Worrying reports across the news over recent days regarding the Caronavirus. How concerned are you?
Last edited:
How concerned are you about the Coronavirus?
- Category Community
- Category General Topics
- Thread starter Aviador
- Start date
No, that's exactly how viruses propagate. They have no ability to reproduce independently. They replicate by invading a host cell. They then hijack the genetic 'machinery' of that cell, forcing it to make copies of the virus. The cell eventually ruptures releasing the new viruses, which are expelled from the host and go on to infect another.
If the virus lost the ability to re-infect simply by it's first infection then the world wouldn't be in the position it is today.
Kevin
I had the following in an email from a friend of mine who has now retired from an NHS hospital:
Bit of context here not specifically referenced in this article although i would stress I'm not medical.
I worked on AMU Acute medical, this accepted patients not classed as emergency cases until proven otherwise.
Patients would go to the doctor with a particular complaint, in the case of blood clots it might possibly be a leg swelling or breathlessness.
Conservatively i would say at least a dozen who came to us every week would have the symptoms written by the GP on their notes.
" Query PE".
Pulmonary embolism
At least 4 or were usually confirmed by scan , sent home and put on Warfarin and referred to DVT clinic.
If one hospital has that volume of confirmed cases and given there are 1250 hospitals in the UK the coincidental incidence of people having a jab but coincidentally getting a PE not related to the jab must surely be high ?
To me its a random diagnosis that the EU and indeed some other countries have latched onto, to delay and prevaricate as this is then an easy excuse to suggest we are not giving you the jab because we don't have any but because of "possible" inherent dangers. Of course if one country waves the white flag other regulatory authorities are obliged to stop and investigate themselves.
It is however an easy narrative to spin out to the populous that buys time if you have completely screwed up your supply chain , to me it's all about delay whilst they scramble to secure more stock.
But just look at this headline
Vaccine is safe AFTER 7 MORE DEATHS...
The headline suggests people have died specifically due to the vaccine.
Unless more evidence is produced to me at least its utter tosh.
You could easily say
Vaccine is safe after 7 more deaths from heart attack,
diabetes,
pneumonia....
Shall we get really daft and include say road accidents?
All are equally likely on the basis of such a high figure of 18m jabs, which is what the findings were based on, lord knows what it will be now with 32m covered !
.....people naturally get things, my God we have now vaccinated 60% of the
population !
Bit of context here not specifically referenced in this article although i would stress I'm not medical.
I worked on AMU Acute medical, this accepted patients not classed as emergency cases until proven otherwise.
Patients would go to the doctor with a particular complaint, in the case of blood clots it might possibly be a leg swelling or breathlessness.
Conservatively i would say at least a dozen who came to us every week would have the symptoms written by the GP on their notes.
" Query PE".
Pulmonary embolism
At least 4 or were usually confirmed by scan , sent home and put on Warfarin and referred to DVT clinic.
If one hospital has that volume of confirmed cases and given there are 1250 hospitals in the UK the coincidental incidence of people having a jab but coincidentally getting a PE not related to the jab must surely be high ?
To me its a random diagnosis that the EU and indeed some other countries have latched onto, to delay and prevaricate as this is then an easy excuse to suggest we are not giving you the jab because we don't have any but because of "possible" inherent dangers. Of course if one country waves the white flag other regulatory authorities are obliged to stop and investigate themselves.
It is however an easy narrative to spin out to the populous that buys time if you have completely screwed up your supply chain , to me it's all about delay whilst they scramble to secure more stock.
But just look at this headline
Vaccine is safe AFTER 7 MORE DEATHS...
The headline suggests people have died specifically due to the vaccine.
Unless more evidence is produced to me at least its utter tosh.
You could easily say
Vaccine is safe after 7 more deaths from heart attack,
diabetes,
pneumonia....
Shall we get really daft and include say road accidents?
All are equally likely on the basis of such a high figure of 18m jabs, which is what the findings were based on, lord knows what it will be now with 32m covered !
.....people naturally get things, my God we have now vaccinated 60% of the
population !
Last edited:
Given my condition, being vascular by nature, DVT is a daily consideration and preventive measures are called for. Compression stockings are basic and exercise useful but clots did for me and am living with the consequences. Nothing whatsoever to do with Covid 19 as my medical incident occurred 2001 and is ongoing.
Note: I am yet to receive a dose of the vaccine subject to assessment of risk by medical practitioners!
Note: I am yet to receive a dose of the vaccine subject to assessment of risk by medical practitioners!
I believe that the figure of 18.1 million jabs is for the Oxford vaccination only and the blood clot figure of 30 equates to one person in 600,000 of getting one while the figure of seven deaths is one in 2.6million or in otherwords infinitesimal in relation to the risk of covid itself, specific medical conditions excepted.
I think Sottie Dogs friend talks sense.
