HS2 - the advantages and disadvantages for BHX


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HPsauce

New Member
Feb 11, 2020
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Birmingham B36
About 7 years ago, i was talking to someone working for HS2, they were appalled at the amateurish costings for the purchase of land and properties/businesses on the route. I recall him saying land had been costed at £100 per acre, when it was in fact nearer to £100,000 !!. Needless to say he was looking to leave them asap as he could see them being "found out".
 

richard winterbourn

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2015
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Now the die has been cast for HS2 into Birmingham, those of us who have an affinity with the city will surely want Curzon Street Station to be a focal point. In the likelihood that lines and services will not be running until 2030/31, those with the local power (ie Mayor Street and others) should press ahead with the building and completion of Curzon Street.

Even while the trains might be a long way off, this station is going to be an icon of which the city is going to feel proud and will help elevate Brum into one of the most progressive cities in Europe. It will further enhance the city's standing as a place to visit and do business.

For this element of the work, what is to stop this happening? The architectural digs have been completed, the land is ready, the diggers and earth movers are on site. And the city (and i mean Brum) wants this work to progress with the utmost haste...

To quote a modern idiom: 'Let's get this done!'
 

jfy1999

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Apr 25, 2015
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Birmingham
Hard luck if you live in places such as Northampton or Milton Keynes. You will only have the slow "stopping train".
I've seen this issue raised a few times and I'm not sure it's as big an issue as its made out to be. Since the WCML has four tracks south of Rugby, there can still be a mix of slow and semi-fast services between New Street and Euston.

As this discussion is in the BHX forum I'll leave an observation from the BHX perspective - moving express trains to HS2 will mean that the frequency of stopping services from the likes of Northampton and Milton Keynes into Birmingham International can be increased to give potential air travellers from those towns more flexibility.
 

HPsauce

New Member
Feb 11, 2020
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Birmingham B36
I sincerely hope there is still a choice for passengers. I did hear some suggestion that regular express services (as we have today) will be reduced to allow more freight train use. Time will tell I guess!!.
 

Brum X

Premium Member Plus
Mar 23, 2011
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Birmingham UK
One thing we can be sure of : HS2 will end up way over the £106 billion currently touted. At the moment the cost to taxpayers is running at £4000 each!!. Hard luck if you live in places such as Northampton or Milton Keynes. You will only have the slow "stopping train".
And how much is Crossrail in London costing where most of us in the rest of the UK will probably never use. There will always be winners and losers. however this is about building a transport infrastructure fit for the future.

It is disgraceful that even countries like Spain has high speed rail, yet here in good old blighty, which invented the rail is soooooooo behind other countries.
 

Ianbutty

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2016
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Essex
The tax payer cost is an interesting one. It is odd that people have an aversion for the tax payer paying for things. Firstly that is what we pay tax for. Secondly this is an investment which will be recouped over time through greater economic activity and guess what, tax receipts, amongst others and thirdly when something is delivered by the private sector, guess who really pays? The tax payer whether it be through fees, charges, our pensions (for a return on our investment) or through companies off setting tax against their investment.

So either way we all pay.

HS2 is a truly amazing commitment. Rail was the transport of the 19th century. The motor car the transport of the 20th century and the train is back. The only way we will all get around more freely and efficiently is by increasing choice.

Buses and an off road cycle network will be next.

Cannot wait.
 

Ianbutty

Platinum Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,151
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Essex
Noting the thread name change:

Advantages to BHX - too many to list, but will try a few...accessibility, profile, infrastructure, catchment now includes half of London, airline attractiveness (quicker to London than Stansted), the city will boom even more and on and on

Disadvantages - London Birmingham Airport?
 

RichL

Member
Jun 30, 2018
70
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Birmingham, UK
I’m not totally sure this thread isn’t tongue in cheek and I’m falling for it hook, line, sinker but let’s not get too ahead of ourselves.

What are we looking at here realistically? A decade until this thing is up and running properly? For a rail equivalent of the M6 toll?

Would be great to think of those ‘American’ airlines using BHX but really? Our American friends are enticed by the London Heathrow and London Gatwick names, believing they are outside Buckingham palace when they get off the plane. Yes I get the difference of the time it takes from Stanstead into London compared to Birmingham into London - but come on folks Heathrow express is 15 mins into London, Gatwick express is 30. HS2 will be what, 60 to 70 minutes?

Let’s not run before we can walk eh?
 

