Infrastructure, Construction & Developments

[Jon Dempsey]

I disembarked from the top deck of EK39 yesterday.
Great until you have to walk down a narrow set of stairs and join pax disembarking from the lower deck and then walk through a single door.

Who designed this mess?

 

[Birmingham Aviation]

So you know I mentioned about if I was in charge of bhx I would make the Arrivals area expansive.With the potential of more frequencies of airlines and potentially more new airlines coming to bhx .Has the airport management team ever suggested that to themselves or are they satisfied with that?

 

[Kevin Farnell]

So you know I mentioned about if I was in charge of bhx I would make the Arrivals area expansive.With the potential of more frequencies of airlines and potentially more new airlines coming to bhx .Has the airport management team ever suggested that to themselves or are they satisfied with that?

The airport's Management teams primary objective, is to get the best return on investment for their stakeholders. You don't get that from simply throwing money around. Each decision that the management make, will be carefully considered as to whether it brings both enhancements to the airport and dividends to the investors. If the management were to simply throw money around on projects that don't add value, then the investors would take their money and invest elsewhere.

 

[Aviador]

It's been well over a decade since I last worked at an airport and even then I know the cost of purchasing an airbridge was astronomical. A simple metal framed, glass-sided telescopic airbridge would cost in the region of around £750,000. The hydrolic moving version cost in the region of £1m each and that's before you even consider the maintenance of these kits.

 

[Timberwolf]

The airport's Management teams primary objective, is to get the best return on investment for their stakeholders. You don't get that from simply throwing money around. Each decision that the management make, will be carefully considered as to whether it brings both enhancements to the airport and dividends to the investors. If the management were to simply throw money around on projects that don't add value, then the investors would take their money and invest elsewhere.

It should also be mentioned surely that it depends how much investment money the airport now has at its disposal for each project.

Let's not forget that the airport mastetplan 2018 stated they were looking at £500 million to be invested up till mid 2030s.A figure they were still stating well into 2023.

As has been mentioned numerous times that in late 2023, that figure has now been slashed down to £300 million, up to the mid 2030s.

So the airport now has considerably less money available from investors which will have an impact on the initial planned projects into the mid 2030s .

 

[nwoody2001]

I don't think we can say the budgets have been slashed or that there is less money to invest based on the information we have, i don't think we will ever know. However, what we do know is that a) a pandemic has happened b) priorities have changes and c) projects and outputs are now completely different.

In the 2018 masterplans, it obviously didn't consider:

- how much money it must have cost to to keep the airport open during covid
- the need to deliver govt mandated upgrades to security
- the impacts of having started a lounge extension to be put on hold to respond to the demands of the above

When you consider the Master 2018 was a 15 year £500m plan to reach 18m by 2033, and now they are talking about this "current transformation plan" being a 10 year £300m plan to reach 18m by 2033, can we say budgets have been slashed? BHX might still spend £500m over 15 years.... who knows?!

 

[Timberwolf]

I don't think we can say the budgets have been slashed or that there is less money to invest based on the information we have, i don't think we will ever know. However, what we do know is that a) a pandemic has happened b) priorities have changes and c) projects and outputs are now completely different.

In the 2018 masterplans, it obviously didn't consider:

- how much money it must have cost to to keep the airport open during covid
- the need to deliver govt mandated upgrades to security
- the impacts of having started a lounge extension to be put on hold to respond to the demands of the above

When you consider the Master 2018 was a 15 year £500m plan to reach 18m by 2033, and now they are talking about this "current transformation plan" being a 10 year £300m plan to reach 18m by 2033, can we say budgets have been slashed? BHX might still spend £500m over 15 years.... who knows?!

Sorry disagree with some of this.

In summer 2023 the airport gave a presentation to a very large construction company that my eldest daughter Is a project manager on, she was present.

The video presentation was STILL the 2018 plan for £500 million including the lounge extension.

This was well after the airport had already started the new security facility work.So ends the argument that they changed the amount as the security facility was not known about.

