Emirates and AMR in partnership talks


Emirates is in talks with American Airlines parent AMR to launch a partnership that will involve codesharing on flights and reciprocal frequent flier benefits.

The two carriers have been in discussions since late last year, says Emirates president Tim Clark at Washington Dulles airport today.

"It hasn't been consummated but we hope it will be done fairly soon," he says, adding that the ball is in AMR's court and acknowledging that the airline has several issues to attend to currently.

AMR filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in November 2011.

American currently codeshares with Emirates' Gulf rival, Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways, but it is not clear what will happen to that partnership if it firms up ties with Emirates.

Clark says that whether American chooses to retain its partnership with Etihad is up to them, and adds that Emirates has not placed any condition on American to drop its links with Etihad in order to work with the Dubai-based airline.

Emirates launched its inaugural service from between Dubai and Washington today, adding its seventh destination in the USA. Washington is the third new US destination for Emirates this year after Dallas-Fort Worth and Seattle.

Forging a partnership with AMR will help Emirates raise its presence in the USA by "a few notches", says Clark. The Gulf carrier also has existing partnerships with Alaska Airlines and JetBlue.

Emirates and American signed a mail-only codeshare to Dubai and points beyond in August 2008.

Emirates recently announced a 10-year agreement with American's Oneworld partner Qantas Airways that will involve Qantas moving its Asian hub from Singapore to Dubai. Clark, however, indicates that the Qantas agreement has no bearing on its plans to partner with American. He points out that the Qantas tie-up does not extend to the USA, even though he was quick to add that "that could change".
 
A discussion ensued about Emirates in the Passenger Forum and Frequent Flyer Review section of this website from a trip report Avalon-Sydney-Avalon with Jetstar.

I've copied the relevant posts into this Emirates thread so that, if required, the discussion can continue here.

Posted by TheLocalYokel Sun Dec 09 2012 5.53pm

A great review, thanks for posting..........................Just out of interest who did you fly to/from Australia with on this trip?
Thank you for those kind words, ray.

We've used Emirates to Melbourne Tullamarine, changing aircraft at Dubai, for the past three years - the first time from Birmingham (there is a trip review in the Passenger Forum and Frequent Flyer Review section of this site) but this year and last year from Gatwick.

We'd like to have used BHX again as it's quite convenient for Bristol but we rely on a major long-haul travel specialist to get us the best deals which were from LGW in 2011 and 2012.

Because of a back condition my wife could not sit in a normal seat for 24 hours so we have to go in a premium cabin. Our travel company has found us first-class fares at little more than the normal business-class prices which this year included four nights hotel accommodation in Oz at a decent hotel - we chose the Radisson Blu near Circular Quay in Sydney.

Apart from 2010 when we used the two-class BHX service between there and DXB, all the other flights have been in suites, always in Boeing 777-300s until this year when the DXB-MEL-DXB legs were in A380s. The suites are identical in both aircraft (there are eight in the 777 and 14 in the 380) but the ceiling seems lower in the 380. On the other hand the 380 has larger toilet areas that include a shower.

We've managed to get decent sleeps in full-length beds each time which has virtually removed jet lag on every trip - so that alone is worth a bit. The flight back leaves Tullamarine at 2225 local time and the 13 hour-plus duration to DXB is entirely in the dark. We have a full meal and drinks in the excellent Emirates lounge at MEL (the ones at LGW and BHX are of the same standard) before boarding, then I have a couple of large brandies on the aircraft which means I sleep very well (I'm not normally that good a sleeper on the ground let alone in the air).

Melbourne and Sydney, though both very large cities, are different in character. Sydney has more of a US feel (its CBD is very like New York) whereas Melbourne though it has some of the southern hemisphere's highest buildings is more European, perhaps more elegant, with its wide thoroughfares planned on a grid system around its CBD. They are both great cities on the world scene, intense rivals though they actually complement each other in my opinion and thoroughly enjoyable experiences.

We've also visited Adelaide (I posted a trip report from MEL to Adelaide with Virgin Australia, formerly Virgin Blue, last year) which, although it has a metropolitan population of around one million, has more of the feel of a large country town. It's an impressive city, nonetheless, and well worth a visit.

