Random Stuff!!

[superking]

Wales going into tier 4 lockdown at mid night tonight. that just about shuts every thing down.London and parts of the south east in tier 4 as well. The bad thing with this is any one in tier 4 cant mix with any house hold out side of any one else.Getting much worse jerry. There seems to be no answer to it Jerry.

 

[Jerry]

Wales going into tier 4 lockdown at mid night tonight. that just about shuts every thing down.London and parts of the south east in tier 4 as well. The bad thing with this is any one in tier 4 cant mix with any house hold out side of any one else.Getting much worse jerry. There seems to be no answer to it Jerry.

Yes thats Xmas half cancelled for my parents especially as they were planning on spending it with my sister in Leeds.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

I'd be surprised but do hope that they reject it. I expect that they won't but I think each ms can choose to reject it or give the rise to charity.

I’d be surprised if they can reject it being put on their pay packet but hopefully they’ll donate it to charity

welsh media needs to hold WG better to account, drakeford and co get an easy ride

 

[Jerry]

I’d be surprised if they can reject it being put on their pay packet but hopefully they’ll donate it to charity

welsh media needs to hold WG better to account, drakeford and co get an easy ride

The main media in Wales isn't Welsh it's essentially English media.
Though there is Welsh based media like nation Cymru coming through.
There has been calls to devolve media and broadcasting to Wales but at the moment there's not much chance of getting anything devolved with the UK government that's in place.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The main media in Wales isn't Welsh it's essentially English media.
Though there is Welsh based media like nation Cymru coming through.
There has been calls to devolve media and broadcasting to Wales but at the moment there's not much chance of getting anything devolved with the UK government that's in place.

I’m intrigued at the idea that the media could be devolved to Wales. Given that the print media and commercial broadcasting are in the hands of the private sector they will go where there is a viable market won’t they? How could they be devolved?

The print media regulates itself with independent oversight, with the broadcast media coming under the auspices of Ofcom that issues licences and regulates the industry. Ofcom is independent although its powers stem from the Westminster Parliament. I suppose there is nothing in principle to stop a change in the law to create a Welsh Ofcom (or whatever it might be called).

The BBC is probably the media organisation capable of a form of ‘devolution’. There is already a BBC Cymru Wales, a BBC Scotland and a BBC Northern Ireland, with England split into BBC regions. It's a statutory corporation established by royal charter under the umbrella of the Westminster secretary of state for media etc.

The BBC has had a major presence in Wales almost since its inception. BBC controllers and editors are typically independent-minded people who are unlikely to bow to 'English' government pressure any more than senior BBC personnel around England. If a Welsh BBC was hived off they would likely have some link to the Welsh Government, and if some people believe that the BBC is in some sort of thrall to Westminster wouldn’t some people in Wales believe the same about the Welsh Government if it was linked to a Welsh BBC cut off from the BBC in England?

I'm not trying to pick an argument for the sake of it. I'm genuinely interested in the concept of a devolved media to Wales and how it would work.

 

[Jerry]

I'm not trying to pick an argument for the sake of it. I'm genuinely interested in the concept of a devolved media to Wales and how it would work.

I believe it's control over the regulation of the media, broadcasting and online content. There was a consultation and these point's were considered.

• The BBC, including its governance and funding.
• S4C, including its governance and funding.
• Other public service broadcasters (ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5).
• Regulatory functions currently carried out by Ofcom.
• Commercial and community radio services.
• How any changes proposed align with the shift to digital media consumption.
• How any changes proposed would impact on the media production sector

 

[aviatorconcorde]

The main media in Wales isn't Welsh it's essentially English media.
Though there is Welsh based media like nation Cymru coming through.
There has been calls to devolve media and broadcasting to Wales but at the moment there's not much chance of getting anything devolved with the UK government that's in place.

Excuse my arrogance but what part of the media can be devolved to Wales? Apart from a few laws and things like the licence fee, i don’t think there would be much?

still, outlets like wales online are quite left leaning so prone to giving WG an easy ride.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I believe it's control over the regulation of the media, broadcasting and online content. There was a consultation and these point's were considered.

• The BBC, including its governance and funding.
• S4C, including its governance and funding.
• Other public service broadcasters (ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5).
• Regulatory functions currently carried out by Ofcom.
• Commercial and community radio services.
• How any changes proposed align with the shift to digital media consumption.
• How any changes proposed would impact on the media production sector

What you seem to be saying, certainly as far as the broadcast media are concerned, is that regulation of them should be vested in Wales, and not necessarily that the companies themselves should be 'Welsh'. If I have got this correct the major companies would still be seen as 'English' with perhaps a Welsh subsidiary, or alternatively there might be new Welsh companies coming on the scene to take over or compete depending on the attitude of the Welsh regulator. That still presumes that such ventures would be commercially viable.

