Random Stuff!!

[TheLocalYokel]

If the Tories were serious about boosting Wales they'd invest in rail. They'd electrify to Swansea, build a Cardiff to Holyhead line through the heart of Wales and carry it on to Dublin with a tunnel or train ferry. They'd invest in Welsh ports and ferry links from Swansea to Cork and to France. And they'd give the WG more powers to invest in the Welsh economy.

Do you think a Westminster Labour Government would do all those things? Genuine question, not a rhetorical one.

I heard Boris Johnson's comment about the Brynglas Tunnels and M4 relief road at PM Question Time today and wasn't sure what he meant, unless he is going to make a large sum available to the WG for this purpose.

 

[Jerry]

I generally don't know why people in Wales think going back to direct rule would actually help Wales? In reality giving the WG more powers, like full fiscal control and APD and would actually make them more effective in being able to invest in the economy like a sovereign country can as London's priorities will always be South East England and Northern England.
I've been reading lately a book by Martin Johnes called Wales: England's Colony, I haven't finished it yet but there's definitely a theme throughout Welsh history that Wales and the Welsh are inferior to the English and it just makes me wonder if that continues today with many people's lack in confidence in Welsh self rule within the union.
I've been reading a lot about Welsh history lately and found it a fascinating insight into Wales in general and it's given me an appetite to go see some castles up north!

 

[Jerry]

Do you think a Westminster Labour Government would do all those things? Genuine question, not a rhetorical one.

I heard Boris Johnson's comment about the Brynglas Tunnels and M4 relief road at PM Question Time today and wasn't sure what he meant, unless he is going to make a large sum available to the WG for this purpose.

Maybe the Swansea electrification but I don't think they'd do the rest as I think Westminster Labour can be just as bad in how they view Wales as the Tories.
What they might do different is devolve more powers so maybe the Welsh government could do some of it.

From the way he spoke it seemed like UK government would build it themselves but roads are devolved so I don't see how they can without getting into a constitutional crisis.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Maybe the Swansea electrification but I don't think they'd do the rest as I think Westminster Labour can be just as bad in how they view Wales as the Tories.
What they might do different is devolve more powers so maybe the Welsh government could do some of it.

From the way he spoke it seemed like UK government would build it themselves but roads are devolved so I don't see how they can without getting into a constitutional crisis.

They wouldn't do any of it.

You saw what happened with Labour and their Northern and Welsh voters at the last election. They think they’ve been abandoned.

I had a lot of respect for Carwyn Jones and thought he was very rational as First Minister.

Mark Drakeford however has come across as a far left anti business individual. It is not what needed in Wales, we have a lot of untapped economic potential here. I believe Carwyn would probably have approved the relief road. I speak regularly with clients who express their frustration of M4 congestion around Newport and I do wonder how many jobs and growth is lost because of it.

 

[TOM100]

I really struggle to see the value the WG adds in comparison to the oodls of bureaucracy, quangos, task forces etc - I favour small government and less layers. The last big economic investment in Wales I consider really successful for jobs, homes, economy was Cardiff Bay and this was directed and established by Westminster. Maybe a more dynamic, less crony Welsh Government would change my mind. We are run by social workers most of whom (as far as I can establish) have ever held a commercial role in their working careers. Am sue all the budget announcements today from Westminster (quite ambitious) will probably not apply to devolved Wales but I just wait for the usual rhetoric “Westminster left Wales out etc” to come from the WG. But you can’t have it both ways - you’re either devolved or not !

 

[Jerry]

Mark Drakeford however has come across as a far left anti business individual. It is not what needed in Wales, we have a lot of untapped economic potential here. I believe Carwyn would probably have approved the relief road. I speak regularly with clients who express their frustration of M4 congestion around Newport and I do wonder how many jobs and growth is lost because of it.

I don't think that Drakeford is anti business but I do think he's cautious and I think he's correct with the M4 because I don't think spending £2 billion before possibility of a no deal Brexit and wiping out the Gwent levels would ease congestion especially as it would be likely that a toll would've been put on it to pay for the road and people would continue to use the old road just like they do with the M6 and M6 toll. The reality is that there are far too many cars on the road in the area because the public transport is so bad and hasn't had investment. I also think that the WG limted fiscal powers also contributed towards it as they have no way of raising bonds to pay for a project like that and can't just add it to the national debt like the UK government can.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Coronavirus: '£500m extra for Welsh Government' from chancellor

The Welsh Government will get half a billion pounds from the Treasury, the UK government says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Jerry]

Maybe a more dynamic, less crony Welsh Government would change my mind. We are run by social workers most of whom (as far as I can establish) have ever held a commercial role in their working careers.

Well if you look at the powers that Wales have they are more on the social side and I think the size of and the chamber compared to Westminster gives it a more local council feel. It does need more members along with more powers devolved to do a better job and make more of an impact on the economy especially.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Well if you look at the powers that Wales have they are more on the social side and I think the size of and the chamber compared to Westminster gives it a more local council feel. It does need more members along with more powers devolved to do a better job and make more of an impact on the economy especially.

More members?

Please, no.....

I agree about the point of more powers now, as if Westminster won’t look after us we should do it ourselves.

 

[Jerry]

More members?

Please, no.....

I agree about the point of more powers now, as if Westminster won’t look after us we should do it ourselves.

It will need more members especially if gets more powers. 80 would be a good number. Essentially 2 MS for each constituency. I've heard some say that 100 would be better but personally I think those extra 20 should be for some sort of second chamber like a Senate that can scrutinise both the WG and the Senedd itself.

