Security, Immigration & Border Control

[Nibbles]

Weird double post - sorry!

 

[TM3]

Ray, I was just reading the same article and looking at those exact 2 ridiculous quotes from the airport.

"..a picture of a queue is subjective.."

From the Collins Dictionary; "Something that is subjective is based on personal opinions and feelings rather than on facts."

Also seem to be saying now long queues are what you should expect on a Friday.

 

[Nibbles]

was that 1 hour just for security, or does that include waiting at check in as well?

No, 1 hour from arrival to completing security. It included check-in.

I notice BHX are very quiet about the carnage yesterday afternoon. Was the incident at north security caused by queuing passenger frustration? The picture tells a thousand words and X will show some more of the aftermath passengers had to endure.

Lots of passengers missed flights yesterday afternoon and many flights delayed due to the aftermath. I bet the airlines are fuming and will demand answers from the airport.

About the access to departures by the lifts.
There is only one way in and one way of each lift so physically impossible to have doors at both ends. It doesn't matter if there were 10 lifts or 10 escalator's or available stairs for pax to use from the ground floor to security, the fact of the matter is when its busy the queue out of security goes back to the lifts upstairs so any method of travel upstairs there is physically nowhere to go and passengers will be held until more room becomes available.

Anyway according to some we don't really have a problem because its only down to the ongoing building work that BHX have said is completed.


As a matter of interest how many lanes are there in the new security compared to the old one? and do you think it will easily handle 18m pax going forward.

The security hall was great. Cant remember if there were 7 or 8 scanners, but there was a LOT more space that the previous hall, particularly airside of the scanners. The biggest queue was for the rescan on our lane, with 6 or 7 bags waiting. Im going to guess that most of them were due to liquids >100ml being present.

There are several walls between the e-gates and the scanners which appear temporary and a lack of space downstairs due to obvious ongoing works (complete with green mesh screens and the like), which makes the routing of passengers complicated. Also, I couldnt see any sign of the lifts at the far end of the terminal. My feel is that, once all the work (on security) is complete in a few months time (i.e. with all 6 lifts) the capacity to get people between floors will be much improved. I would be surprised if 'normal' operation would have anything more than a small queue to get into the lifts on the ground floor though, of course, during busy periods the queue might be longer. Ultimately, all the security area needs to be able to cope with is the flow of passengers equivalent to full lifts arriving every 15 seconds or so, i.e. 50 people, hence 200 per minute. I observed that there were a variety of practices employed by those trying to manage the queues e.g. 'stopping' the e-gates to allow the queue inside to dissipate, which mess up the whole flow. If anyone has ever done any traffic modelling, they'll know how easy it is to screw up a nice streamlined flow with a deceptively small change.

Note, at that time on Monday there were at least 2 scanners not being used. I notice on the BHX vacancies website there is a perpetual security officer advert suggesting that recruitment is ongoing. Of course, seamless operation of security (i.e. max flow) relies on having every scanner in operation. That said, my security ahead of my return flight (from Milan) only had about 6 scanners total and seemed to manage just fine.

Honestly I don't think 1 hour to get through security is a "good" experience, in fact compared to most airports it's poor. I really hope that the airport aspires to better than this.

It's one thing to find fault when the setup is old and needs replacing to the situation when you have been able to build a new clean sheet experience. It the build was really "state of the art" as we keep being told the airport would have really got a handle on where time is wasted in the old process, where as it seems like they think it's all about liquids and laptops.

Perhaps not; we'd all like to be through in less. But it wasnt a disaster.

It probably is state of the art - or at least will be WHEN IT IS FINISHED. Hopefully. We'll find out soon. But not yet...!

I flew from Schiphol at evening rush hour recently. It took 15 minutes to go from bag-drop at the busy KLM desks to the restaurants above duty free.

A friend flew to Frankfurt this morning. This is the carnage. It took 1hour 20 minutes from outside to duty free - longer than his flight!

But Schiphol isnt a building site - BHX is. Note also that last time i flew to Frankfurt about 3 years ago, I had to change terminals and stood in a short security queue to get to my onward flight, no longer than 50m, that took 90 minutes. I dont recall heaps of social media posts about that.

More generally, as far as i know, and ever recall seeing, the ONLY deadline was the 1st June date for introduction of the new scanners and removal of the need to have to use little plastic bags for a small amount of liquids. That date was achieved. I may be wrong, but there was never any date for completion of the actual works - and tbh when you consider there is a duty free area to move works will be going on for a while yet. The CEO said something a few days ago about 6 weeks to finish this part of construction, which would be the point, i think, when the works on security - and what is causing the bulk of the queuing problems - will be complete.