Incidentally, I went from one end of the aviation spectrum to the other on this trip, as my daughter kindly got me up in a Tiger Moth for a flight above the Great Ocean Road coastline. I had to dress up like Biggles.

Posted by ray finkle Sun Dec 09 2012 8.59pm

Thanks for the reply. We've always used Emirates, with BHX only ten minutes away from here it's the obvious choice, we've thoroughly enjoyed every flight. Oddly enough I've only flown the 777 once, DXB-BHX the last time we went back in 2006. We flew the evening A330 from BHX before it was upgraded and have had A340-300's and A340-500's between DXB and Aus with the latter being an extremely quiet aircraft. Unfortunately we've only ever done it in economy but I fancy giving business a try next time (I too find it difficult to sleep on planes) to avoid the jet lag, which seemed to be alot worse going there than coming back.

I remember departing Perth around 22:00 with the entire journey back to DXB being in the dark. Not much to see below in the Indian Ocean but the lights of what I worked out the be the Maldives were the standout moment. It was all worth it as we were greeted with the most amazing sunrise over the desert just before we arrived.

Thanks for the words on Melbourne, it will most definitely be on the itinerary next time we get to go back, and thanks again for the reviews I've enjoyed reading them and recalling some happy memories.

I bet the Tiger Moth was a great experience?

Posted by TheLocalYokel Sun Dec 09 2012 9.45pm

The Tiger Moth was fantastic - exhilarating! We didn't do any aerobatics but did do one or two tight turns (I thought they were anyway - no doubt they didn't even signify with the pilot).

The last two trips back from MEL have flown over Sri Lanka and the southern tip of India whereas the one before that flew further south as did all the outbounds.

Emirates' ICE (Information, Communication, Entertainment) system (it seems to be generally acknowledged as the best IFE system in the world) includes two Airshow channels that offer an incredibly comprehensive story of the flight as it unfolds. There is as much information, presented in digital moving map form with continually updated statistics that give out all the facts of the flight that one could possibly wish for.

In addition the A380s have a forward mounted camera high up on the tail plane, as well as a forward one on the flight deck and a downward facing one (the last two also on the 777s), that give an entirely different dimension to flying as a passenger, and you can switch from camera to camera as you please as part of the Airshow. I especially enjoy the take-off and the landing sequence as you get a pilot's-eye view or, with the 380, that of someone hitching a ride up on the tail plane.

I don't know if all these features were present in 2006.

Posted by ray finkle Sun Dec 09 2012 10.44pm

Flying DXB to/from Sydney took us over the very southern tip of India and Sri Lanka but Perth routed further west with the Maldives being the first sight of land I noticed after leaving the Australian coast. I guess there's a vast distance between the East and West coast of Aus so the routings will vary.

Back then the ICE system (which I agree is fantastic) had a flight data screen which was pretty much an aircraft showing the approximate routing with height, speed and time to destination shown underneath. I imagine things may have changed since then. There were just the two cameras the forward one on the flight deck and the downward facing one, and agree the landing and take off sequences were excellent, especially in the A345 where the take off roll seemed never ending. There was no camera on the tail plane but it looks an interesting view, there is a video taken onboard the A380 at BHX I'll try and find it.

Posted by ray finkle Sun Dec 09 2012 10.51pm

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQKoWW_OVqA[/video]


And a similar view of the landing, complete with shots of all the spectators.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYq4L6KHGQ[/video]

Posted by TheLocalYokel Mon Dec 10 12.56pm

Great videos - certainly brings the experience to life.

I found that that although the ICE system is the same on the 777 and 380 the Air Show is slightly different on the 380. I wouldn't say it was better or worse than the 777, just a variation in graphics though all the information is still there.

Having done some Internet checking since yesterday I believe the original ICE was introduced in 2003 but significantly upgraded in 2007.

I've not experienced anything yet with Emirates that would send me rushing to look for another airline.

Dubai Airport is not a pleasant experience in that it's very, very crowded in the public areas as you will know, ray. My wife says it's like being in a shopping centre at New Year's sales time.