I think Sottie Dogs friend talks sense.
Roadmap Reviews: Update
www.gov.uk
Roadmap Reviews: Update
1.2 Global Travel Taskforce
The Government wants to see a return to non-essential international travel as soon as possible, while still managing the risk from imported cases and variants of concern. The Government hopes people will be able to travel to and from the UK to take a summer holiday this year, but it is still too soon to know what is possible.The roadmap said that any return to international travel without a reasonable excuse, for example for holidays, would be no earlier than 17 May. Given the state of the pandemic abroad, and the progress of vaccination programmes in other countries, we are not yet in a position to confirm that non-essential international travel can resume from that point. Taking into account the latest situation with variants and the evidence about the efficacy of vaccines against them, we will confirm in advance whether non-essential international travel can resume on 17 May, or whether we will need to wait longer before lifting the outbound travel restriction.
When non-essential international travel does return it will do so with a risk-based “traffic light” system. This will add to our current system a new green category with no isolation requirement on return to the UK - although pre-departure and post-arrival tests would still be needed. This new category will accommodate countries where we judge the risk to be lower, based for instance on vaccinations, infection rates, the prevalence of variants of concern, and their genomic sequencing capacity (or access to genomic sequencing). The Global Travel Taskforce will publish its report, setting out more details on this system, later this week.
It is too early to say which countries will be on the green list when non-essential international travel resumes. These decisions will be driven by the data and evidence nearer the time, which we cannot predict now. In advance of the resumption of non-essential international travel, we will set out our initial assessment of which countries will fall into which category. Thereafter countries will move between the red, amber and green lists depending on the data. For the moment, the Government advises people not to book summer holidays abroad until the picture is clearer.
The vaccination programme could offer a more stable route out of the need for such restrictions - provided we see sufficient efficacy against any variants of concern - which means the role of COVID-status certification is crucial to this work. The current intention is that, when non-essential international travel does resume, the NHS solution will facilitate international travel where certification is required, and we will look to establish arrangements with other countries and international organisations to establish mutual recognition of certificates.
Not a double post. I inadvertently put this post in the wrong thread initially. I've now deleted that post.
We were speaking to our daughter today who lives with her family in Victoria, Australia near that state'e second city, Geelong.
She told us that life is pretty much fully back to normal there.
Shops, hospitality, venues etc are back to full capacity, with no masks or COVID measures.
Most work places are back fully with no masks or special measures required, although some have chosen to continue with a hybrid work model.
Most sporting and performance events have near capacity crowds permitted.
In the vast majority of places and situations there are no longer any pointers to COVID, or any restrictions arising from it.
Australia has managed the pandemic as well as any country but still clamps down hard on any sign of infections. There are intermittent short lockdowns - the most recent in Brisbane - which seem to work. These lockdowns address a tiny infection rate that would not even be noticed in the UK.
This shows what can be done, albeit Australia is a big country and relatively remote. Nevertheless, 40% of its 25 million inhabitants live in the cities of Sydney and Melbourne, and around 80% live in the country's 100 largest cities and towns so it's not a case of everyone being spread out across that vast land.
We were speaking to our daughter today who lives with her family in Victoria, Australia near that state'e second city, Geelong.
She told us that life is pretty much fully back to normal there.
Shops, hospitality, venues etc are back to full capacity, with no masks or COVID measures.
Most work places are back fully with no masks or special measures required, although some have chosen to continue with a hybrid work model.
Most sporting and performance events have near capacity crowds permitted.
In the vast majority of places and situations there are no longer any pointers to COVID, or any restrictions arising from it.
Australia has managed the pandemic as well as any country but still clamps down hard on any sign of infections. There are intermittent short lockdowns - the most recent in Brisbane - which seem to work. These lockdowns address a tiny infection rate that would not even be noticed in the UK.
This shows what can be done, albeit Australia is a big country and relatively remote. Nevertheless, 40% of its 25 million inhabitants live in the cities of Sydney and Melbourne, and around 80% live in the country's 100 largest cities and towns so it's not a case of everyone being spread out across that vast land.
And what’s international travel like in Australia? How normal is that?
You can aim to get to zero covid and pull up the drawbridge if you wish - it is a legitimate strategy - but the consequence is you remain isolated for years until the pandemic is over, so don’t expect to travel there until 2022/2023. Also because there is so little infection there vaccine uptake is low since people feel there is no incentive to get it, again prolonging the period until Australia can reconnect with the rest of the world.
I am not sure that is normal.
You can aim to get to zero covid and pull up the drawbridge if you wish - it is a legitimate strategy - but the consequence is you remain isolated for years until the pandemic is over, so don’t expect to travel there until 2022/2023. Also because there is so little infection there vaccine uptake is low since people feel there is no incentive to get it, again prolonging the period until Australia can reconnect with the rest of the world.
I am not sure that is normal.
