Security, Immigration & Border Control

[marni1971]

so if management can't sort that out, who can?

I think they meant having management watching you won’t help.

 

[Silvercity]

My friend came back from LPA with Jet2 into Manchester on Thursday evening, not sure what terminal that is, but he was fine with his arrival, no hold ups. There is clearly major problems however with these regular complaints.

 

[KARFA]

I think they meant having management watching you won’t help.

when it comes to MAN that's certainly believable. it's clear the problems around culture have been going on for years and are systemic coming down from the top.

 

[Llandudno]

I think all of this points to the fact that the race to the bottom for costs has been a disaster. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

maybe it’s time to realise that the fares are probably too cheap to sustain a good service. When someone can pay as little as a tenner for an international flight, and that person will need typically 10-20 staff for their end to end journey (crew, security, ramp, supply chain) something has got to give. When the industry has suffered 2 years of next to no income, it extra staff and pay can’t just be switched on without adding to the debt pile, so the only solution may be to make fares higher and more sustainable. And put that money into the staffing rather than lining the companies profits.

Then maybe with the higher fares, things like hold bags become standard again and then less people will take everything plus the kitchen sink through security, because no doubt this doesn’t help.

I don’t blame the staff here. They are just people like you and me doing as they are told as part of a job. I don’t care if people think MAN staff are surly or rude, if I had to work in that environment, I’d find it hard to keep my cool. I feel sorry for those staff that are trying to do the right thing and the staff trying to help.

 

[KARFA]

it is interesting you mention salary. MAN are advertising at £12 ph for those positions. I know NCL pays starting rates of £10ph, yet they have good retention of staff and are only currently recruiting for a few extra summer season positions atm, whereas MAN are looking for permanent positions.

whilst some of what you say may be true, i am afraid the problems at MAN for security are not fundamentally about pay.

unfortunately i think you are right tho, the situation there has degenerated to such an extent and the working environment is so bad, that i imagine many people are put off applying and would rather look for jobs in less stressful environments. a vicious cycle for MAN unfortunately.

 

[Llandudno]

it is interesting you mention salary. MAN are advertising at £12 ph for those positions. I know NCL pays starting rates of £10ph, yet they have good retention of staff and are only currently recruiting for a few extra summer season positions atm, whereas MAN are looking for permanent positions.

whilst some of what you say may be true, i am afraid the problems at MAN for security are not fundamentally about pay.

I feel your looking at that too simply. The cost of living is higher in the Manchester area and there is a lot more competition for jobs in the north west too. Would you work for £12 an hour at Amazon where you could almost choose your own shifts and start immediately, or at the airport where you have to get up at 2am, go through the hassle of referencing and getting an airside pass as well as regular testing where the pass rate is 90% above.

so I know you’ll probably think I’m arguing for the sake of arguing, but pay is most certainly an issue, and given how motivated people are by money, I’d say it’s a significant issue.

 

[marni1971]

it is interesting you mention salary. MAN are advertising at £12 ph for those positions. I know NCL pays starting rates of £10ph, yet they have good retention of staff and are only currently recruiting for a few extra summer season positions atm, whereas MAN are looking for permanent positions.

whilst some of what you say may be true, i am afraid the problems at MAN for security are not fundamentally about pay.

unfortunately i think you are right tho, the situation there has degenerated to such an extent and the working environment is so bad, that i imagine many people are put off applying and would rather look for jobs in less stressful environments. a vicious cycle for MAN unfortunately.

Pay is a start, conditions and working environment are another. I’m sure current people working there know more but I know two security staff (one current, one recently ex) and an ex ramp handler. How things have got worse over the years is shocking. It seems the job positions on offer have a deserved reputation.

 

[KARFA]

I feel your looking at that too simply. The cost of living is higher in the Manchester area and there is a lot more competition for jobs in the north west too. Would you work for £12 an hour at Amazon where you could almost choose your own shifts and start immediately, or at the airport where you have to get up at 2am, go through the hassle of referencing and getting an airside pass as well as regular testing where the pass rate is 90% above.

so I know you’ll probably think I’m arguing for the sake of arguing, but pay is most certainly an issue, and given how motivated people are by money, I’d say it’s a significant issue.

i wouldn't work in that environment for £20ph - and i suspect this is exactly what others are thinking, hence why they have been struggling to fill the positions for months now.

 

[marni1971]

Interesting (anonymous) interviews in the MEN rag today. Not good, but honest.

 

[Land23R]

My friend came back from LPA with Jet2 into Manchester on Thursday evening, not sure what terminal that is, but he was fine with his arrival, no hold ups. There is clearly major problems however with these regular complaints.

Not sure whether it's relevant in this particular case, but Jet2 do their own handling. That doesn't mean there couldn't be delays at Border Control, but I do wonder if Jet2 are experiencing the problem of staff shortages and unrest to the same extent as 3rd party agents. Management mention new staff starting every day but don't refer to the numbers leaving or off sick.

It's true that other airports are having, or have had, delay issues. LHR, DUB, LBA have been mentioned in the media and one poster stated BHX has had problems the last few weeks. However, the evidence seems to be mounting that MAN is affected more frequently and worse than others. Late yesterday evening, I checked LHR departures and while a few flights were an hour late, MAN on the depatures I checked had at least two - 1 easyjet and 1 ryanair - that were over 4 hours late. Several others had a 2 hour delay. I appreciate part of the delay could have happened elsewhere down the line but with turn rounds of 30 minutes in many cases, it's hardly surprising delays build up during the day, especially if there are no staff to unload bags when the a/c arrives at MAN.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Having had the displeasure of experiencing similar inefficiencies working at another airport, I can tell you with certainty that having airport management in situ in these conditions doesn't help the situation, it makes it very much worse. My personal experience is unrepeatable on a public forum. Working in conditions that are more akin to a bar brawl will see staff leaving in their droves.

