Outside Influences

[Dobbo]

Referenced the passenger numbers expected on the Beijing/Hong Kong services elsewhere. But this is the refreshing part of the article

"Graham Brady, MP, said: “This route has stimulated huge demand for travel between China and the UK and in doing so has delivered a wide range of benefits to the Northern economy, including significantly increasing exports, inward investment and tourism.

“The scale of impact clearly illustrates just how beneficial having strong links with high growth markets can be and why Government should be doing everything it can to further improve connectivity between the North and the world.”"

As the Chairman of the 1922 Committee, perhaps he can bend a few MPs ears regarding APD/bilaterals

https://businessmanchester.co.uk/20...ajor-boost-regions-retailers-build-christmas/

It wouldn't surprise me if the coming 5-10 years saw a few incentives (either from central government or a devolved regional government) to start direct routes to some other large markets from MAN. I don't think it needs to be "high growth" markets, there are plenty of major commercial centres without a regular direct scheduled link. Having a links to major hubs on every continent has to be a major objective.

 

[David_itl]

More high-brow jobs coming to the region:

"German-headquartered Qiagen, which already has staff based in the city, will expand into a campus to work on genomics and diagnostics.Together with a number of other science-based companies the campus is expected to create around 800 skilled jobs and is being developed in partnership with Health Innovation Manchester."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...s/life-sciences-investment-bring-800-13959258

 

[Aceshigh]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/n...-airport-arrivals-departures-security-breach/


Mass fury erupted yesterday as Manchester Airport was apparently thrown into total chaos based on an original headline by the MEN.

It was awful said one distraught Daily Telegraph reader " one minute we were departing with all the other Daily Telegraph readers when we were cross contaminated with some Guardian readers coming in the other direction"

An airport spokesperson admitted a "singular door" was opened in error, according to The DailyTelegraph this led to utter and total widespread panic throughout the whole airport complex.

MAG later confirned it will provide councelling for all passengers caught up on this incident especially atypical families allowed out of the airport through security without the normal 50 minute wait !

"Miss Non-Story who rang the MEN indicating she would be seeking compensation later admitted the image she submitted to The Daily Telegraph was not infact Manchester but her and mate Sharon arriving at Corfu, 2000 miles away back in May."

NOTE TO READER
Any similarities to a real story and this utter codswallop promoted initiatially by the MEN and later by The Daily Telegraph really is coincidental!

 

[David_itl]

Good to see a Northern region trying to get people on to a Northern service instead of relying on the inbound to London and then transfer northwards. The more more this type of promotion work can be done, the better.

https://www.minsterfm.com/news/local/2443932/new-china-sales-mission-targets-tourists-to-york/

 

[Aceshigh]

Good to see a Northern region trying to get people on to a Northern service instead of relying on the inbound to London and then transfer northwards. The more more this type of promotion work can be done, the better.

https://www.minsterfm.com/news/local/2443932/new-china-sales-mission-targets-tourists-to-york/

This is excellent and precisely the type of marketing N Wales Lake District s/ be doing as well as Liverpool!

Manchesteris at the epicentre and should profit.

 

[Dobbo]

A sensible decision IMHO.

The Government will tell the EU it wishes to stay in a key aviation safety body, under the indirect jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, in order to keep planes flying after Brexit.

Sky News understands the UK will say it wants to remain in the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), which runs safety and maintenance checks and sets crucial standards across Europe and the UK.

https://news.sky.com/story/govt-to-...-body-in-blurring-of-brexit-red-line-11151049

 

[Jerry]

A sensible decision IMHO.

The Government will tell the EU it wishes to stay in a key aviation safety body, under the indirect jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, in order to keep planes flying after Brexit.

Sky News understands the UK will say it wants to remain in the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), which runs safety and maintenance checks and sets crucial standards across Europe and the UK.

https://news.sky.com/story/govt-to-...-body-in-blurring-of-brexit-red-line-11151049

That should then hopefully pave the way for the UK to stay in Open Skies as well I'd have thought.

 

[User001]

Keeping EASA is great, but as time goes on, with the amount of EU policies we end up adopting, makes you wonder what the actual point of Brexit is?

 

[Dobbo]

Keeping EASA is great, but as time goes on, with the amount of EU policies we end up adopting, makes you wonder what the actual point of Brexit is?

Its such a flexible concept now, and keeps evolving, it is very much in the air. My best guess is that, practically, it will end up being a trade off between: UK regain border and immigration control, ability to forge new trading relationships; UK lose ability to shape EU policy and some businesses dependant on being in EU.

I.e. much effort expended, very little meaningful change.

Anyway, as soon as there is certainty, provided its not a catastrophe, there will probably be another boom. Weird how economics works.

 

[rutamkrd]

Acceptance of EASA jurisdiction of safety airworthiness and certifications and indirect ECJ arbitration in no way implies that UK PLC will retain full and unfettered access to the Single Market Openskys treaties.
i.e bmiRegional, Eastern, EasyJet and Flybe intra European operations and networks remain under threat.

The two issues re quite different and aren’t linked.

What is becoming more and more clear is the fact that Mrs Mays want for throwing out the ECJ an independent court of arbitration can’t be accomplished period stop.

 

[Dobbo]

Acceptance of EASA jurisdiction of safety airworthiness and certifications and indirect ECJ arbitration in no way implies that UK PLC will retain full and unfettered access to the Single Market Openskys treaties.
i.e bmiRegional, Eastern, EasyJet and Flybe intra European operations and networks remain under threat.

The two issues re quite different and aren’t linked.

What is becoming more and more clear is the fact that Mrs Mays want for throwing out the ECJ an independent court of arbitration can’t be accomplished period stop.

Is the point not that the government seem to be inching towards a business as usual/no change scenario in the aviation industry, rather than this being a final position?

