Random Stuff!!

[geoff]

Scotland and Northern Ireland both have public holidays for their Patron Saints.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to have bank holidays on their Saints days but not Wales, or England. In fact, Scotland seems to have more bank holidays each year than Wales or England. If Wales was given an extra bank holiday leaving England the only country without there would be a clamour for that to be rectified with a huge impact on the UK economy. That said, it's manifestly wrong that all UK countries are not treated equally.

 

[Jerry]

Scotland and Northern Ireland seem to have bank holidays on their Saints days but not Wales, or England. In fact, Scotland seems to have more bank holidays each year than Wales or England. If Wales was given an extra bank holiday leaving England the only country without there would be a clamour for that to be rectified with a huge impact on the UK economy. That said, it's manifestly wrong that all UK countries are not treated equally.

It doesn't have to be an extra one, could just get rid of the May day bank holiday and have a St David's day one instead for Wales.
I also wonder if for England St George's day doesn't mean as much culturally for England compared to the Celtic countries and thier saints days?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It doesn't have to be an extra one, could just get rid of the May day bank holiday and have a St David's day one instead for Wales.
I also wonder if for England St George's day doesn't mean as much culturally for England compared to the Celtic countries and thier saints days?

Scotland appears to have nine national bank/public holidays in normal years against eight in Wales and England.

In Scotland there are two at New Year (1 and 2 January), Good Friday but not Easter Monday. The remainder seem to be the same as in Wales and England with the addition of St Andrew's Day on 30 November.

You might well be right about the importance of St George's Day in England - there is no doubt a significant proportion of the population that could not name the date on which St George's Day falls, including me. I know it's towards the end of April and is supposedly the same as Shakespeare's birthday but I can't remember that either. I've just looked it up, it's the 23rd.

In Scotland some areas also appear to have the power to grant local public holidays on top of the national ones.

This debate has highlighted yet another instance of the UK's constituent countries being treated unequally.

 

[KARFA]

The powers devolved are unequal precisely because the desire expressed for devolution through multiple referenda has been unequal. It wouldn’t be appropriate to just arbitrarily devolve exactly the same powers to NI, Scotland, and Wales.

The idea that not having a public holiday is somehow a gross injustice to the Welsh is very much a minority view - as can be seen by the paltry number of people to sign the petition.

 

[Jerry]

The powers devolved are unequal precisely because the desire expressed for devolution through multiple referenda has been unequal. It wouldn’t be appropriate to just arbitrarily devolve exactly the same powers to NI, Scotland, and Wales.

The idea that not having a public holiday is somehow a gross injustice to the Welsh is very much a minority view - as can be seen by the paltry number of people to sign the petition.

Well I wouldn't personally say that 12,000 people is a paltry number but also ALL 4 major political parties in Wales support St David's day being a bank holiday. It's one of the few things that they actually have a consensus on. As for more powers Wales in particular had a referendum in 2011 for more powers, consistently votes for parties that want more powers and polling says that people are in favour of more self government for Wales so what more of an indication that Wales in particular wants a more equal devolution settlement compared to our Celtic cousins.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The powers devolved are unequal precisely because the desire expressed for devolution through multiple referenda has been unequal. It wouldn’t be appropriate to just arbitrarily devolve exactly the same powers to NI, Scotland, and Wales.

The idea that not having a public holiday is somehow a gross injustice to the Welsh is very much a minority view - as can be seen by the paltry number of people to sign the petition.

Then Cameron comes along and promises Scotland more powers if the electorate votes 'No' in the forthcoming independence referendum. Hardly a reflection of historical referenda desire; much more a bribe in a desperate attempt to preserve the Union.

Incidentally, I see no reason in principle why the devolved governments should not be invested with identical powers.

 

[KARFA]

Well I wouldn't personally say that 12,000 people is a paltry number but also ALL 4 major political parties in Wales support St David's day being a bank holiday. It's one of the few things that they actually have a consensus on. As for more powers Wales in particular had a referendum in 2011 for more powers, consistently votes for parties that want more powers and polling says that people are in favour of more self government for Wales so what more of an indication that Wales in particular wants a more equal devolution settlement compared to our Celtic cousins.

Come on. Local parties want to win votes and do you know any voter who isn’t in favour of more days off work? What next, free candy for all? It’s such a classical populist ploy.