In what way does it make things worse?

 

[Llandudno]

i wouldn't work in that environment for £20ph - and i suspect this is exactly what others are thinking, hence why they have been struggling to fill the positions for months now.

But what do you think has caused a situation unique to Manchester?
Early starts and late finishes are not unique to Manchester, that’s just what an airport job involves. Last minute changes to schedules occur in many industries, particularly retail and healthcare as 2 examples, so again, is not unique to Manchester or even travel.
Performance management in jobs is not unique, and long hours are not unique. Toxic management certainly isn’t unique to Manchester and I can say I’ve worked for some awful management.

Security wise, the NXET exam for security is marked to the same standard across the U.K., the CAA tests to the same standard and the ‘reprimand’ for missing items is a similar situation across the U.K.

so begs the question, what is unique to Manchester because on the face of it, working conditions are pretty big standard across the U.K.

 

[Aviador]

But what do you think has caused a situation unique to Manchester?
Early starts and late finishes are not unique to Manchester, that’s just what an airport job involves. Last minute changes to schedules occur in many industries, particularly retail and healthcare as 2 examples, so again, is not unique to Manchester or even travel.
Performance management in jobs is not unique, and long hours are not unique. Toxic management certainly isn’t unique to Manchester and I can say I’ve worked for some awful management.

Security wise, the NXET exam for security is marked to the same standard across the U.K., the CAA tests to the same standard and the ‘reprimand’ for missing items is a similar situation across the U.K.

so begs the question, what is unique to Manchester because on the face of it, working conditions are pretty big standard across the U.K.

The reprimand for missing things is the same across the UK.

Unlike other jobs, this isn't something you can approach the boss and request moving the deadline. You're stuck with X number of passengers coming through the CSZ come what may.

@Llandudno is correct as there are a number of airports experiencing long security queues with varying degree of severity. Manchester has got to be the worst I have seen over recent weeks though.

 

[Llandudno]

I think one things Manchester has had to deal with is that it has been much more publicised than other issues.

BA have had to cancel hundreds of flights in the past few days, Edinburgh and Liverpool have warned of significant delays. Leeds/Bradford has had issues and Gatwick is also having similar issues in security the same as Manchester. Emirates didn’t have a single flight leave the U.K. on time yesterday evening, the Ryanair Newcastle base apparently didn’t have the best of starts, swissport are massively understaffed, and the list could go on

But it’s Manchester getting the brunt of the publicity. Whether it’s poor reputation previously is causing it to be scrutinised a lot more, I don’t know, but Manchester is certainly not alone in the issues. Once again, I’m not saying that means the issues should be ignored, but people really do enjoy jumping on a bandwagon when it starts.

it seems travel in general at the moment is just a bit, naff. And patience is needed unfortunately as this isn’t going to be fixed overnight, it’s just not possible.

 

[KARFA]

If we accept your theory that it's just as bad everywhere else, but MAN is just being picked on by everyone and by the media, why do you think that is?

 

[Llandudno]

If we accept your theory that it's just as bad everywhere else, but MAN is just being picked on by everyone and by the media, why do you think that is?

I gave a theory in the post.

 

[KARFA]

Ah ok, poor reputation previously. Thanks.

 

[Land23R]

There's no doubt there are problems aplenty at other airports. The issues of rehiring, hiring and retaining staff will be a common factor in general but may vary in degree.

In the MACC minutes that Scottie provides, as I recall there are various charts about performance compared to targets by month. I imagine that for any one day, MAN will have data such as the average queue time in security and the longest wait in a specific period within that day. Likewise, I would have thought, the same data for times to unload bags off arriving flights and for Border Control.

I doubt we shall ever know but it might be interesting to see how MAN's data compares with equivalent data at other major UK airports - LHR, LGW, STN; probably LTN, BHX & EDI as well. It's less meaningful probably for smaller airports as LBA for example may consider 1 hour to get though security as awful, whereas at busy times at MAN it might raise an eyebrow but is less significant compared to some of the 3 hour delays alleged. (I think the target was no passenger waiting more than 15 minutes but could be wrong). However, simply being aware of poor data doesn't solve the problems unfortunately, but it must hit home IF management know their performance is worse than competitors - to be clear, if that is the case.

To points made by others, I do agree that MAN's reputation - among the public and I suspect within the work force, - had already deteriorated prior to covid.

 

[Nethercote2019]

I see airlines are asking pax to get to airports early & allow upto 3 hours to check in and thru security, but even this may not be long enough…… plus some check ins only open 2 hours before departure.
A friend of mine had a message from airline to get to airport 3 hours before departure - they were flying to EDI In future will drive or catch train, airport & or airlines are not always helping themselves

 

[Scottie Dog]

I see airlines are asking pax to get to airports early & allow upto 3 hours to check in and thru security, but even this may not be long enough…… plus some check ins only open 2 hours before departure.
A friend of mine had a message from airline to get to airport 3 hours before departure - they were flying to EDI In future will drive or catch train, airport & or airlines are not always helping themselves

Silly question, but if they're flyng to EDI then they obviously are not departing from Manchester as there is no direct MAN/EDI service at present. Can I assume that you are referring to airports other than Manchester?