Just weeks later the airport release new update which fails to mention the lounge extension and the amount to be spent over the same time period was now massively reduced.

Something must have happened between my daughters presentation and the new airport announcement.

Is it a huge coincidence that during those weeks it's announced one of the airport part shareholders Birmingham City Council had gone bust and that Coventry Council another part shareholder was close to going bust..

Whatever the reason it is what it is and we just have to get on with it.

 

[nwoody2001]

What's do you expect them to do, continue doing a running total year on year? I'm mean its pretty simple based on the numbers we've seen...

Masterplan 2018 was a 15 year £500m strategy.... circa £33m a year
The latest update "suggests" a 10 year £300m strategy... circa £30m a year

Both plans conclude in 2033 with a target of 18m pax.

If there has been a cut in investment, its been a 10% a year cut at best on the information we've heard from the the news released... not the 40% cut you're referring to....

And BCC

Sorry disagree with some of this.

In summer 2023 the airport gave a presentation to a very large construction company that my eldest daughter Is a project manager on, she was present.

The video presentation was STILL the 2018 plan for £500 million including the lounge extension.

Of course they showed the 2018 masterplan. Masterplans are long and complex documents which takes years to update let alone produce new ones. Until a new/updated masterplan is formally released and consulted on, the 2018 masterplan is still the current masterplan, regardless of how outdated and redundant it maybe.

Is it a huge coincidence that during those weeks it's announced one of the airport part shareholders Birmingham City Council had gone bust and that Coventry Council another part shareholder was close to going bust..

Whatever the reason it is what it is and we just have to get on with it.

Yes a total coincidence that BCC declared bankruptcy 5 years into BHX's 15 year masterplan. BCC owns circa 18% of the airport, there is of course going to be uncertainty with regard to their role and investment moving forward. But do you think the airport would have been able update to undertake a restructuring of hundreds of millions of £££ of investment and determine the impacts on the masterplan in a matter of weeks!? Really? And in the event you are correct, i cant see how a stakeholder of 18% of the airport could result in a 40% drop in investment.

I know you and some others think the airport is falling apart and somewhat of a failure, but personally from my perspective, the fact that the airport continues to invest in itself, seems pretty capable in attracting new business and seems confident it is capable of achieving its 2018 despite of last few years of chaos its been through is nothing short of a miracle and testament to the management of the airport. Would i like more money to be invested - of course! But im certainly not going to sniff at the significant investment we already have!

 

[Deleted member 8277]

Had a look at the progress of the new security hall last night, the scanners/tables etc seem to delivered and the lines starting to take shape. One thing I did notice is the whole area doesn't look that big so i'm not holding my breath for peak queues back to the lift and beyond, I can imagine pax going up and down in the new lifts a few times before they can exit LOL.
If you fancy a look you can see through 2 windowed doors to the right as you come off the rail link.

 

[nwoody2001]

Had a look at the progress of the new security hall last night, the scanners/tables etc seem to delivered and the lines starting to take shape. One thing I did notice is the whole area doesn't look that big so i'm not holding my breath for peak queues back to the lift and beyond, I can imagine pax going up and down in the new lifts a few times before they can exit LOL.
If you fancy a look you can see through 2 windowed doors to the right as you come off the rail link.

well with people not needing to take any liquids or electronics out of their bags, i think this hope is that people pass through a lot quicker meaning less need for big areas for queuing?

 

[IanFarquharson]

well with people not needing to take any liquids or electronics out of their bags, i think this hope is that people pass through a lot quicker meaning less need for big areas for queuing?

Agreed - the process will be a lot quicker so less floor space needed allowing the existing screening area to be turned into new terminal space and saving £200m not building the planned extension

 

[tompo]

The airport's Management teams primary objective, is to get the best return on investment for their stakeholders. You don't get that from simply throwing money around. Each decision that the management make, will be carefully considered as to whether it brings both enhancements to the airport and dividends to the investors. If the management were to simply throw money around on projects that don't add value, then the investors would take their money and invest elsewhere.

