was worried that the after effects of his illness might make him unfit to drive such a long way; specifically he was concerned about his eyesight .

Therefore he and his wife determined that a test drive to Barnard Castle, about 30 minutes away, would be just the thing to check his fitness for the longer journey. She went with him and when they arrived they took a break, which happened to be beside a river, before returning to Durham content in the knowledge that a trip back to London was within his capabilities. I understand that Barnard Castle is a popular tourist town.

Was a test run to assess driving fitness an essential journey under the guidance in force at the time? It had nothing to do with the welfare of the child that Cummings asserts was a discretionary option under that guidance available to anyone.

What if he had driven a couple of miles towards Barnard Castle and felt unable to drive further? How would he and his wife have returned to where they were staying? If she can drive then that’s an obvious solution, but it also begs the question why go for a test drive at all if Mrs Cummings was perfectly capable of taking over the driving to London should her husband have found it too much for him en route?

What too if the post-COVID effects were affecting his driving and had caused him to have an accident on his test run?

One of the journalists asked him at the press conference why it was necessary to drive thirty minutes to Barnard Castle. He could easily have started the trip to London and, if he was unable to continue after thirty minutes, return whence he came (assuming his wife was not capable of taking over). If she wasn't he would be in the same situation if part-way through the test run to Barnard Castle he had felt unable to continue.

Whereas I can appreciate that he considered driving to Durham was acceptable for the welfare of his child, I can’t accept that his drive to Barnard Castle was in any way necessary or within the government guidance that he had helped to formulate. Not only that, it was potentially dangerous and foolish in the extreme given the uncertainty of his driving capability. If anyone has any doubt about their eyesight they should never get behind the wheel of a car without having their eyes checked first by a professional in that field.

My wife and I have stuck rigidly to government guidance unlike some of our neighbours, but they are not senior advisers to the prime minister. Having left our car in the garage for umpteen weeks I now learn that the PM’s right-hand man found a reason to take a 30-minute jaunt to a beauty spot.

Not only that but the PM has described his actions as legal and reasonable. Driving with potentially defective eyesight?!
 

aviatorconcorde

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I was originally furious about Cummings, but have now mellowed a bit after he explained the situation. Still very ill timed I don’t think he should of been out on a test drive anyway.

Meanwhile. In another covid news, i’m very much hoping Wales brings an end to the lockdown this weeks and starts opening up the country, support is falling rapidly.
 

Aviador

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We had a bit of a todo with one of our neighbours on a Messenger chat.

One of the neighbours made accusations that "some people" on our street were flouting the rules while they were adhering to them. She went on to claim her sister was in hospital seriously ill with covid and "those" people who were flouting the rules were being disrespectful.

Mrs Aviador thought she was having a go at us because we had been letting out children play in front of our home.

The funny thing about this was two days later her seriously ill sister parked up outside the neighbours house with husband and children and then went into said house.

Clearly she is in the do as I say not as I do category.
 

rollo

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Personally I think that Dominic Cummings strictly speaking was wrong doing what he did but giving his somewhat unique circumstances not least a continual press core outside his house and not not to mention the baying mob knowing where he lives protesting and indeed threatening him.

Given those circumstances and the option to disappear to the wilds of the northeast whilst threatened with the virus and the mob to protect my family I would have done something similar and certainly kept my location quiet from the media/public.
 

Aviador

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At the general election nobody could've imagined the crisis which was to follow. Boris didn't want all this to deal with, he just wanted to "get Brexit done" and to live happily ever after.

The country knew that Corbyn wasn't the right man. They were unsure about Boris but decided he was the better man of the two.

Cummings "cheats" and "lies" through the Brexit campaign worked for Boris. It got him what he wanted, but then keeping Dom after the election was probably not the right thing to do once the "real world" politics took over.

Running a real life crisis as if it's just another Brexit campaign where you can just fob things off and do the opposite of what is being asked was never going to be a winning combination to see the government through this crisis.

Prior to Domgate, and specifically relating to aviation I have repeatedly said all people ask is for clarity. Sadly this has been the problem throughout this crisis with all the rules. Instead of clarity we have had wishiwoshy rules that people have had to make their own interpretation of.

The Police were told they were overkilling their new powers so they backed off and then the roads, supermarkets and beaches filled up. Dominic, "the adviser", arguably couldn't even understand his own rules he was advising the government to ask us all to follow.

There has been so little clarity, even today, people are devided as to whether Dominic was in the wrong or not, and the saga goes on....
 

TheLocalYokel

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I'm still amazed at the lack of condemnation for his test drive.

He was recovering from his illness and had been told by his medical advisers that he was fit enough to return to London but he wasn't sure that his eyesight was up to driving all that way.

So what does he do? He decides to go for a test drive on public roads taking with him his wife and child. If after a short while along the way he found that his eyesight really wasn't up to driving he had risked the life of his family and other road users.

Cummimgs said it was important for him to get back to assist government in this crisis. If that was truly the case a car and driver could have been sent to return him to London. The fact that his test drive happened to be to a local beauty spot where they got out and sat by a river for a few minutes will make cynics and others wonder about the real reason for the journey.

The prime minister had been briefed by Cummings prior to the latter's press conference so would have been in full possession of the facts as relayed by his adviser at the conference, yet the PM still maintained his aide's actions were reasonable and lawful.

We are always told that if you are driving and feel drowsy pull over and stop, yet the PM seems to be saying it's all right to drive to make sure your vision is up to driving if you have doubts that it might not be. No it isn't. The correct action is not to drive at all but to consult an optician or medical practioner before going back onto the road.

Apart from anything else it's a criminal offfence to drive with defective, uncorrected vision.
 
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