Thomas Cook

[User001]

Times of the new San Fransisco flights

MT2864 MAN 1200 SFO 1435
MT2865 SFO 1635 MAN 1030+1

Thu and sun from May 25th

I think San Fran is a massive coup for MAN, no matter who operates it. I personally think this is as good as Beijing for a new route!

 

[jfy1999]

The Thomas Cook juggernaut brings more dividends for MAN

2017 confirmed increases:

New York increases to 9 weekly
Miami increases to 3 weekly (Tu/Fr/Su
Los Angeles increases to 3 weekly (Mo/We/Sa)

New route to San Fransisco every Thu and Sun.

I think we can safely say we now have west coast USA covered!

Seems like more A330s might be needed soon!

 

[Dobbo]

Times of the new San Fransisco flights

MT2864 MAN 1200 SFO 1435
MT2865 SFO 1635 MAN 1030+1

Thu and sun from May 25th

I think San Fran is a massive coup for MAN, no matter who operates it. I personally think this is as good as Beijing for a new route!

Agreed - it is very significant. I am of the view that to become "established" you need a route to become 4xweekly and year round, but to start the ball rolling it is superb. It may draw new entrants into the market, it may not. Either way it is a massive show of support for the North and MAN in particular.

More A330s indeed!

 

[David_itl]

I would suspect that this is 1 of the infamous list of 25 long-haul routes to be crossed off!

The good thing about having TCX on the route is that they won't be competing with themselves to route passengers over a London Airport as I'm not over confident that a legacy carrier would allow any potential premium payer to route over MAN.

Combining LAX with SFO:

Mon, Wed, Thu. Sat and Sun

Think when BA has their 5 weekly service to LAX it was daily except Tuesday and Thurday so this TCX schedule is marginally more leisure focused.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Outstanding programme from TCX. Quick question: what is the proposed Summer 2017 frequency to Orlando? Is it more than 7 flights per week? (8 rings a bell).

If Orlando does operate 8x weekly, then the total TCX transatlantic programme from MAN will be 36 departures per week. Pretty amazing.

 

[Dobbo]

There would be no way BA could make a west coast route work. Not whilst they have A380s operating to both LAX and SFO. It is clearly in their interests to route PAX via LHR.

Aside from TCX the only real option aside from a US carrier perhaps would be VS.

The 1200 departure allows connections from BE.

 

[jfy1999]

Looks like the A330s will have to be re-allocated from some summer short haul routes although with 3 more new A321s due to arrive before the summer it should enable them to increase frequencies on the short haul flights to make up for the difference in seats.

This seems to be the philosophy of the leisure carriers at LGW—smaller aircraft, higher frequencies, which is why we often see more short haul heavies at MAN.

 

[Dobbo]

It's odd that you would go for frequency at Gatwick, the more congested airport when you would expect a carrier to te and maximise the revenue from its slot.

 

[jfy1999]

It's odd that you would go for frequency at Gatwick, the more congested airport when you would expect a carrier to te and maximise the revenue from its slot.

I would argue Gatwick is congested precisely because carriers have opted for frequency over aircraft size. Mind you, TCX based at least one Hi Fly A340 at LGW last year!

 

[Dobbo]

Possibly, but you don't get to 40 million PAX per year on one runway without using decently sized aircraft!

 

[Dobbo]

Looks like SFO has been dropped, and the frequency increase to LAX and JFK that was being expected in S17 has also been dropped.

Caveat that this is subject to further change, but it does not make encouraging reading. Any further updates?

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38...k-revises-manchester-s17-long-haul-schedules/

 

[Land23R]

Yes I saw that on another forum from routes online. Don't know what the heck is going on.
Two vague thoughts - hasn't there been a change of top management fairly recently?
Is it just possible TC are waiting for the outcome of the EU referendum before finalising plans for the US?
(Would a brexit vote have any significance in terms of open skies agreements with the US?)

