Loganair

[David_itl]

Need to separate them out from the Flybe ops now? Released their summer schedule:
http://www.loganair.co.uk/loganair/...airline-launches-largest-ever-flight-schedule
http://www.loganair.co.uk/loganair/...airline-launches-largest-ever-flight-schedule
For MAN:

GLA goes to 4 weekdaily and new Sunday afternoon op
INV goes to 4 weekdaily

Through flight launched to Sumburgh/Stornoway

Flights bookable on Flybe's website?!

 

[Scottie Dog]

Excellent news.

 

[Comet]

I can't work this out at present.

The GLA/INV do not seem to go to 4 per day.

Monday and Friday seem to have a reduced service and there seem to be more northbound services than Southbound ones.

The new through services to Sumburgh/Stornoway do seem to help with long haul connections to them but not the other way because of timings and do not operate on all days.

It may change on 1 September 2017

 

[User001]

Maybe all flights have not been loaded yet.

 

[Comet]

Maybe all flights have not been loaded yet.

Unfortunately I think they are.

I notice Norwich is down to two a day on Monday as well

 

[User001]

They might not be all loaded, as I can't see how an airline would announce 4 daily on 2 routes but not withdraw them on the same day as the announcement?

 

[User001]

Loganair switch from SF340 to E145 from August.

 

[Scottie Dog]

An initial look at Loganair's winter schedule during the peak winter week has given the movements below - note that although both Benbecula and Stornaway are also listed they appear to be extensions of the Inverness flight and have therefore been excluded.


Loganair schedules -Tuesday 6th March 2018

Glasgow - arr 0755
Inverness - arr 0755
Norwich - arr 0755
Glasgow - dep 0840
Inverness - dep 0840
Norwich - dep 0840

Glasgow - arr 1110
Inverness - arr 1115
Inverness - dep 1145
Glasgow - dep 1205

Norwich - arr 1545
Inverness - arr 1555
Inverness - dep 1630
Norwich - dep 1630

Norwich - arr 1920
Inverness - arr 1935
Glasgow - arr 1935
Norwich - dep 2015
Glasgow - dep 2015
Inverness - dep 2020

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Loganair is already upping the ante in readiness for the battle with FlyBe after August 31st.

I flew down from Glasgow to MAN this evening aboard Saab 2000 G-LGNT (LOG85KG / BE6647). Whilst the franchise remains in force until the end of August, Loganair is already heavily promoting its own brand. Each seat cover has a section abeam eye-level on the back of the seat ahead detailing how to book flights operating after 31 August ... ie. with Loganair, via their own website and telephone reservations number. And in the Pier A arrivals corridor at Manchester there is now a huge Loganair advertisement promoting their three routes from MAN (and connections within Scotland beyond).

The franchise relationship with FlyBe has always been problematic. Loganair charges higher base-fares than FlyBe for comparable routes but then includes a 20kg checked bag and complimentary onboard drink and snack. They do not charge card fees on bookings. FlyBe themselves offer low initial fares, but charge extra increments for checked luggage and onboard catering. This has long caused consternation amongst connecting passengers in particular who book with "FlyBe" GLA-MAN and onward MAN-EXT (for example), only to encounter completely conflicting brand-values on the two sectors. Most passengers believe they are flying on the same airline, as they are supposed to. Why are we paying for baggage and food on one FlyBe flight but not on the other, they wonder. Understandably.

It is most unfortunate that FlyBe and Loganair appear to have 'irreconcilable differences'. From September 1st they will go head-to-head on several routes and it isn't going to be pretty. "FlyBe are frankly going to try and kill us," Loganair CEO Jonathan Hinkles has recently been reported as saying.

There were 38 passengers aboard tonight's 50-seater Saab 2000. Given Loganair's relatively high fares that should be a profitable load. But divide those 38 passengers between two competing flights* (September 1st onwards), likely with predatory fare-discounting in play too, and the economics will change dramatically. I suspect that it will prove very damaging for both carriers for as long as the confrontation persists.

* There should be upto eight return flights daily on MAN-GLA between the two competing brands wef September 1st. For a while, at least!