Posted by ray finkle Mon Dec 10 2012 5.17pm

Looks as though we just missed out on the upgraded ICE system, but even before it was still excellent. My only complaint being mine once froze whilst over Belgium but with only a short distance back to BHX it didn't matter too much.

DXB was very crowded even in 2006, I imagine it's even worse now. Lots of people sleeping on the floor and up against the walls, after a little look around we found a quiet corner of the Irish bar and had a bite to eat. The new terminal 3(?) was still under construction then, I think it opened in 2008? Not the worst airport I've used although the gents were pretty disgusting.
 
Looks as though we just missed out on the upgraded ICE system, but even before it was still excellent. My only complaint being mine once froze whilst over Belgium but with only a short distance back to BHX it didn't matter too much.

DXB was very crowded even in 2006, I imagine it's even worse now. Lots of people sleeping on the floor and up against the walls, after a little look around we found a quiet corner of the Irish bar and had a bite to eat. The new terminal 3(?) was still under construction then, I think it opened in 2008? Not the worst airport I've used although the gents were pretty disgusting.

Although DXB is very modern its success in attracting so many passengers - with a tremendous number connecting to other EK flights - means that the airport is bursting at the seams for much of the time as it is a true 24-hour airport.

There is still a need for long bus rides to remote stands in too many cases - we suffered this again on the DXB-LGW leg and most of our previous flights on 777s have involved 15 minutes or more touring the airport looking for our aircraft or being taken to the terminal on inbounds.

It does seem with the double-deck A 380 that practicalities mean that you are likely to board direct by airbridge from the gate instead of having to endure one of those bus tours.

I said earlier that the Emirates lounges at LGW, MEL and BHX are excellent. They cater for both business and first-class passengers.

Not so at Dubai. In terminal 3 there is a business lounge and a separate first-class lounge.

We used the business lounge when returning to BHX as our onward boarding card was for business class on the two-class BHX route. It was not a pleasant experience - overcrowded with even a queue at the gents. The almost uniformly condemnatory passenger reports on this lounge that appear on Skytrax and the like are thoroughly merited if our admittedly single experience is anything to go by. The first-class lounge is large, uncrowded and relaxing although we've never had more than a snack there because of the time of time of day we've always transited it.

The other helpful facility that Emirates provide for their business and first-class passengers are complimentary chauffeured cars to and from the airports, though there is sometime a supplement to be paid for longer distances.

If you are thinking of trying a premium cabin in the future, ray, it's well worth enquiring about a first-class fare. If you're flexible with dates and UK airports (I know you are next to BHX) it's possible to ride 'up front' for very ittle more than the normal business fare. We've met a number of 'ordinary' people like ourselves on the flights who've also managed to get these deals.

I can give you the name of the travel specialists we use if you wish (PM me). It's a well-known long haul company but they don't pay to advertise on this forum so I don't see why they should get a free plug.
 
Emirates failed to impress me , have only used them once,LHR to Dubai then on to Male in the Maldives, was in economy class and had a very uncomfortable time on all 4 legs, with the A330 being particularly bad.. The 777s slightly less so. Hard seats, busy airport, average service, yes good ICE but it is hard to gloss over a relatively poor service with a few films... I vowed the, in 2006, never to use them again, and have stuck by that. Plus myself and my wife picked up a virus, which i am pretty sure was onboard, and spoiled 7 out of 14 nights in 5 star luxury in our Honeymoon Beach villa...
Qatar gotta be better, and Etihad get's great reviews from folks i know who go that way a lot..
 
Emirates failed to impress me , have only used them once,LHR to Dubai then on to Male in the Maldives, was in economy class and had a very uncomfortable time on all 4 legs, with the A330 being particularly bad.. The 777s slightly less so. Hard seats, busy airport, average service, yes good ICE but it is hard to gloss over a relatively poor service with a few films... I vowed the, in 2006, never to use them again, and have stuck by that. Plus myself and my wife picked up a virus, which i am pretty sure was onboard, and spoiled 7 out of 14 nights in 5 star luxury in our Honeymoon Beach villa...
Qatar gotta be better, and Etihad get's great reviews from folks i know who go that way a lot..