 

[rollo]

The country is buried up to its neck with politicians from parish councillors to village/town/district/county and city councils. Then MPs, 800 plus unelected lords plus the Queen as state head and three devolved governments (not one for England)all with different constitutions and powers plus inumerable quangos, advisers etc.

Then there's the EU with two parliaments and commissioners along with its directives etc etc although in theory we are leaving that depending on what deal is or isn't cobbled together.


At times it seems to feels like there is more people telling us what to do than folk available to do it.

I feel better now not that it will change anything.

 

[TOM100]

The country is buried up to its neck with politicians from parish councillors to village/town/district/county and city councils. Then MPs, 800 plus unelected lords plus the Queen as state head and three devolved governments (not one for England)all with different constitutions and powers plus inumerable quangos, advisers etc.

Then there's the EU with two parliaments and commissioners along with its directives etc etc although in theory we are leaving that depending on what deal is or isn't cobbled together.


At times it seems to feels like there is more people telling us what to do than folk available to do it.

I feel better now not that it will change anything.

I couldn’t agree more ! Like you say the rant makes us feel better but nothing will change. How much does all this cost !?

 

[Jerry]

How much does all this cost !?

"The budget for the entire Welsh Assembly, including staff, Assembly Members, building maintenance and everything else, is a total of £58m."

"Take the House of Commons which, with its 650 members, cost the taxpayer £428.3m in 2018. The cost of MPs’ salaries and expenses alone came to £181.6m, according to the Institute for Government."

"There are over 800 members in the House of Lords, and each one costs taxpayers an average of £83,000 – that’s £67.9million in total."

No, our Senedd isn’t an expensive waste – compared to Westminster, it’s a massive bargain

Ifan Morgan Jones It’s almost inevitable that under any news article about the Welsh Assembly, at least one person will pop up to claim that it’s a waste of money and should be scrapped. This has been complemented by a recent Facebook campaign (based out of Bristol, according to the details...

nation.cymru

 

[TOM100]

I think you’ll find the cost of Welsh Government is considerably higher according to this FOI request. But it’s not just the direct operating costs that need to be taken into account but all the bureaucracy and dithering.

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-04/ATISN%2012998.pdf

 

[TOM100]

Plus 22 unitary authorities, plus the Welsh Office plus the parish councils, plus for years until divorce.bill is paid the EU plus plus plus !

 

[aviatorconcorde]

"The budget for the entire Welsh Assembly, including staff, Assembly Members, building maintenance and everything else, is a total of £58m."

"Take the House of Commons which, with its 650 members, cost the taxpayer £428.3m in 2018. The cost of MPs’ salaries and expenses alone came to £181.6m, according to the Institute for Government."

"There are over 800 members in the House of Lords, and each one costs taxpayers an average of £83,000 – that’s £67.9million in total."

No, our Senedd isn’t an expensive waste – compared to Westminster, it’s a massive bargain

Ifan Morgan Jones It’s almost inevitable that under any news article about the Welsh Assembly, at least one person will pop up to claim that it’s a waste of money and should be scrapped. This has been complemented by a recent Facebook campaign (based out of Bristol, according to the details...

nation.cymru

It shouldn’t be a case of Westminster v Welsh Parliament and who costs more, but the less politicians we have, the better.

We all know Westminster and especially the house of Lords is a Joke, but we need less of these people overall, I fear the Welsh Parliament will again become another gravy train like Westminster.

Ideally, the Welsh parliament should lead by example like it already is, with its much smaller budget and running costs.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Wales has 60 AMs (Wales population circa 3.2 million), Scotland 129 MSPs (Scotland population circa 5.5 million) and Westminster 650 MPs (UK population circa 68 million).

That works out at circa 53,000 constituents per elected representative for Wales, 42,000 for Scotland and 104,000 for Westminster.

Wales and Scotland also have Westminster representatives of course.

If Wales had 80 assembly members the number of constituents per member would reduce to 40,000 which is near Scotland's figure. However, both Wales and Scotland appear to be over-represented when it comes to the number of elected representatives per constituent compared with Westminster.

To bring the two devolved governments roughly in line with Westminster would see Scotland with 53 MSPs and Wales with 31 AMs.

In fact, there were moves to reduce the number of Westminster MPs from 650 to 600 but this government has gone back on the Cameron government's pledge.

 

[TOM100]

I think this forum has become just sycophantic to whatever CWL management and the WG do and am not sure my contributions add anything so I am out from here.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think this forum has become just sycophantic to whatever CWL management and the WG do and am not sure my contributions add anything so I am out from here.

I'm very sorry to hear that as your posts do form a valuable input to the forum in general and to the CWL/WG discussions in particular. A perusal of this thread, let alone others in the CWL forum, shows that you are not alone in questioning the value of the CWL management's work and the airport owners' contribution.

 

[Jerry]

It shouldn’t be a case of Westminster v Welsh Parliament and who costs more, but the less politicians we have, the better.

With the way society is the trend is that we'll end up with more. Not just in Wales but in England with regional devolution there with the elected mayor's and regional assemblies like the London one.

As for the House of Lords it should've been turned into an elected chamber years ago but no government commits to it for fear of having the opposition control it.

To bring the two devolved governments roughly in line with Westminster would see Scotland with 53 MSPs and Wales with 31 AMs.

I believe that the boundary changes will drop Wales to 32 MPs which many fear will give Wales less of a voice not that it has much now. The seats will be essentially transfered to England and its suspected be beneficial to the Tories.