 

[Dobbo]

I don't think Brexit would directly affect it immediately. It may have led to a climate where there is reduced demand due to economic uncertainty.

It could be a lack of aircraft, or lack of underlying demand. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can set the record straight.

 

[Dobbo]

Do we have any more Information on TCX next move at MAN?

For example, did they pull out of their expansion because of VS move on SFO or was it because of aircraft?

Might they look elsewhere for expansion, or look to consolidate (e.g. Focus on MIA, LAX and compete on BOS?)

 

[User001]

They held off the expansion as the deal for the A330 they were supposed to aquire fell through.

They still want to add SFO and increase LAX, their overall aim is to have the west coast at daily (4 LAX 3 SFO) and daily LAS, is this helps give more options for west coast multi centre breaks (Las Vgas and Los Angeles or San Fransisco and Los Angeles as examples).

Expansion will come once an A330 can be sought, all of a sudden the aircraft has had a boost in popularity and seems almost everyone wants second hand ones.

 

[Dobbo]

There do seem to be a number of operators replacing A330s with B787s and A350s. There may be some more coming on the market by next summer?

I'd have thought they would consider CPT, given that they serve it from LGW, do not serve it from MAN and may choose to focus on a route where they have no competition.

 

[User001]

It seems that Thomas Cook could be sold of to Lufthansa and then be rebranded as Euro wings.

It's an interesting move for a number of reasons:

Thomas Cook Airlines, particularly long haul seems to have been set up so that it can be lifted out of the Thomas Cook brand and then be run as a separate company, and now, this company could be a Euro wings.

Eurowings has said it would like to open more bases, including the UK, so, could be the spring board to this. Eurowings also by name, has the pan-European awareness. It also means that the scope of destinations TCX currently serves could be expanded to compete more with the low costs. Maybe routes like MAN-Barcelona (not saying MAN needs more BCN, just the types of routes that could open.

Obviously there is the fleet commonality at the UK end, with Eurowings being the same A330/A320 family combo as TCX.

My main concern is that TCX has done a good job at bedding in the MAN long haul, but, looking on forums and airline route, Eurowings seem to be having issues, with routes being cut last minute, changed and delayed. Would not want that culture to affect the TCX network.

Could be an interesting year, with potentially Monarch and the TCX brand going in the airline industry, but I don't think this will be the end of it.

What's funny is, Michael O'Leary said the number of European airlines will keep decreasing, and he's right so far!

 

[User001]

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-trb-lax-thomas-cook-new-airlines-20160426-snap-story.html

It seems like a good article to begin with, but comments such as 'Manchester isn't convenient, being about 200 miles north of London'.

Shows the mentality we have in getting people to know a whole country exists outside of London, and that business/tourism doesn't start and end at the capital.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-trb-lax-thomas-cook-new-airlines-20160426-snap-story.html

It seems like a good article to begin with, but comments such as 'Manchester isn't convenient, being about 200 miles north of London'.

Shows the mentality we have in getting people to know a whole country exists outside of London, and that business/tourism doesn't start and end at the capital.

Slightly off topic but confirms your statement when in 1996 my wife and I were in a US hotel at the time of the Manchester PIRA bombing. We were watching one of the main broadcast channel's news (CBS, NBC - can't remember which) when our attention was drawn to a caption that introduced a developing news story.

The caption read 'London Bombing'. The news reader then went on to tell us that a major terrorist attack had occurred in the English northwest city of Manchester, 200 miles from London. I know that Americans by nature tend to be insular when it comes to a knowledge of the world and world events if they don't feature the USA so it seemed to us that the broadcaster was echoing this in that the editor believed that his/her fellow citizens had probably heard of London but anywhere else might not be generally known.

 

[Dobbo]

It's the issues that arise where your capital is also the economic, cultural and political hub. Via LHR it is also the aviation hub. The casual view of the UK is that London is the only place to be.

Clearly it is not, but Manchester and the North can sell its self better. It seems to work for the Chinese market and in time I'm sure that will be repeated elsewhere.