Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations

[TheLocalYokel]

Is it correct to state that these diversions (assuming the pax disembark) will be added to BRS monthly pax numbers?

If so, it will distort the pax statistics for Dec and Jan 17 as there have been quite a lot.

They won't be added to the CAA stats for BRS whenever they are published. The CAA always carries this notation on its airport stats:

In order to preserve market analysis all identifiable diversions are reallocated to the point of intended operation.

BRS will presumably get landing fees etc though.

BRS stats are always something of a pig's ear because, for some reason (I know not what) the airport excludes certain types of traveller (under 2s for example) in its own figures whereas the CAA includes them.

The result is that most months the BRS passenger figures are a few thousand down on the CAA stats and noticeably down when it comes to the annual total.

June last year was typical and I posted then: The CAA shows BRS handling 773,640 passengers in June, a rise of 10% on June 2015. This is 9,000 more than the airport's own figure which most BRS followers of this thread will know is because the airport doesn't count some types of passenger; under 2s for starters.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Monday 30 January 2017

It's a bit misty and murky today and a couple of diversions have ensued.

Brussels Airlines E145, SN2055 (op by bmi regional) from Brussels due at 1005 diverted to Exeter. Interestingly bmi regional E145 BM1882 from Paris Cdg landed (at 1005 per FR24, estimating 1011 per BRS arrivals).

bmi regional E145, BM1822 from Frankfurt due 1030 diverted to Cardiff.

In addition, bmi regional E145, BM1832 from Hamburg due 1115 and Aer Lingus Regional (Stobart) ATR72, EI3282 from Dublin also due 1115 both circled for a while before landing at 1132 and 1136 respectively.

 

[Aviador]

BRS will presumably get landing fees etc though.

Many airports offer discounted landing fees to inbound diversion aircraft. I don't know if this applies to BRS though.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Monday 30 January 2017

It's a bit misty and murky today and a couple of diversions have ensued.

Brussels Airlines E145, SN2055 (op by bmi regional) from Brussels due at 1005 diverted to Exeter. Interestingly bmi regional E145 BM1882 from Paris Cdg landed (at 1005 per FR24, estimating 1011 per BRS arrivals).

bmi regional E145, BM1822 from Frankfurt due 1030 diverted to Cardiff.

In addition, bmi regional E145, BM1832 from Hamburg due 1115 and Aer Lingus Regional (Stobart) ATR72, EI3282 from Dublin also due 1115 both circled for a while before landing at 1132 and 1136 respectively.

Monday 30 January 2017

More diversions later today because of the mist/low cloud.

Brussels Airlines E145, SN2057 (op by bmi regional) from Brussels due 1700 diverted to Birmingham
easyJet A320, EZY 6156 from Geneva due 1735 diverted to Birmingham
easyJet A319, EZY 406 from Glasgow due 1800 diverted to Birmingham
Thomas Cook A321, TCX1237 from Las Palmas due 1830 diverted to Birmingham

In addition, Aurigny ATR72, GR 642/643 from/to Guernsey 1150/1220 and bmi regional E145, BM 1867/1868 to/from Dusseldorf 1725/2055 were cancelled.

If there are no more diversions it will mean that nearly 70 landed normally today plus six diversions and two cancellations. There are about one dozen still to land this evening.

 

[kraktoa]

What is the point of ILS if aircraft cannot land in mist, let alone fog.

 

[NOSIGWX]

What is the point of ILS if aircraft cannot land in mist, let alone fog.

Bristol is quite unusual in having a Cat 3 ILS at one end (27) and a Cat 1 on 09. When runway 27 is in use all EZY, TOM, TCX, WZZ etc flights can land in pretty much zero visibility, providing all equipment on the Aircraft & on the ground is serviceable & the crew are qualified to make the Cat 3 approach. Other airlines like BMI, STK etc can only make a CAT 2 approach, therefore requiring a greater RVR, usually 400m. I think it's only BCI that can only make the CAT 1 approach, needing 700m to land.
When runway 09 is in use all aircraft require the 700m RVR to be able to make the approach. Some aircraft may opt for runway 27 with a tailwind, but all airlines & aircraft types have their own limitations, or possibly not enough fuel to hold for their required runway.
It's a tricky subject to explain, but I hope this helps.

 

[andrewgreen]

It's has been the same for a while , is there a reason why the airport don't upgrade 09 to Cat1 ? After all i would imagine not a huge expense compared to what they are spending elsewhere.

 

[andrewgreen]

Sorry that should have been upgrade to cat 3 !

 

[Land23R]

Leeds-Bradford is similar with CAT3 on R32 but only Cat1 on 14.

I don't know if Cat 2 and Cat 1 limits vary depending on airfield or aircraft, but at MAN, Cat 1 is 550m (and I think a limit on cloud base) and Cat2 is 300m as far as I know. The other issue is that Cat 3 can be Cat 3A or Cat 3B. I stand to be corrected but I believe 3A requires 200m RVR whereas 3B can be as low as 75m.

Are Ryanair aircraft only Cat 3A, but Easyjet with their Airbus a/c 3B? I'm sure Ryanair have problems if the RVR drops below 200m.

 

[NOSIGWX]

It's has been the same for a while , is there a reason why the airport don't upgrade 09 to Cat1 ? After all i would imagine not a huge expense compared to what they are spending elsewhere.

The steep drop off at the 09 end has meant that previously CAT 3 approaches wouldn't be permitted, but with improvements in technology this might change in the near future.