Australia has been able to achieve this because of a very strict border policy, one I'm not sure would have worked in the UK.
Due to its isolated nature, most imports into Australia come from either air or sea, where it is easy to quarantine crews either in airport hotels or by remaining on the ship. Due to the channel tunnel and short ferry crossings, a lot of imported goods arrive on HGV's and therefore the same can't be done in the UK.
The Australian health minister recently suggested borders might not reopen even once the whole country is vaccinated:
www.smh.com.au
Sooner or later Australia will re-open its borders, and given the likely annual if not more frequent new mutation rate of covid (there's currently 4 variants of concern to the UK government, each having first emerged in the last ~6 months), it is highly likely some of the population won't be vaccinated against the most recent variant. A number of people have suggested once Australia does re-open its borders (and New Zealand for that matter) that they will have a large outbreak of Covid, and that all the border restrictions will have done is delay this.
Consider that in the USA at the moment, besides either being required or encouraged to wear face masks (state dependent), life is largely proceeding as normal there:
Besides short/isolated city wide lockdowns, the idea of strict restrictions and weeks/months long national lockdowns is largely confined to Europe. Despite this Europe has had more cases of Covid than any other continent.
Due to its isolated nature, most imports into Australia come from either air or sea, where it is easy to quarantine crews either in airport hotels or by remaining on the ship. Due to the channel tunnel and short ferry crossings, a lot of imported goods arrive on HGV's and therefore the same can't be done in the UK.
The Australian health minister recently suggested borders might not reopen even once the whole country is vaccinated:
International borders might not open even if whole country is vaccinated: Greg Hunt
The Health Minister suggested Australia’s international border closures could stay in place even if the entire population had been vaccinated against COVID-19.
Sooner or later Australia will re-open its borders, and given the likely annual if not more frequent new mutation rate of covid (there's currently 4 variants of concern to the UK government, each having first emerged in the last ~6 months), it is highly likely some of the population won't be vaccinated against the most recent variant. A number of people have suggested once Australia does re-open its borders (and New Zealand for that matter) that they will have a large outbreak of Covid, and that all the border restrictions will have done is delay this.
Consider that in the USA at the moment, besides either being required or encouraged to wear face masks (state dependent), life is largely proceeding as normal there:
See Coronavirus Restrictions and Mask Mandates for All 50 States
The rules for businesses and residents remain a patchwork across the country as governors balance curbing the virus with boosting local economies.
www.nytimes.com
Besides short/isolated city wide lockdowns, the idea of strict restrictions and weeks/months long national lockdowns is largely confined to Europe. Despite this Europe has had more cases of Covid than any other continent.
A quarantine-free travel corridor with New Zealand is about to be opened as far as I'm aware. Other than that there are strict measures with very limited international connectivity. There are limits on the number of Australian citizens allowed to return home from abroad. Domestic travel is getting back to normality, including air travel.
Our daughter, son-in-law and two adult grandsons have lived in Australia for 12 years. We visit them most years but didn't do so in 2019 expecting to go again in 2020. So that worked out well - not. We don't anticipate being allowed into Australia until 2022 at the very earliest, with 2023 or even later being more likely, assuming we are both still around then and still want to flog across to the other side of the planet.
Because of Australia's geographical position perhaps it is easier for them to 'pull up the drawbridge'. No pandemic strategy can be perfect and Australia's seems to suit the majority of those living there. I accept that Europe presents other challenges with countries cheek by jowl compared with Australia, and withe greater population densities.
Which is essentially why everyone who is healthy has the jab to help protect vulnerable people such as yourself. I'm currently queuing to have my first jabs. I've had the virus, but having more immunity will help protect less fortunate members of my family and friends.
Aviador Sir, I am indeed vulnerable to infection and live in isolation for that reason as a simple Cold could finish me in double quick time. My doctors have suggested I delay vaccination until I am medically fit enough to deal potential side effects and have yet to receive an invitation to attend. The NHS and myself do not get along since previous encounters were unpleasant and at times fractious given my refusals to accept certain invasive treatments. I am, within myself, quite healthy and in isolation thus I am unconcerned for myself but I think of those persons I have connections with, this forum being amongst them and hope they avail themselves of protection!
Out of interest which vaccine did you have?
All my relatives have had Oxford/Astrazenca and anecdotally I've seen/heard the younger you are, the "stronger" you're reaction is.
My 91 year old grandmother had no reaction to the first dose (though did have one to the second dose). My parents in their 60's felt a bit lousy the next day with bad headaches. My 30 year old sister was basically bed bound the next day she felt that ill.
2 days after the jab they all were back to normal though, so by tomorrow @Aviador I think you'll be too!
I had the Astra jab and it knocked me for six for a whole 24 hours after and I didn't feel right for another 24 hours after that. My dad whose 69 didn't have any side effects.