Putting aside who is in the right and who is in the wrong, I suspect that FlyBe will have the upper hand. Firstly, it is they who can offer the broader range of connections. Secondly, Loganair will be under pressure to match their headline fares ... but then they will still need to honour their commitment to accept a free 20kg checked bag and to provide free inflight catering. If they charge more, FlyBe will win the bookings ... most customers will go with the lower price. And of course, many passengers (like myself today) make no use of the included checked-baggage allowance anyway ... we're just paying a higher fare for a perk which adds no value for us.

One potential saving grace for Loganair is that there are reports that Eastern Airways will be providing MAN-GLA flights on behalf of the FlyBe franchise. They themselves are noted for high fares on their own branded routes ... will that become the business model on their version of the FlyBe franchise too? It will be easier for Loganair to match them if so. Then there is the question of aircraft types on the route ... will Eastern / FlyBe stick with the Saab 2000 or perhaps insert some Jetstream 41's into the schedule? Of course, Loganair could roster more smaller Saab 340's in turn. But these smaller commuter types risk undermining customer satisfaction on the route.

After alighting at MAN, it was apparent that many passengers took the right turn towards 'flight transfers'. Surely Eastern / FlyBe will be in pole position to secure the lion's share of this business?

It's going to be painful (for the two airlines) for a while after September 1st. Maybe a bit of a bonanza for customers for as long as the battle rages. But once common sense eventually prevails, we must hope that someone is left standing to offer a sustainable MAN-GLA schedule for the long-term. And to protect our established connecting passenger flows.

My understanding is that MAN-NWI will be flown by Loganair only post-August 31st. Likewise MAN-INV, though using BMIR-branded E145's (already introduced to the route). BMI Regional is under the same ownership as Loganair.

Changing tack completely, it was interesting (to me) to note that we followed FrenchBlue A350-900 down the ILS at Manchester tonight. If I'm not in a position to get a photo that view was the next best thing. We made a close pass of it on the taxiway system too. Glorious visibility on the approach tonight.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Loganair has just announced plans to increase MAN-GLA schedules to 6x daily return on weekdays. These flights operate in addition to the competing Eastern / FlyBe operation. A very ugly price war is looming. Lots of money will be lost all round until someone blinks.

On the plus-side (a small silver lining), if you fancy a flight between MAN and GLA there should be some very attractive deals on offer this Autumn. Until common sense prevails again anyway. Direct Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central rail services in the mix too.

 

[Aceshigh]

Can we cinform there are no JVs with Loganair.

I'm sure Norwich must have carried transfer traffic to the US so that is one regional airport about to go ?

 

[EGCC_MAN]

I believe NWI-MAN is popular for onward connections within the British Isles too. One of the less-easily accessed regions of the UK. Hope they do pull some codeshares / interline-deals out of the hat.

 

[lbaspotter]

Just been confirmed today that British Airways have signed an new agreement to code-share on Loganair's routes from Manchester to Glasgow, Inverness & Norwich once they go independent after breaking away from Flybe.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/b.../british-airways-confirms-codeshare-loganair/

 

[Dobbo]

Just been confirmed today that British Airways have signed an new agreement to code-share on Loganair's routes from Manchester to Glasgow, Inverness & Norwich once they go independent after breaking away from Flybe.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/b.../british-airways-confirms-codeshare-loganair/

Presumably opens up connections onto BA's codeshare network ex MAN on AA and QR.

 

[Aceshigh]

Are Loganair still offering through flights to Sumburgh /Stornoway ?

At least connectivity to Chicago and Philidephia is good news.

Biggest loss must be Norwich and thru service to US.

 

[David_itl]

What loss of Norwich service? It's a Loganair service and not Flybe

 

[User001]

Loganair may still interline with MAN airlines so that a single ticket can still get you from Norwich to the US.

 

[Jerry]

Considering their network from MAN Thomas Cook would be a good option for them if they don't already codeshare with them.

 

[David_itl]

An incident on the Friday afternoon flight from Inverness..

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...-forced-to-land-aftervapour-rises-from-floor/

It's the load that amazes me. 44 passengers on a 49 seater (assuming 2 pilots and a 1 cabin crew). Now if it was the 1st flight or last flight of the day, i could understand it being that high.

 

[Dobbo]

It does make you wonder whether we have misjudged these internal markets...