 

[rutamkrd]

The openskys treaty requires compliance with single market conditions and regulations including the authority of the ECJ as an arbitration court.

Mrs May has said on numerous occasions that the UK will have to leave the single market because we can’t and won’t comply with the four pillars including free movement of labour.

The Noway option doesn’t meet with the Brexiteers demands on that front, whilst Switzerland actually added free movement via being a Schengen signatory !

There is not way for the status quo to remain and it will not be business as usual for the UK aviation industry.

 

[Jerry]

The openskys treaty requires compliance with single market conditions and regulations including the authority of the ECJ as an arbitration court.

Mrs May has said on numerous occasions that the UK will have to leave the single market because we can’t and won’t comply with the four pillars including free movement of labour.

The Noway option doesn’t meet with the Brexiteers demands on that front, whilst Switzerland actually added free movement via being a Schengen signatory !

There is not way for the status quo to remain and it will not be business as usual for the UK aviation industry.

The USA is part of Open Skies yet I highly doubt it's Supreme Court is under the ECJ.
I read online somewhere that the UK government were going to accept the ECJ as an arbitrator for EU citizens rights but that only the UK Supreme Court can refer cases to it so something similar may well happen with Open Skies. Also you don't need to have freedom of movement or be part of Schengen to partake in Open Skies. I believe there are plenty of countries that are part of the Open Skies treaty that are not in the EU or Schengen.
What may well change is that for airlines like Ryanair they may well require an UK AOC to base aircraft in the UK or the UK could turn around and say that any airline with an EU AOC can base aircraft in the UK. At the moment that is an unknown as it has yet to decided. In the end both sides will compromise.

 

[rutamkrd]

Openskys and the internal EU single aviation market are NOT the same thing

The element of the EU treaty that is unique is that of sixth and seventh freedoms that’s allowed Ryanair , Wizz, Easyjet and others to periferlate, with the ECJ being the legal arbitrator.

The EU are working to expand the number of openskys treaties with other domaines however those countries don’t have access to sixth or seventh freedoms within the community. US carriers may not operate scheduled domestic passenger services within the UK or within Germany for instance

Oh and phase 2 quietly got brushed under carpet in the US treaties which would have seen the foreign ownership limits in the US Rise to upto 49% and the prospect of cabotage!

The US carriers were quite satisfied that Brussels acted to open LHR to them me thinks.

UK plc weren’t about to.

OH and yes the ECJ does remain the court of arbitration for EU carrier disputes.

EU openskys treaties exist with Morocco Israel USA Canada among others.

 

[rutamkrd]

BTW Ryanair holds a dormant GB license acquired when Buzz was bought from KLM.

Commercially the industry gets more and more complicated all the time yet the largest market remains subject to huge protectionism (THE USA) with its enormous domestic operation whilst worrying about a dozen Emirates flights a day taking a few clients via Dubai.

Personally I favour removals of many of the aged regulations including ownership and and archeic practises imposed on this industry particularly in the US however the strong lobbies and vested interests ensure its not changing any time soon.

 

[Aceshigh]

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6c2ec677-57d8-4ec3-b70f-87c44548a9b5

Heathrow debate later

 

[Dobbo]

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6c2ec677-57d8-4ec3-b70f-87c44548a9b5

Heathrow debate later

Listened to this on my way home. Not much of relevance. LHR's north west runway has taken lots of flack for the environmental, noise, economic, regional and even connectivity case.

Interestingly, LGW was claiming it had a better regional case due to the "direct regional connections" maintained by the regions.

Interesting to see the debate continue to evolve.

 

[Jerry]

Gatwick Airport has the following domestic routes (not including Channel islands or Isle of Man)
Aberdeen, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Newquay (PSO). Mix of BA, Easyjet and Flybe
Heathrow
Aberdeen, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Leeds Bradford, Manchester and Newcastle. All provided by British Airways and connecting into their long haul network and Flybe.
If Gatwick were serious about developing a UK wide regional network then surely they would be trying to attract Flybe to provide that network or trying to get Easyjet and British Airways to expand theirs.
If Heathrow gets it's 3rd runway then it's possible that their will be more regional flights probably from Flybe but most of the extra flights will be European or long haul. If Gatwick gets it's second runway then more than likely they'll just increase their long haul offerings and other European leisure destinations without a significant increase in domestic flights.

 

[Dobbo]

Gatwick Airport has the following domestic routes (not including Channel islands or Isle of Man)
Aberdeen, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Newquay (PSO). Mix of BA, Easyjet and Flybe
Heathrow
Aberdeen, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Leeds Bradford, Manchester and Newcastle. All provided by British Airways and connecting into their long haul network and Flybe.
If Gatwick were serious about developing a UK wide regional network then surely they would be trying to attract Flybe to provide that network or trying to get Easyjet and British Airways to expand theirs.
If Heathrow gets it's 3rd runway then it's possible that their will be more regional flights probably from Flybe but most of the extra flights will be European or long haul. If Gatwick gets it's second runway then more than likely they'll just increase their long haul offerings and other European leisure destinations without a significant increase in domestic flights.

I think that's true, and that's what LGW were basing their regional argument off.

The gist of it is something like: we won't have UK feeder traffic therefore we won't cannibalise regional flying, meaning that the regions still benefit from "direct connectivity".

Obviously there is more to it that this, and the extent to which MAN is affected is questionable. However, interesting argument I've not heard before.

 

[Aceshigh]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Manchester serves 18 domestic destinations. It trounces the London airports on connectivity at least in terms of destinations.

That is of course somewhat double edged as Heathrow and Gatwick will argue that they don't have the domestic feed due to runway constraints, a somewhat flaky response given that FlyBe pulled out of Gatwick and Virgin pulled out of Heathrow!