I doubt many are really bothered about St David, but will be very happy with another bank holiday.

 

[Jerry]

Local parties want to win votes and do you know any voter who isn’t in favour of more days off work?

It's a rare political consensus in Wales and like i said in an earlier post it doesn't have to be an extra day it could just replace something like the May day bank holiday.

 

[Jerry]

Then Cameron comes along and promises Scotland more powers if the electorate votes 'No' in the forthcoming independence referendum. Hardly a reflection of historical referenda desire; much more a bribe in a desperate attempt to preserve the Union.

Incidentally, I see no reason in principle why the devolved governments should not be invested with identical powers.

Was it Camerons government that promised devo max which has never been implemented?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Was it Camerons government that promised devo max which has never been implemented?

I'm not aware that Cameron promised devo max explicitly. He certainly promised more powers for Scotland if the 2014 independence referendum resulted in a 'No' vote. Some commentators took that to mean a form of devo max.

The 2016 Scotland Act devolved more powers.

 

[fly4gigs]

And sure Northern Ireland has another day for the unionists, lol.

 

[Jerry]

And sure Northern Ireland has another day for the unionists, lol.

Looking at latest polling and they may well get a Sinn Fein FM in May.

 

[Jerry]

The article makes a good point, an investiture could become too political for the Royal Family to actually go ahead with.

Plans to slim down the Prince of Wales role show that another divisive investiture is far from inevitable

Ifan Morgan Jones As with almost all ‘ancient traditions,’ the investiture of the Prince of Wales is remarkably recent. In fact, it’s only ever happened twice in the modern era, once in 1911 for the future King Edward VIII and once in 1969 for Prince Charles. The original investiture in 1911 at...

nation.cymru

 

[KARFA]

as someone who wants independence, would you want the royal family to continue to be head of state or would you want an elected non-executive president?

 

[Jerry]

as someone who wants independence, would you want the royal family to continue to be head of state or would you want an elected non-executive president?

For what would be the most likely the monarch's successor to continue the role as head of state. Then after 20 to 30 years maybe then Wales could if it wants to look towards a non executive President if it wants one. To me the questions of independence and monarchy are different.

 

[KARFA]

For what would be the most likely the monarch's successor to continue the role as head of state. Then after 20 to 30 years maybe then Wales could if it wants to look towards a non executive President if it wants one. To me the questions of independence and monarchy are different.

not really, if you want independence you need a plan for all of this stuff which would form part of the agreement splitting Wales from the UK. you can kick some of these things down the road like head of state, currency, central bank etc and still use those of the UK - although it's a funny kind of indepdence if you spend most of the time keeping the institutions of the UK.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

not really, if you want independence you need a plan for all of this stuff which would form part of the agreement splitting Wales from the UK. you can kick some of these things down the road like head of state, currency, central bank etc and still use those of the UK - although it's a funny kind of indepdence if you spend most of the time keeping the institutions of the UK.

If Wales gained independence so almost certainly would have Scotland, so it might be a question of England's institutions rather than the UK's which might no longer exist other than in perhaps a small Union with Northern Ireland.

 

[Jerry]

not really, if you want independence you need a plan for all of this stuff which would form part of the agreement splitting Wales from the UK. you can kick some of these things down the road like head of state, currency, central bank etc and still use those of the UK - although it's a funny kind of indepdence if you spend most of the time keeping the institutions of the UK.

The Monarchy isn't just an institution of the UK though, the current Monarch is the head of state of lots of different countries, 16 i believe. When Ireland became independent it kept the monarchy then became a republic at a later date . New Zealand has the monarch as head of state. So i don't see why Wales wouldn't keep the monarch as head of state unless the monarch personally refused the position. I don't see either how the UK or English government (depends on Scottish independence) would have any say in whether the monarch would continue to be the head of state for Wales or not as it would be between the Welsh state and the monarch themselves.

 

[Jerry]

If Wales gained independence so almost certainly would have Scotland, so it might be a question of England's institutions rather than the UK's which might no longer exist other than in perhaps a small Union with Northern Ireland.

I'd expect that in the event of Scottish independence the monarchy would revert to being the King/Queen of England and Lord of Ireland and King/Queen of Scots as they were before the union of crowns and on Welsh independence be invited to take up the vacant position of King/Queen of Wales.