I've noted that EK reviews on such sites as Skytrax often contain comments about deteriorating service, in all classes.

My wife and I have used them for five return journeys between the UK and Australia in the past five years which involved 20 aircraft, either A 380s or B 777 ERs. For a medical reason my wife would find it impossible to sit in an ordinary seat for a journey of this length, so we have to bite the bullet and travel in the front in the suites if we want to see our daughter and her family which of course we do.

Even here the service can be variable depending on the individual crews at the time. The worst we've had I would describe as ordinary but we've also enjoyed exceptional service. Given the cost of the fare one would expect first rate service all the time but, sadly, that's not always the case these days in all sorts of industries.

We had an interesting flight back yesterday morning on the leg between Dubai and Gatwick. Our A 380 left DXB on a hot but gloomy morning not long before a tremendous sand storm developed that played havoc in Dubai itself and caused major problems at the airport.

Emirates has probably the best IFE of any airline including tail, flight deck and belly mounted cameras on its 380s that provide a fascinating addition to any passenger interested in such things. It also features a two-channel Airshow that provide a myriad of details about the route as it unfolds.

We used to fly over Iraq after leaving DXB but because of security issues the flights now overfly Iran instead - I'm not sure if this is really meant to be a comforting alteration for passengers. The route then usually passes over Turkey, Bulgaria/Romania, Hungary and eventually over Germany to the UK.

Yesterday, having enjoyed a magnificent view of Teheran (I hadn't realised how close it is to snow-capped mountains) we avoided Turkey to overfly Baku in Azerbaijan and the Caspian Sea before entering Russian airspace to fly over Volgograd. The trip continued above Russia to Belarus, after which we flew over northern Poland, northern Germany and the Netherlands.

I was chatting to one of the cabin staff when we were over Russia and asked her if she knew why we were taking this route given that it was going to take 30-45 minutes longer than normal. She didn't but immediately volunteered to ask the captain.

She returned ten minutes later to tell me that the captain was delighted that someone was following the route so closely (I told her that I did get out a bit). The reason was quite prosaic. He had explained that the headwinds on the normal route were so severe that it was worth travelling the extra distance as a saving in time would still be made.
 
Good to see you back TLY, I trust you had an enjoyable time down under?

Routing over Tehran does seem quite far east, last time I used Emirates we also flew over Iran but it was to the west of the country almost skirting the border with Iraq. We then headed over Turkey and across the Black Sea to Constanta, Romania, then across Hungary, Austria, Germany and Belgium. The winds have been very bad across Europe but it's interesting that such a detour could still save time.
 
Good to see you back TLY, I trust you had an enjoyable time down under?

Routing over Tehran does seem quite far east, last time I used Emirates we also flew over Iran but it was to the west of the country almost skirting the border with Iraq. We then headed over Turkey and across the Black Sea to Constanta, Romania, then across Hungary, Austria, Germany and Belgium. The winds have been very bad across Europe but it's interesting that such a detour could still save time.

Many thanks, Ray.

Yes, a thoroughly enjoyable time as usual with only a slight hiccup outside our control. Our daughter had booked seats for all of us to watch one of the Cricket World Cup quarter finals at the magnificent Melbourne Cricket Ground, or MCG or even "the G" as it's apparently known locally. Had they not been so incompetent and managed to get themselves knocked out at the group stage England were due to play their quarter final at the G.

In the event we watched India v Bangladesh, a bit of a one-sided game, but well worth the visit to experience the passion and noise of tens of thousands of Indian supporters in the huge stadium.

Yes, the flight home was somewhat unusual in the routing but was interesting.
 
I imagine it was a great experience, I've been in the SCG (Sydney Cricket Ground) but that is nothing when compared to the MCG.

Yes the less said about the England Cricket team the better.
 
An interesting article about Emirates UK operation.

Emirates 'supports almost 30,000 people in UK'

Emirates claims to have supported 29,700 jobs in the UK last year, contributing the equivalent of £2.1 billion to the UK economy.