 

[NOSIGWX]

Leeds-Bradford is similar with CAT3 on R32 but only Cat1 on 14.

I don't know if Cat 2 and Cat 1 limits vary depending on airfield or aircraft, but at MAN, Cat 1 is 550m (and I think a limit on cloud base) and Cat2 is 300m as far as I know. The other issue is that Cat 3 can be Cat 3A or Cat 3B. I stand to be corrected but I believe 3A requires 200m RVR whereas 3B can be as low as 75m.

Are Ryanair aircraft only Cat 3A, but Easyjet with their Airbus a/c 3B? I'm sure Ryanair have problems if the RVR drops below 200m.

I think you're right, Ryanair can't operate if the RVR drops below 200m. although this is quite a rare occurrence, even at Bristol. The 700m CAT 1 minima is quite high at Bristol due to the interesting topography!

 

[andrewgreen]

Ok I thought that might be the issue , maybe a cheaper alternative would be a lot of in fill from the excavations elsewhere on the airport !

 

[superking]

It's has been the same for a while , is there a reason why the airport don't upgrade 09 to Cat1 ? After all i would imagine not a huge expense compared to what they are spending elsewhere.

It would cost a fortune to have cat 3 on 09 with the cost of equipment. but the biggest expence is the ground terrain on the 09 end. the terrain drops away very quick and they would have to build up the ground or do like they done at ace and put the end of runway on stilts with large concrete slabs . runway 27 no problem as the land is flatand they cant extend that end or they would be onto lulsgate common then the nimbys wouyld be out in force.but the problem is the ground terrain on the end of 09. if you drive round to winters lane you will see what I'm saying.this has all been discussed to death in the past. the biggest problem is the airport should have been relocated to Filton when it was still open. they closed one of the longest runways in England and that was a shame.

 

[superking]

It would mean shutting runway for a while but a good start to make up ground where it drops away would be to level out the runway and surrounding ground. that would also make landings on 09 a lot better then. but very deep pockets to do that and cant see any one to shut runway for a few months at least. then not enough problems to warrant the expence.

 

[superking]

I think if its cat 3b or 3a depends on runway and type of aircraft. perhaps some one with a bit more info ot could confirm or disagree in what I say.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Bristol is quite unusual in having a Cat 3 ILS at one end (27) and a Cat 1 on 09. When runway 27 is in use all EZY, TOM, TCX, WZZ etc flights can land in pretty much zero visibility, providing all equipment on the Aircraft & on the ground is serviceable & the crew are qualified to make the Cat 3 approach. Other airlines like BMI, STK etc can only make a CAT 2 approach, therefore requiring a greater RVR, usually 400m. I think it's only BCI that can only make the CAT 1 approach, needing 700m to land.
When runway 09 is in use all aircraft require the 700m RVR to be able to make the approach. Some aircraft may opt for runway 27 with a tailwind, but all airlines & aircraft types have their own limitations, or possibly not enough fuel to hold for their required runway.
It's a tricky subject to explain, but I hope this helps.

I think you're right, Ryanair can't operate if the RVR drops below 200m. although this is quite a rare occurrence, even at Bristol. The 700m CAT 1 minima is quite high at Bristol due to the interesting topography!

I've noticed in the past that easyJet often lands in Cat3 conditions on 27 whereas Ryanair will divert. I've asked why this is so and the consensus seems to be that it's the type of aircraft operated by Ryanair (B 738). I have no idea whether this is the reason.

Incidentally, a couple of months ago the local rag carried an article about the BRS weather (see link at the bottom of this post) and came up with the opposite scenario saying: Ryanair, for instance, are often more able to take off and land in fog at Bristol Airport than their main airport rivals Easyjet. That's certainly not what I've noted in recent years.

Another point I meant to raise yesterday was why two easyJets and one Thomas Cook diverted (to BHX) when so far as I know rw 27 was the active runway. All the other easyJet, Ryanair, Thomson etc managed to land according to FR24 and the BRS arrivals board. Would those crews not be 'current' with ILS 3b approaches? if so it seems a little odd given BRS's weather.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/why-ar...d-not-others/story-29961401-detail/story.html

 

[superking]

well if all crews that work for EasyJet then perhaps when they do their training it should be included. if it was then it would save a lot of money for u2 and a lot of stress for the pax in not knowing where they will land and what sort of time for getting home.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Several aircraft in the hold at present including a couple of bmi regionals and KLM Cityhopper E190. Presumably the strong crosswinds are the reason as visibility seems fine.

 

[Aviador]

The required distance during LVPs is also dependant on the provision of AGL for example, supplementary lighting is required for CAT2 and CAT3 approaches. I believe supplementary lighting also reduces the IRVR requirement for CAT1 approaches from 600 or 700m to usually 550m. This is the best achievable runway visual range achievable at CAT1. At LBA runway 32 is certified as CAT3b which is very much dependant on aircraft capabilities. Runway 14 is certified CAT1 with a minima of 550m.

I guess the difference between LBA and BRS is at LBA there is a displaced threshold at both ends of the runway. The paved area at BRS is shorter so this is probably the reason CAT1 minima is 600m or 700m on runway 09, that assuming the information in this thread is correct.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Monday 13 February 2017 (1200 hours)

Several aircraft have been holding and flying circuits for the last 15-20 minutes but they now seem to be landing. Was there a short-lived problem at BRS?