Agreed in principle: however World travellers deserve decent facilities and it is not acceptable to arrive (after a 24 hr journey) at a poorly designed and, even worse, a poorly maintained facility. I have commented previously how dowdy and awkward the arrival presentation process appears at BHX in comparison to other Regional airports in Europe and the rest of the World. As an example, this week I arrived at Nadi ( Fiji) - a developing country with a total population less than one million. Arrival at a light-filled, pristine facility put BHX to shame. If some people do not have expectations so be it, however regular travellers have the luxury to vote with their feet and the airlines know it. As an aside, I had extensive management responsibilities at BHX from 1983 to 1989 and am fully aware of the financial implications of running airports, particularly functional aesthetics.

 

[Paulsstrange]

Agreed in principle: however World travellers deserve decent facilities and it is not acceptable to arrive (after a 24 hr journey) at a poorly designed and, even worse, a poorly maintained facility. I have commented previously how dowdy and awkward the arrival presentation process appears at BHX in comparison to other Regional airports in Europe and the rest of the World. As an example, this week I arrived at Nadi ( Fiji) - a developing country with a total population less than one million. Arrival at a light-filled, pristine facility put BHX to shame. If some people do not have expectations so be it, however regular travellers have the luxury to vote with their feet and the airlines know it. As an aside, I had extensive management responsibilities at BHX from 1983 to 1989 and am fully aware of the financial implications of running airports, particularly functional aesthetics.

Brilliant Post

 

[Aviador]

well with people not needing to take any liquids or electronics out of their bags, i think this hope is that people pass through a lot quicker meaning less need for big areas for queuing?

I say good luck with that. Have you ever seen an x-ray image of a bag full of all the shite people put in their hand luggage. Opaque and its coming off!

Agreed in principle: however World travellers deserve decent facilities and it is not acceptable to arrive (after a 24 hr journey) at a poorly designed and, even worse, a poorly maintained facility. I have commented previously how dowdy and awkward the arrival presentation process appears at BHX in comparison to other Regional airports in Europe and the rest of the World. As an example, this week I arrived at Nadi ( Fiji) - a developing country with a total population less than one million. Arrival at a light-filled, pristine facility put BHX to shame. If some people do not have expectations so be it, however regular travellers have the luxury to vote with their feet and the airlines know it. As an aside, I had extensive management responsibilities at BHX from 1983 to 1989 and am fully aware of the financial implications of running airports, particularly functional aesthetics.

I agree but sadly it's a UK phenomenon. All UK airports are generally very poor. Airports here aren't developed with foresight, just add a bit here and there and make do. Where there's a genuine effort to make change it is usually met by council or government red tape and hoops to jump through. We need a fundamental change in these processes so airports can be modernised properly.

 

[Timberwolf]

Noted this week that now the 20s remotes have been reconfigured and reopened, that stands 1-7 join stand 8C,L,R as being fenced off.

This will be the final of the recent 3 phases to realign southern apron stands for Jet 2.

Should result in 13 stands around Eurohub all capable of taking A321s.

So with the six on the 20s, gives 19 A321 capable stands.A good improvement, apart for the loss of stand 8C for any long haul sized planes .

 

[IanFarquharson]

Noted this week that now the 20s remotes have been reconfigured and reopened, that stands 1-7 join stand 8C,L,R as being fenced off.

This will be the final of the recent 3 phases to realign southern apron stands for Jet 2.

Should result in 13 stands around Eurohub all capable of taking A321s.

So with the six on the 20s, gives 19 A321 capable stands.A good improvement, apart for the loss of stand 8C for any long haul sized planes .

£10m well spent

 

[Nethercote2019]

£10m well spent

£10m !! for no extra concrete just some paint ?

 

[Ray Finkle]

£10m !! for no extra concrete just some paint ?

Have you been to B&Q lately? After redecorating our bedroom recently I can well believe it

 

[nwoody2001]

£10m !! for no extra concrete just some paint ?

If only it was that simple lol

 

[Timberwolf]

If only it was that simple lol

As you probably know, £10 million doesn't get you a lot these days in terms of airport construction projects !