Ray Finkle

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Staff member
Apr 22, 2012
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Birmingham
Been working away so I am a bit behind on this one but what fantastic news for Birmingham. There is a huge amount of work going on around Coleshill, Water Orton and out towards the M42 and I can't wait for it to ramp up even more in the coming years :)

There is little doubt in my mind that Greater Birmingham will see a boost off the back of this and the airport must be in a position to make the most of it. With the Prime Minister commenting that getting from Central London to BHX will 'compare favourably' to a taxi from LHR (see below) I would have expected those at BHX to be all over the media flogging this for as much worth as they can get, yet I've heard nothing! I'm convinced that Mr Kehoe would have been all over this banging the drum louder and louder, yet Mr Barton seems to be still MIA?

We had the 'once in a lifetime' opportunity of a new terminal connected to HS2 and that was left to fall by the wayside. This is another one being handed to them on a plate, they cannot mess this one up, can they? :nailbiting:

LINK

But to my mind the most revealing comments in the entire Commons session today came when Johnson riffed about the merits of not just extra capacity but faster journey times. It’s worth quoting in full this section: “Passengers arriving at Birmingham Airport will be able to get to central London by train in 38 minutes, which compares favourably with the time it takes to get from Heathrow by taxi, a point I just draw to the attention of the House…”

Yes, Birmingham Airport will be as easy to reach from central London as Heathrow. He added that HS2 was “also considerably faster than the Piccadilly line”, a knowing reference to the fact that the Tube journey to the capital’s western airport takes nearly 50 minutes. For good measure, the PM said of a third runway at Heathrow: “I see no bulldozers at present, nor any immediate prospect of them arriving”.

Former infrastructure minister Jim O’Neill let slip earlier today that he used to joke to Mayor Johnson that if HS2 went ahead, he could “forget Heathrow and Gatwick...you could do the airport expansion at Birmingham International” instead. Judging from the PM’s remarks today, that’s not a joke any more, it’s a deadly serious proposition.
 

Ray Finkle

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Apr 22, 2012
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Birmingham
Hmm, pure hyperbole.
Most likely but why haven't BHX spun it into some much needed publicity? Getting the airport into the local, maybe even national, media cannot be a bad thing.

“There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”

― Oscar Wilde
 

Ray Finkle

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 22, 2012
12,543
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Birmingham
At least the MD of TfWM has seen potential.

Well done Laura (y)

Full article: https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/hs2-allows-birmingham-to-free-up-londons-busy-airports-14-02-2020/

Shoaf told New Civil Engineer that Birmingham Airport's £500M expansion coupled with HS2 provided a “huge opportunity to help alleviate capacity concerns in the South-East [airports], and will allow Birmingham to act as a central hub for anyone visiting the north and south of the country”.

As well as providing better links to the South East, Shoaf said that HS2 will also prevent West Midlands residents from needing to use London Airports.

“As somebody who lives in the West Midlands, it is very difficult to get to Birmingham Airport, as the links are limited,” Shoaf said. “You are almost forced to go to Heathrow. It’s not good for the roads, it’s not good for people, and it leads to overcrowding. HS2 starts to [tackle] that.”
 

Brum X

Premium Member Plus
Mar 23, 2011
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Birmingham UK
“As somebody who lives in the West Midlands, it is very difficult to get to Birmingham Airport, as the links are limited,” Shoaf said. “You are almost forced to go to Heathrow. It’s not good for the roads, it’s not good for people, and it leads to overcrowding. HS2 starts to [tackle] that.”

I don't understand the above quote though, how is BHX difficult to get too compared to LHR ?? I would say it is the opposite ??
 

Ray Finkle

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 22, 2012
12,543
265
Birmingham
“As somebody who lives in the West Midlands, it is very difficult to get to Birmingham Airport, as the links are limited,” Shoaf said. “You are almost forced to go to Heathrow. It’s not good for the roads, it’s not good for people, and it leads to overcrowding. HS2 starts to [tackle] that.”

I don't understand the above quote though, how is BHX difficult to get too compared to LHR ?? I would say it is the opposite ??
Yeah, it all kind of fell apart there didn't it? :LOL:

At least she's trying though :)
 

RichL

Member
Jun 30, 2018
70
18
46
Birmingham, UK
Most likely but why haven't BHX spun it into some much needed publicity? Getting the airport into the local, maybe even national, media cannot be a bad thing.

“There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”

― Oscar Wilde
I totally agree. I mean really, the city the size of Birmingham cannot command ONE flight to Newark or JFK? Even if it were to operate Monday, Wednesday and Friday?

Everyone goes to Heathrow or up the road and are fine with that. Beggars belief.
 
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