KLM

[superking]

The reason why the B737 is being used at a lot of airports in Europe is due to shortage of aircraft on maintainence,as this time of year is fairly quiet.No doubt they will learn a lot about this operation,as its only a few weeks for it to operate.

 

[Jerry]

The reason why the B737 is being used at a lot of airports in Europe is due to shortage of aircraft on maintainence,as this time of year is fairly quiet.No doubt they will learn a lot about this operation,as its only a few weeks for it to operate.

I'd be surprised at that considering the type of airline KLM is. If they were short of aircraft why not just replace one of the E175s on a normal flight rather than add a 4th flight?
It'll be interesting to see how the route grows in March.

 

[superking]

I'd be surprised at that considering the type of airline KLM is. If they were short of aircraft why not just replace one of the E175s on a normal flight rather than add a 4th flight?
It'll be interesting to see how the route grows in March.

It happens every year but not shown up much as a lot of fk70 and fk100 knocking about. These 2 types of aircraft helped out KLM before they were retired completely.

 

[Cardiffbay]

Off to Germany again in a few weeks via Amsterdam. I am on the new early afternoon flight back.

 

[Jerry]

Will be interesting to see how well they fill that flight over the next few weeks.

 

[Jerry]

The first 737 flight is today. So for the next 5 weeks KLM will be 4 daily departures Monday to Friday and 3 on the weekends.

 

[Jerry]

As the CAA have been slow releasing the total figures for 2018 i decided not too wait and add up Amsterdams figures for myself.

In 2017 KLM carried 134,095 passengers in and out of Cardiff in 2018 this has gone up to 146,328. An extra 12,233 passengers have used the route in 2018 which is essentially an extra months worth of passengers and is growth of 9.1%.
November was the busiest month (13,472) with 9 months of the year over the 12,000 passenger mark.
Hopefully this growth will continue and will lead to larger aircraft in the long term.
It's also noticeable that fears that Qatar would just take KLMs passengers and that they would be forced out seem to be unfounded.

 

[geoff]

That's good news Jerry, I read in a travel magazine last week, that more people were booking long haul holidays this year, perhaps this will benefit both Qatar and KLM even more.

 

[Cardiffbay]

That's good news Jerry, I read in a travel magazine last week, that more people were booking long haul holidays this year, perhaps this will benefit both Qatar and KLM even more.

I know a lot of people how this year are going long haul and Turkey mainly due to the brexit uncertainties as they don’t want to wait till April to book their holidays so see long haul as a safer bet.

 

[Jerry]

That's good news Jerry, I read in a travel magazine last week, that more people were booking long haul holidays this year, perhaps this will benefit both Qatar and KLM even more.

I also think the airport is pushing city breaks using KLM as well.
Also i've just read something that the 4th daily flight is a trial. So hopefully even if it's next year the 4th daily may come back.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

As the CAA have been slow releasing the total figures for 2018 i decided not too wait and add up Amsterdams figures for myself.

In 2017 KLM carried 134,095 passengers in and out of Cardiff in 2018 this has gone up to 146,328. An extra 12,233 passengers have used the route in 2018 which is essentially an extra months worth of passengers and is growth of 9.1%.
November was the busiest month (13,472) with 9 months of the year over the 12,000 passenger mark.
Hopefully this growth will continue and will lead to larger aircraft in the long term.
It's also noticeable that fears that Qatar would just take KLMs passengers and that they would be forced out seem to be unfounded.

It's a good increase, especially as there were restrictions with KLM at AMS last year, not just from CWL.

Elsewhere in F4A I calculated an approximate average load for the CWL KLM flights in 2017. It was difficult to be absolutely accurate because I did not have a complete list of all flights that operated - there were a number of cancellations because of weather at AMS and for other reasons, again not just with the CWL route. My best estimate was that CWL saw an annual average load of around 62 in 2017. Most of the flights were on the E175 but some would have been on the larger E190. 62 per flight on the E175 would give a load factor of around 70%. In 2018 with a 9.1% increase the average laod would increase to around 68 (77% load factor on the E175, although of course some of the flights were on the larger E190).

CWL's AMS route is certainly growing and it might therefore not be a surprise that a B737 is appearing as a fourth aircraft for a few weeks in the early part of this year.

As a rough guide CWL would need to be able to sustain significantly over 200,000 passengers a year if it was looking to become a 4 x daily E190 service. I base this on BRS in 2017 when over 260,000 of its 410,000 AMS passengers were KLM travellers, an average of around 90 per flight - the others were from easyJet.

It can be done. CWL's best AMS year was in 2007 when 225,000 passengers were carried, albeit bmi baby also operated the route against KLM then.

Obviously passenger numbers alone only tell part of the story. Although the loads are lower at CWL than at BRS the yields might be better. Only the airline will know.

 

[Jerry]

Obviously passenger numbers alone only tell part of the story. Although the loads are lower at CWL than at BRS the yields might be better. Only the airline will know.