In the last thirty years, Emirates has seen its operation grow from a single flight between London Gatwick to Dubai, to 112 outbound flights a week.

The introduction of a third daily Birmingham to Dubai service from August 2015 means Emirates will exceed 6,000 (6,068) annual flights from the UK to the Middle East for the first time, carrying approximately 2.2 million passengers.

Emirates carries 117,000 tonnes of cargo to and from the UK each year.

Emirates spends approximately £1.2 billion each year on British goods and services, including the leather for its business and first class seats

Full article: http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature. ... &region=RT
 
An interesting article from Tim Clark about the 'war of words' with the American carriers.

Do AA, UA and DL have a point about the rise of the Gulf carriers or should they just stop whining and invest in their aircraft and improve their products/service to compete?

Emirates president refocuses on war of words with US airlines

Tim Clark, the president of Emirates Airline, is refocusing on the war of words between some in the US aviation industry, including American, United and Delta airlines, and Arabian Gulf carriers over open Skies agreements.

It has been an increasingly bitter dispute, with the Americans claiming that Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways have received $44 billion in subsidies from their governments, and seeking US government action against them.

In a lengthy and candid interview with The National, Mr Clark spoke forcefully about the Open Skies row, where it leaves Emirates’ growth plans, and what he thinks of other aviation executives.

The full article is an interesting read: http://www.thenational.ae/business/avia ... lines#full
 
Did anyone else notice an Emirates A330 200 on FR24 approx 5.30pm today that appeared to land at Newquay? According to FR24 it was Dubai to Newquay direct! Any ideas anyone?
 
I believe they are ending their days at Newquay and being scrapped.

I seem to remember two more EK A330's arrived a couple of weeks ago.
 
I believe they are ending their days at Newquay and being scrapped.

I seem to remember two more EK A330's arrived a couple of weeks ago.

Yes - it was discussed in the NQY forum recently.

topic2212-10.html
 
My first ever long haul flight was on an EK A330.

I have fond memories of using them between BHX and DXB when heading to AUS. I can also remember doing DXB-SYD on an A340-500, a type that will all be gone soon, and Perth on the A340-300 of which Emirates now only have a couple left. :s_sad
 
Sir Tim Clark says Boeing need to improve the hot weather performance of the 787-10 or Emirates may opt for the A350.

“The engines are ‘spec’ed’ at 70-72 [thousand pounds thrust], but the conditions we’re getting [operating from Dubai means] it can’t take the payload,” says Clark.

“I don’t want an aircraft compromised on some of the medium-haul routes – ie 3,500nm – or that the engine is working so hard that its reliability gives me despatch problems. They’re talking about thrust bumps and I don’t do thrust bumps.”

Clark says that the 787-10 is “a brilliant aeroplane” within its performance envelope, but he is not hopeful that Boeing will be able to tackle his concerns. “I think there’s a reticence there from Boeing,” he says. “Once you start going for a higher thrust you need more changes, fan changes – the whole thing changes

Full article: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... om-413281/

There are also some strong words about the ongoing dispute with the US in the article below.

In response to American CEO Doug Parker’s comment earlier today that “this is a dispute between governments, not between us as airlines,” Clark fired back: “It’s totally and utterly smoke and mirrors. Believe nothing. These guys are out to take us down, and they have a fight on their hands. It’s not of our making. They’re dealing with the wrong people. This isn’t some minnow in Africa or Asia. That’s not going to happen here. We’re too big. We have a $37 billion balance sheet. We turn over nearly $30 billion a year. If you think we’re going to get pushed around by them, you’re not serious. I didn’t want this, and neither did [Etihad CEO] James Hogan. It was brought to us, and it has been constant. It has been threatening, it has been intimidatory, and frankly it’s a disgrace as far as I am concerned. It’s destabilizing the industry.”

Full article: http://www.skywriteraviation.aero/2015/ ... s-dispute/
 
Emirates are letting their actions do the talking in the U.S. right now. It has been leaked to the route website Anna.aero that they are going to launch flights to Philadelphia.
 

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