Flybe

[superking]

They operated alog side easy jet for quite some time and in a way they were good for one another. If my memory is thinking correct BRS fell out with flybe a few years be fore hand.

 

[Jerry]

A few months ago I read that not all the money the WG had made available to its airport company for route development had been drawn as a loan, with several million pounds still available. Does the airport company risk spending more money on getting another airline or airlines to fill Flybe's gaps, or can it find an airline that will operate without a 'subsidy'?

I think the problem for the airport with investing money into attracting an airline is that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't but personally if they are going to invest in another airline it can only be Ryanair in my opinion.

 

[superking]

You are correct on the FR bit. But you wont have any UK internal flights from them.

 

[Jerry]

You are correct on the FR bit. But you wont have any UK internal flights from them.

I think it would depend on what deal was done but the likelihood is that it would only be a 1 daily Edinburgh most likely.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

I just get the feeling that the Flybe top brass aren't bothered with CWL and just want to focus on Heathrow. .

I have to disagree with this. LHR flights are only a small portion of the flybe network. VS top brass will of course be wanting feed from flybe, but they only have a limited amount of slots and a limited size aircraft. Little Red failed to bring in the numbers, so the aircraft size may be right but they have to get the slots and destinations right. VS is a relatively small airline to feed and even smaller at MAN. Flybe have 70+ aircraft and only 15 flights a day into LHR, which probably equates to utilisation of about 4 aircraft.
3x ABZ 6x EDI 1x GCI 1x IOM 4x NQY
VS only has I think 6 aircraft based in MAN so again the feed from flybe isn't going to be that extensive.

If an Airline "isn't bothered" by something, it's because it doesn't make money. Stobart will have a keen interest in Flybe's regional flying. After all, they have a 33% share split.

Given the LF's that Flybe pulls in on the core routes, there's either something seriously wrong with their revenue management or something they are missing. If I was VS i'd be very concerned about the social media posts regarding hand luggage at the moment. Granted it's just enforcing a rule that's always been there, but there's daily/hourly complaints about inconsistencies which can only be severely hurting their reputation.

When you compare that EZY can support up to 5x daily flights to EDI from BRS on aircraft up to double the size of flybe, but BE have maintained 2-3 departures from CWL, it shouldn't take much to win back some more custom from BRS as without a doubt there would be a good portion of those customers originating from South Wales.
I can only assume that they are on a cash building mission with the hand luggage and ruining their reputation with this and schedule changes/route cuts before a big VS rebranding and marketing campaign comes out.
Realistically Flybe should be able to make money on EDI and BHD at least, along with DUB and CDG if the schedule can be worked.

Current comparison between EZY and BE, flying to EDI Monday 20th May, returning Friday 24th
BE - 3 flight options (Outbound/Return) - Cheapest fare
Base fare - £52.68 / 37.62 or 54.62 (Early flight) = £90.30
With luggage (23kg) & seats - £83.68 / 68.62 or £85.62 (Early flight) = £152.30
All in - £241.68 / 234.62 = £476.30

EZY - 5 flight options (Outbound/Return)
£25.83 up to £50.48 / £33.31 up to £71.69 = £59.14
With seats- +£5.49 each way up to £19.99 (Extra legroom) & With bag (23kg) + £15.49 per flight = £101.11
Flexi - £108.99 / £135.99 - £244.98

Obviously it will never be a true comparison as EZY have a lot more seats to fill so have better cost per seat to deal with. It could also be that one flight is currently busier than the other with a destination like EDI attracting later bookings. Why anyone would pay nearly £500 for an "All in" ticket is beyond me. The point being that Flybe's prices aren't rock bottom

 

[Jerry]

Even if Cardiff is profitable it may just be Stobart or no Stobart that Flybe/Connect don't see CWL as an integral part of their business and part of where they want to take the airline in the future.
Whatever the damage is hopefully the airport will be able to recover it in time.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Flybe axed their CWL flights, except BHD, in early 2013 claiming they were unprofitable. They were all operated by Q400s at that time. CityJet took over the lost routes from Flybe. Flybe returned with a much bigger programme in 2015 after the agreement with the WG-owned CWL. Now they seem to be downsizing again. Whether it really is a bargaining ploy to try to extract more cash from the WG through its airport company we don't know, and might not ever know, although how things pan out might enable educated guesses to be made.

Flybe did close its newly acquired BAConnect's 5-aircraft BRS base in 2007, axing nearly all the routes at the same time. BRS stated that they knew that the BACon base was profitable and were surprised at the decision (in evidence to a Competition Commission enquiry into other matters). Many assumed it dated back to another decision a couple of years earlier when easyJet came on to some of Flybe's BRS French routes causing Flybe to pull its own services. I can't think that pettiness would interfere with good business practice.