Would it be expected that the public purse would fund a Welsh BBC, or whatever it might be called? If so that would inevitably give rise to the idea amongst many people that the Welsh BBC was in the pocket of the Welsh Government that would undoubtedly want some influence if public money was involved, in the same way that some people see Westminster meddling because the BBC is part of the remit of the secretary of state for media etc.

Or would it be a case of 'at least it's our government doing the meddling and not an English one in London'?

It's an interesting concept, one that I shall watch with interest as a disinterested observer. As I'm not Welsh, neither do I live in Wales, I don't feel I have the right to express an opinion on the matter.

Excuse my arrogance but what part of the media can be devolved to Wales? Apart from a few laws and things like the licence fee, i don’t think there would be much?

still, outlets like wales online are quite left leaning so prone to giving WG an easy ride.

Wales Online is owned by Reach Plc, formerly Trinity Mirror, the UK's largest newspaper group. Reach owns well over 200 regional newspaper titles in the UK. I use the term newspaper loosely because in my experience their digital output is often more akin to a children's comic. Reach also owns Media Wales and such print publications as the Western Mail, South Wales Echo and South Wales Evening Post.

Across the river Reach owns the Bristol Post, formerly Bristol Evening Post, with its digital version now called Bristol Live. Bristol Live usually takes a liberal (small l) stance on many things. Reach's national newspaper brands include the Sunday Mirror, Daily Mirror, Sunday Express, Daily Express, Daily Star On Sunday, Daily Star and The People.

 

[Jerry]

Excuse my arrogance but what part of the media can be devolved to Wales? Apart from a few laws and things like the licence fee, i don’t think there would be much?

Or would it be a case of 'at least it's our government doing the meddling and not an English one in London'?

From what I've been able to read on the subject I think that there would be the hope that devolution would mean that the media would concentrate more on Welsh news especially in broadcasting. At the moment for instance the BBC would have BBC UK news programme then BBC Wales. I'd imagine that the hope for instance would be that there would be just the Welsh part that covers international news, relevant UK news (because Wales does get a lot of English news it doesn't really need) and of course Welsh news.

 

[superking]

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL TO CWL FOLLOWERS.

 

[Jerry]

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL TO CWL FOLLOWERS.

Merry Christmas to yourself and everyone on forum4airports!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Drakeford: Wales has less influence on Johnson

Relations between the four UK nations were closer under Theresa May, Wales' first minister says.

www.bbc.co.uk

The article contains this quote from the FM. He doesn't spell out in detail what he has in mind.

"I don't want to see Scotland disappearing from the United Kingdom. If Scotland decides to take its own path - it's different in Northern Ireland - we'll have to rethink about our relationship with England - and will need to consider the arrangements and the options."

 

[Jerry]

Drakeford: Wales has less influence on Johnson

Relations between the four UK nations were closer under Theresa May, Wales' first minister says.

www.bbc.co.uk

The article contains this quote from the FM. He doesn't spell out in detail what he has in mind.

"I don't want to see Scotland disappearing from the United Kingdom. If Scotland decides to take its own path - it's different in Northern Ireland - we'll have to rethink about our relationship with England - and will need to consider the arrangements and the options."

Only realistic option would be independence. I don't see a union between England and Wales being viable.
Welsh Labour do want a federal UK but even now the likelihood of that ever happening is slim and would be zero after Scottish independence. I do think that Welsh Labour are going to have to decide what's more important to them, Wales or the union.

 

[Jerry]

Woman confronted by bears during three-year walk home to Wales

Cancer survivor Ursula Martin has trekked more than 4,000 miles and won't be back to her home in Wales until later this year

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[Jerry]

Michael Sheen did an interview on YouTube with a prominent Labour supporter Owen Jones a few days ago and in part of that interview he mentioned the relationship between Wales and England specifically in relation to the reaction when Welsh independence is mentioned, too poor and too small is often used, which he likened to how an abusive partner behaves. Also he questioned the validity of the title of the Prince of Wales still being in use and brought up whether Prince Charles should actually be the last holder of the title, he also gave up his OBE to air those views. The interview has made waves especially the Prince of Wales comment with the Secretary of State for Wales responding in an article about it.
It's definitely helped the profile of the welsh independence cause with such a high profile actor talking about it even though he's not actually declared support for it and talking about the Prince of Wales title and it's relevance to modern Wales is needed in my own opinion.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1344723741465522178

Michael Sheen returned OBE to air views on royal family

The Welsh actor has revealed he gave back his OBE so he could call for the scrapping of the title Prince of Wales

www.theguardian.com

And below is the lecture he did back in 2017.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I take the point about the interest shown by Mr Sheen putting the subject into the spotlight again, or even further into the spotlight might be more accurate, but that's really all it has done. He might be a prominent actor but his views on Welsh independence are of no more relevance than those of anyone else in Wales.

