Airport Consultative Committee [Questions & Responses]

[alpha.alpha]

Why don't the Council just give the 2500 fine LBA pay it every year and have it done with put it to bed. Like everyone including the council states.. its not in the public interest.

 

[Aviador]

Why don't the Council just give the 2500 fine LBA pay it every year and have it done with put it to bed. Like everyone including the council states.. its not in the public interest.

Or better still, just create a new quota system based on the already approved, albeit now defunct new terminal night flying addendum. A new system that takes into account new aircraft types, and a system that encourages those newer aircraft types. Surely that would be the best way forward than the current impasse which is only going to make both parties look bad in the public eye.

 

[ls27]

My understanding of the law is that the Council cannot legally fine the Airport. Only Magistrates Courts can do that after there is a guilty verdict.

 

[Len Fish]

So LCC take LBA to court for the alleged breach, LBA simply plead guilty, are fined and pay the fine. No need for expensive lawyers on either side. I agree though that it makes a mockery of the situation, which needs a common sense settlement in the light of aviation technology today, not how it was yonks ago. Unfortunately common sense and LCC do not sit comfortably together.

 

[White Heather]

So LCC take LBA to court for the alleged breach, LBA simply plead guilty, are fined and pay the fine. No need for expensive lawyers on either side. I agree though that it makes a mockery of the situation, which needs a common sense settlement in the light of aviation technology today, not how it was yonks ago. Unfortunately common sense and LCC do not sit comfortably together.

And of course, the problem is that with regard to the exemption of QC0.25 aircraft, LBA do not consider themselves guilty.

 

[ls27]

No. They plea Not Guilty' and that might let he cat out of the bag!

 

[Finger66]

@White Heather I appreciate this thank you is very delayed due to my recent temporary forum retirement but once again an excellent summary from the ACC meeting so thank you for all you do in attending and reporting on this - I like the vast majority of others really look forward to reading your very detailed summaries. It is all very much appreciated

 

[Len Fish]

If you retire from the forum do you get a pension? Asking for a friend.

I would just add that, apart from the occasional interloper, this is one of the friendliest forums out there with useful information, opinions, friendly banter and is well moderated.

 

[rollo]

Ditto to you second point,...... regarding the first point you've as much chance as getting a winter heating allowance!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Relevant to WH's last ACC report

Business community calls on Government to resolve Doncaster airport airspace issue

Key figures of South Yorkshire’s business community have called on the Government for an urgent resolution to the issue of airspace at Doncaster Sheffield Airport.

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

 

[White Heather]

Relevant to WH's last ACC report

Business community calls on Government to resolve Doncaster airport airspace issue

Key figures of South Yorkshire’s business community have called on the Government for an urgent resolution to the issue of airspace at Doncaster Sheffield Airport.

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

All well and good but no way should DSA get back the disproportionate amount of airspace it had previously. The writers take a very simplistic view and pay no heed to the impact on surrounding airports nor the Government backed Airspace Review.

 

[GolfFox]

All well and good but no way should DSA get back the disproportionate amount of airspace it had previously. The writers take a very simplistic view and pay no heed to the impact on surrounding airports nor the Government backed Airspace Review

Or to the fact that there is no ATC unit in place to control it. The horse has to come before the cart!

 

[quik123]

Doncaster airspace was controlled from Liverpool(only VCR at Don) so could probably be re-established fairly quickly and certainly with or without the airport been actually operational.

 

[Aviador]

I understand from the latest round of terminal development and the masterplan that a similar option is being explored for LBA.

 

[oldendays]

I understand from the latest round of terminal development and the masterplan that a similar option is being explored for LBA.

Does this mean potential DSA airspace being controlled from a position at LBA Radar or have I misunderstood?

 

[pug]

Doncaster airspace was controlled from Liverpool(only VCR at Don) so could probably be re-established fairly quickly and certainly with or without the airport been actually operational.

In theory yes, but if there is no operational airport and. I commercial traffic the stakeholders (I.e other airspace users) would have a good case to challenge. Exception to this of course is if LBA was once again able to utilise the CTA for CDA as they’d more than likely support such a move. However certainly lower level there is no argument for re-activating the airspace until such a time that the airport is at least open for business.

All this nonsense about airspace appears to me to be a smokescreen at present. The CAA appear to have paused any further ACP work in good faith to allow the Council to get on with the job of finding someone to operate the airport, why they keep emphasising this I do not know, perhaps communication between themselves and the CAA could be better? But certainly in terms of what is documented there has been no update or movement on the ACP since releasing their findings following the request to call in over a year ago!

 

[Aviador]

Does this mean potential DSA airspace being controlled from a position at LBA Radar or have I misunderstood?

I've been trying to find the source of what I'd seen to confirm it, but what I understand is radar ops could in theory be carried out by a third party in the same way that it was at DSA before it closed. This doesn't mean it will happen, nor does it mean this was what was meant, but that was my interpretation.

 

[quik123]

I've been trying to find the source of what I'd seen to confirm it, but what I understand is radar ops could in theory be carried out by a third party in the same way that it was at DSA before it closed. This doesn't mean it will happen, nor does it mean this was what was meant, but that was my interpretation.

Not really a 3rd party at DSA. Peel owned both Don and Liverpool when the service was set up so it was easy for them to share the resources and not employ any radar controllers at Don. In theory it would be possible for Don, LBA or others to be controlled from one place but in practice it would be nigh on impossible to come to commercially agreeable terms. Example, LBA might want to control Don airspace and it would make a case for them to expand their radar room and employ more controllers. But would the new operators of Don want to pay for this or pay Liverpool to continue as before, or indeed set up their own radar service. When LBA was bought by AMP it was rumoured at the time that Newcastle and LBA could share radar control services (both owned or part owned by AMP) but of course it never happened.

 

[Aviador]

@White Heather Question for the airport if it hasn't already been asked regarding the ongoing belief that Jet2 A321 limitations may prohibit the use of their new aircraft at LBA. Is it possible to put this question to the airport to have this answered once and for all?

 

[oldendays]

The radar room at LBA could probably squeeze in one more position to service another airfield's approach radar function but the room itself really couldn't be enlarged. A few years ago, Thinking Space pulled off a spectacular TARDIS job on the room but a facility with more floor space would have to be elsewhere on the airfield site. Hopefully this is all academic anyway and I'd be amazed if LBA would even consider providing ATC services to a competing airport.

Anyways, what became of the actual radar head at Doncaster? Is it still there or did Peel redeploy it?