With KLM I think we also need to factor in connecting passengers as that's what they want. I wonder if at CWL because it's further from Heathrow and has a lot less direct flights to Europe than Bristol does that the ratio of onward connecting passenger to passengers just travelling to Amsterdam is quite high? They must think CWL has more promise just to trial it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

With KLM I think we also need to factor in connecting passengers as that's what they want. I wonder if at CWL because it's further from Heathrow and has a lot less direct flights to Europe than Bristol does that the ratio of onward connecting passenger to passengers just travelling to Amsterdam is quite high? They must think CWL has more promise just to trial it.

Given that BRS had almost twice as many KLM AMS passengers than CWL in 2017 from around 50% more seats each week, the actual numbers of passengers as well as the ratio re onward connecting passengers would likely be higher. Also bear in mind that many point to point travellers would use easyJet.

BRS's KLM AMS numbers rose by 143% in the six years to 2017. 2018 has seen a provisional gain of 23,641 passengers (up 5.7%) on the AMS route. We don't know how this breaks down between KLM and easyJet but based on 2017 it would mean that KLM had just under 15,000 of the additional 23,641 passengers.

My belief is that the reason that CWL was given a fourth rotation in the form of a B737 for a few weeks is because it's still picking the apples on the lower branches. In other words it is still relatively under-provisioned. What the next step would be I don't know. Would KLM go straight to a 4 x daily service with E175s, E190s or a mixture even perhaps including a B737? If they had 190s/737s alone on the route at 4 x daily that would mean they'd be looking at the apples near the top of the tree as perhaps the airline thinks Bristol is doing.

Another thought is would KLM have put in a fifth daily flight at BRS with a 737 if they'd been aware some time ago that the BRS routes to FRA and MUC would disappear with their healthy number of onward travellers from those airports?

We should get a better idea of KLM's intentions at CWL (allowing for any Brexit difficulties and not just with CWL of course) in the next 12 months.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

The whole extra 737 operation they are doing at CWL and other Airports is still a bit bizarre for KLM. Historically they have always gradually increased services as demand grows. For example, 2x daily tends to become 3x daily with a night stopping aircraft. 3x daily E75 gradually changes to E90 services. Usually it's 4 or more daily flights until a 737 from mainline starts to come in. Don't forget that KL Cityhopper and KL Mainline are effectively 2 different operations serving the same product. KLC will have their own Hotel/Transport arrangements, crews and operating procedures.
BRS was supposed to be getting at least one flight upgraded to the 737 back in 2017, but for some reason it never happened. I would've thought the next step for CWL have been an E75/E90 4th flight, but i'm guessing it's due to KLC's shortage of fleet for the requirements. Stobart have just started operating E90's for them as well this week. Also given the other 3 flights are long established routes, I would've thought that the 737 would've been placed on those 3 flights.
The early AM flight is generally popular with people connecting through Europe, often on day times, along with some connections to the early TATL flights.
The second AM is popular with AMS only, Middle East and TATL connections
The evening flight is popular with European connections, often day trips returning home, and Asia connections.
The 4th mid afternoon flight doesn't really fit well with many of these, it's too late for TATL and a bit early for the late East connections. It also doesn't allow a full day for day trippers.
It's obviously a trial going on, utilising the fleet from KL mainline during the quieter months. I can't see CWL getting a regular 737 operation and a 4th flight only if a KLC aircraft is available to operate it.

 

[Jerry]

The 4th mid afternoon flight doesn't really fit well with many of these,

It's handy for returning connecting passengers that miss the morning return and negates a long layover of sometimes up to 8 hours.

 

[superking]

With KLM I think we also need to factor in connecting passengers as that's what they want. I wonder if at CWL because it's further from Heathrow and has a lot less direct flights to Europe than Bristol does that the ratio of onward connecting passenger to passengers just travelling to Amsterdam is quite high? They must think CWL has more promise just to trial it.

The 737 is being used at a few other UK airports as well. KLM are short of aircraft on the Cityhopper side.It does make a good trial of operation from the selection of airports.

 

[Jerry]

The 737 is being used at a few other UK airports as well. KLM are short of aircraft on the Cityhopper side.It does make a good trial of operation from the selection of airports.

The only other one I'm aware of is Norwich. The other airports regularly get 737s.

 

[superking]

KLM have taken the 2 E190 aircraft on lease from Stobart to help the aircraft shortage. I would have thought they would have learned their lesson with aircraft shortage as it happens every year. Perhaps its cheaper to lease in for a few weeks rather than increase the fleet. Im trying to under stand the time of the flight with less connections than the other rotations.If they had put the 737 on one of the other rotations then they would stand a good chance of aircraft filled. Does any one have any idea of the pax numbers on yesterdays flight.

 

[Jerry]

If they had put the 737 on one of the other rotations then they would stand a good chance of aircraft filled. Does any one have any idea of the pax numbers on yesterdays flight.

Departures wise it ties into the evening departures and gives a less tighter connection time as well as the evening departure doesn't arrive till about 19.30 this one arrives at 17.40.
Arrival wise as it departs at 14.25 it gives anyone arriving after the 9.30 departure a much shorter layover especially with the flights arriving from Europe and the US between 11 am and 1pm.

 

[superking]

Jerry do you know how many on the flight