I found his abusive partner analogy slightly puzzling. He obviously means the partners are England and Wales but that would mean the argument about Wales being too small and too poor to become independent coming from the 'dominant' partner - England. Actually, much of this opinion seems to emanate from within Wales itself from people there who don't want to leave the Union which is tantamount to the wife in an abusive relationship herself saying she's too weak to leave her partner.

I have no problem with the position he takes with the Prince of Wales title. If the majority of people in Wales believe that the title has outlived any relevance it ever had - some would no doubt argue that it was never relevant - then why should not their views prevail? I remember the controversy about the naming of the Second Severn Crossing. There are now moves afoot to name the original Severn Crossing (Severn Bridge) 'Queen Elizabeth II Severn Bridge' to mark the 70th anniversary of her reign in 2022. This crossing is actually entirely in England - the adjoining Wye Bridge links Wales with England - which I presume is why the proponent from South Gloucestershire unitary authority might believe that such a move ought not to attract the opprobrium in Wales that attached to the naming of the Second Severn Crossing.

Incidentally I began to listen to Michael Sheen's Raymond Williams Memorial Lecture. Many in regional England will empathise with his experience as an 18 year-old drama student in London being unable to make himself understood because of his (at that time) strong Welsh accent. I shall try to listen to more of the lecture because Michael Sheen, as would be expected of an accomplished actor, puts across important matters in an entertaining way if the first ten minutes or so is anything to go by.

 

[Jerry]

I found his abusive partner analogy slightly puzzling. He obviously means the partners are England and Wales but that would mean the argument about Wales being too small and too poor to become independent coming from the 'dominant' partner - England. Actually, much of this opinion seems to emanate from within Wales itself from people there who don't want to leave the Union which is tantamount to the wife in an abusive relationship herself saying she's too weak to leave her partner.

Which can also be part of an abusive relationship in that the one partners self worth and how they see themselves is quite low.

There are now moves afoot to name the original Severn Crossing (Severn Bridge) 'Queen Elizabeth II Severn Bridge' to mark the 70th anniversary of her reign in 2022. This crossing is actually entirely in England - the adjoining Wye Bridge links Wales with England - which I presume is why the proponent from South Gloucestershire unitary authority might believe that such a move ought not to attract the opprobrium in Wales that attached to the naming of the Second Severn Crossing.

Despite the fact that basically both bridges are essentially in England i think they are seen by many in southern Wales as being Welsh and have been known as the Severn bridges for so long most people will just be the Severn bridges rather than what they are named. I believe that the proposal is to rename the Severn bridge the Queen Elizabeth 2 bridge but there is already a bridge over the Thames named the Queen Elizabeth 2 bridge.

If the majority of people in Wales believe that the title has outlived any relevance it ever had - some would no doubt argue that it was never relevant - then why should not their views prevail?

The problem is though no one will really ask the welsh people whether they want the title to continue or not. The title itself for modern Wales has no real relevance. Wales isn't a Principality anymore, there's no constitutional duties performed by the Prince of Wales. Wales is now separate politically from England now. I guess it's part of a bigger debate as a whole of Wales position in the monarchy considering it's not represented on the royal coat of arms or that the monarch didn't assume the crown of Wales like they have with England and Scotland.

The Raymond Williams lecture is a very good watch.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Which can also be part of an abusive relationship in that the one partners self worth and how they see themselves is quite low.

That's a fair point which is taken.

Despite the fact that basically both bridges are essentially in England i think they are seen by many in southern Wales as being Welsh and have been known as the Severn bridges for so long most people will just be the Severn bridges rather than what they are named.

Interesting that the 'old bridge' is thought of as being 'Welsh' when it's actually entirely within England. That said, I bet if you asked most people in the Bristol area they would say that one end is in England and the other in Wales.

It's certainly true that many people continue to refer to structures by their original name. I always think of and speak of the 'the old Severn Bridge' and 'the new Severn Bridge'. If I said the 'Prince of Wales Bridge' half the people I know would say, "Where's that?" or if a true Bristolian, "Where's that to?"

Digressing but that's why I'm never a fan of naming airports after people.