In any case do we know of any reason why Flybe would have fallen out with CWL and if they had would it really have an influence on business if it was successful for both parties? It seems to me that the new Flybe owners are trying to get better terms from CWL or that there really are better opportunities for them elsewhere. What else could be a reason for CWL not appearing in the winter timetable at the same time as the other airports? This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one.

 

[Jerry]

I would have thought that all the fees would have to be renegotiated and no doubt Flybe will want any discounts to remain but airport may well be only willing to give them to a based airline so may be trying to get them to keep it in place.
It could also be that as Project Blackbird was the brainchild of the former CEO the current one just wants to get rid of it and Cardiff is a casualty of that as at moment the Q400 bases seem unaffected.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

So has anybody else seen Flybe’s latest social media add. The reunited kingdom.

Somebody in marketing really doesn’t know what is going on across their network.

 

[Jerry]

Posted on the other forum that Inghams have published their brochure for 2020 and it has Flybe down as operating flights from Cardiff to Milan on Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun and Verona on Wed/Sat.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Posted on the other forum that Inghams have published their brochure for 2020 and it has Flybe down as operating flights from Cardiff to Milan on Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun and Verona on Wed/Sat.

I've found that holiday brochures such as this are printed well in advance and tend to replicate the previous year's carrier and timings, whether or not that is the case when the new season actually begins to operate, especially with Lakes & Mountains holidays from my experience.

 

[Jerry]

Yeah I had a feeling it might be something like that. I'd be shocked if Flybe are operating those routes next year. Hopefully though another airline will be.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Yeah I had a feeling it might be something like that. I'd be shocked if Flybe are operating those routes next year. Hopefully though another airline will be.

I would be very surprised if Inghams had foreknowledge of Flybe's summer 2020 plans when it seems that CWL itself is still negotiating with Flybe for the coming winter.

if there is no Flybe service to Milan or Verona in summer 2020 Inghams might consider chartering an aircraft for their holidays from CWL. They do so from Bristol with a summer Innsbruck route for example. Last summer it was Flybe (I'm not sure who it will be this summer), the year before CityJet, and Austrian have also been used in recent summers too. Inghams also used to charter their own aircraft (flybmi) for their Verona holidays from BRS. They later began taking seats on TUI's fights to VRN.

So there is always hope that Inghams would do something similar at CWL if Flybe was no longer operating the routes in question.

 

[Jerry]

So there is always hope that Inghams would do something similar at CWL if Flybe was no longer operating the routes in question.

Hopefully they will and TUI will use that flight as well. It would be very ironic if the chartered airline was Flybe!

 

[Jerry]

Flybe have released a new press release but nothing has changed.
"Flybe and Cardiff Airport are finalising the plans for Winter 2019 flights to and from the airport and the programme is expected to be confirmed and on sale soon". When that soon will be is anyones guess!
https://www.flybe.com/media/news/1905/0507

 

[Jerry]

Has anyone heard anything about whether Flybe will be continuing after October or not? Seems to be taking a while to finalise things.

 

[Barry Man]

Would like to but can’t !

 

[superking]

Has anyone heard anything about whether Flybe will be continuing after October or not? Seems to be taking a while to finalise things.

Getting a bit late in the day now. Pax that would look at departures from CWL will or have booked flights from other airports.This late in the day would be like Flybe starting new routes again,also it gives pax no confidence to fly with Flybe. I would like to think they will release some thing but I wouldn't hold my nreath on that one.

 

[Jerry]

Getting a bit late in the day now. Pax that would look at departures from CWL will or have booked flights from other airports.This late in the day would be like Flybe starting new routes again,also it gives pax no confidence to fly with Flybe. I would like to think they will release some thing but I wouldn't hold my nreath on that one.

I think there still plenty of time to release it but they may lose many of the early bird customers. I think for me though the longer they wait creates more uncertainty about whether they will be operating from CWL at all.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think there still plenty of time to release it but they may lose many of the early bird customers. I think for me though the longer they wait creates more uncertainty about whether they will be operating from CWL at all.

I know we've speculated on the situation before but it is intriguing that, as far as I know, CWL is the only Flybe airport awaiting the publication of next winter's programme.

It could be that the airport is pushing for a bigger presence than Flybe contemplated which, if that is the case, would point to the delay revolving around the negotiation of a deal that suits both parties.

I can't see what else would be holding things up. If I'm barking up the wrong tree why doesn't Flybe simply announce its winter programme? If it is less than CWL wants, the airport would have time to look for another carrier or carriers for any routes that are left uncovered.