The problem is though no one will really ask the welsh people whether they want the title to continue or not. The title itself for modern Wales has no real relevance. Wales isn't a Principality anymore, there's no constitutional duties performed by the Prince of Wales. Wales is now separate politically from England now. I guess it's part of a bigger debate as a whole of Wales position in the monarchy considering it's not represented on the royal coat of arms or that the monarch didn't assume the crown of Wales like they have with England and Scotland.

The Prince of Wales is also the Duke of Cornwall of course. I wonder what Mebyon Kernow thinks of that.

I read an interesting piece from an Englishman living in Wales who actively supports the movement for Welsh independence and believes that the many English people living in Wales should be encouraged to be at least supportive of the concept. Some might ask what's it got to do with an English person but if they are strongly in favour, and especially if they live in Wales, it surely can't do the campaign any harm.

I've said in this forum in the past that I consider myself English having been born in England and had my home in England all my life despite having some Welsh and Irish antecedents a couple of generations ago, and I believe that if a majority of people in Wales want independence why should anyone be allowed to prevent it? From what I read that point has not been reached yet but there seems no doubt that a momentum is building, albeit probably some way behind Scotland's at present.

I wonder if those people who consider themselves Welsh, whether living in the country or elsewhere, who are opposed to Welsh independence do so in the belief that Wales would be worse off as an independent country (and they would support the movement if they thought the reverse was the case) or whether they are fundamentally opposed to the idea of leaving the Union.

 

[Jerry]

Interesting that the 'old bridge' is thought of as being 'Welsh' when it's actually entirely within England.

They are considered the gateway to Wales and are more connected i'd say in people's minds with Wales rather than England hence why renaming the new bridge was a bit controversial in Wales. With my job i use both bridges quite a lot and to me they'll always be the Severn bridges.

I read an interesting piece from an Englishman living in Wales who actively supports the movement for Welsh independence and believes that the many English people living in Wales should be encouraged to be at least supportive of the concept. Some might ask what's it got to do with an English person but if they are strongly in favour, and especially if they live in Wales, it surely can't do the campaign any harm.

I have noticed lately that many English living in Wales are coming around to the idea of Welsh independence and the driving force is Westminster people have just had enough of it. I do think that if there was a Westminster government who was more sensitive to the needs of Wales and Scotland (joining EFTA would've been a good compromise to the needs and wants of both) and be willing to compromise more especially during the Brexit process then i don't think the movement would be on the upward curve it is and there wouldn't be Labour MS coming out as independence curious due to the IMB bill in the Senedd chamber.
From what i've read Wales is polling ahead of where Scotland was before the 2014 referendum but Wales problem is translating that into the Senedd.

I wonder if those people who consider themselves Welsh, whether living in the country or elsewhere, who are opposed to Welsh independence do so in the belief that Wales would be worse off as an independent country (and they would support the movement if they thought the reverse was the case) or whether they are fundamentally opposed to the idea of leaving the Union.

For some they do believe a lot of the 'propaganda' that Wales is too small, too poor etc which is put out there by many politicians because it's what's been told to them all their lives (Ireland is used a lot as an example to counteract those arguments). I used to be one but when started learning history and researching other small countries knew it wasn't true.
For many others even Welsh people they don't see Wales as a country but more a region of the UK because they see the UK as the country, despite the UK not being a country but actually a political union. Many people won't be won around to the idea of independence but if we can continue to educate others i do feel that probably sooner rather than later the desire for independence will be in the majority.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Thank you for #1,002. Some interesting and educative points made.

To take up on or two, many people in England especially in peripheral areas don't regard the Westminster government always sensitive to their needs either, and not just the current government. England is stuck with Westminster unless the other home nations do become independent and England can then look at Westminster as a true English government as there will be nowhere else for Westminster to govern. At the moment England is stuck with Westminster by default.

As for Brexit, in the referendum there was a majority in Wales to leave, with the percentage leave vote almost the same as England's, albeit England's population being far larger obviously contributed many more leave votes. Does that make it more difficult for politicians and others in Wales to complain too loudly about any type of Brexit deal? Incidentally, I've read that in some quarters the resident English people in Wales are blamed for Wales's leave decision. I think this is based on research carried out by an Oxford academic.

The UK is certainly a sovereign state as recognised by international law whereas the constituent countries are not. The UK joined the EU (EEC as it was then) and the UK left the EU; the UK enters into relations with other sovereign states; the UK is responsible for Defence and Foreign Policy; the UK sends ambassadors and has embassies abroad; the UK issues passports; and so on. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland do none of these things as individual countries.

People might regard themselves as Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or English as the case may be but, until any or all of those countries leave the Union and become sovereign states, I'm not sure that such nationality is recognised internationally, with residents of these islands simply deemed 'British'.