Oh, final point. I think having no route other than the lift to get to the air rail link specifically is a bit unfortunate. That may be because it wont be in that area in the future. We shall see.

'Queues can be seen daily at peak times, which is natural for any airport. A picture of a queue is subjective, and in the moment, at that time.

No apologies. No reasons given. No assurances about the future.

I agree that there could be a better management of anger on social media including use of 'bear with us, we are trying our best, and it will improve when we finish' type messages - though many will know that its better not to poke the bear on social media. But i also agree with the general statement - as above it took me 1 hour from getting to the airport to pass through security; by the time i got to security there was no longer any queue, and my father in law, who has been through 5 times in the last month, has only ever queued downstairs once (on Monday), all other times getting through in less than 15 minutes. If i were BHX, i'd install a webcam that shows the full queue at all times to demonstrate that these are exceptional periods only.

P.S. i fly from EMA (not by choice) in a couple of weeks time at peak time - i'll let you know how that queue goes.

 

[TM3]

Isn't it just the case that there are too many flights scheduled early in the morning, and the queue dissipates as the day continues.

 

[Nibbles]

Well yes. Though the early morning flights means you can maximise trips a day to the e.g. Mediterranean, so 6am departures will always be popular to the airlines e.g. 6am departure, land at AGP 8am, 1hr turnaround, depart 9am, back in BHX 11am, same again in the afternoon.

If you restricted those early morning departures you'd effectively mean that some aircraft only have time to do one trip or risk Jet2 flight can only do one trip a day, otherwise they'll be arriving back at tricky times (which may well have further runway availability or noise restrictions). An aircraft is only earning money when its in the air, after all.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Isn't it just the case that there are too many flights scheduled early in the morning, and the queue dissipates as the day continues.

It never used to be an issue though, aside from the odd occasion.

I've regularly departed early morning in the main school holidays and rarely queued beyond 15-20 minutes

Cant remember if there were 7 or 8 scanners, but there was a LOT more space that the previous hall, particularly airside of the scanners. The biggest queue was for the rescan on our lane, with 6 or 7 bags waiting. Im going to guess that most of them were due to liquids >100ml being present.

Note, at that time on Monday there were at least 2 scanners not being used. I notice on the BHX vacancies website there is a perpetual security officer advert suggesting that recruitment is ongoing. Of course, seamless operation of security (i.e. max flow) relies on having every scanner in operation. That said, my security ahead of my return flight (from Milan) only had about 6 scanners total and seemed to manage just fine.

I've not seen the new area yet so I'm probably not best qualified to comment but reading between the lines, on here and on social media, it seems as if the full compliment of scanners are not yet up and running, be that training, lack of staff, or whatever?

If it is something that simple then why aren't the airport telling us and giving reassurances that things will be alright in the end? After the lockdowns things were pretty crazy but we were constantly informed that recruitment and training was being done as quickly as could be. What is different this time?

I think the concern is that this is the way it is going to be from now on, if it isn't then tell us

 

[Nibbles]

Im through there again on Wednesday, so will tell you. The lanes/scanners are all there, but its not just lanes and scanners that you need for security (i.e. its people too). But from what i could see when i was there, the problem wasnt really getting people through security, it was getting people to security with the resulting waves of arrivals from the lift causing more problems that it solved. And that is for many reasons including, as above, a mix of people arriving far too late and expecting to jump the queue and people arriving far too early and increasing the size of the queue unnecessarily.

It would of course be helpful if capacity in security was operating at full pelt all the time so the queues never get chance to build up - though they wont want to be paying people to sit around for long periods when they arent necessary. The joys of operational management, hey...

 

[Aviador]

the airport was naturally busy as you would expect for a Friday getaway

Must be natural to queue outside in all weather then? Rain is in the forecast for the next few days so there's going to be some unhappy punters at BHX. #BHXfiasco #BHXsecurity

 

[Ray Finkle]

Must be natural to queue outside in all weather then? Rain is in the forecast for the next few days so there's going to be some unhappy punters at BHX. #BHXfiasco #BHXsecurity

The last time I queued outside was at a Greek Island airport back in the 90's

Im through there again on Wednesday, so will tell you. The lanes/scanners are all there, but its not just lanes and scanners that you need for security (i.e. its people too). But from what i could see when i was there, the problem wasnt really getting people through security, it was getting people to security with the resulting waves of arrivals from the lift causing more problems that it solved. And that is for many reasons including, as above, a mix of people arriving far too late and expecting to jump the queue and people arriving far too early and increasing the size of the queue unnecessarily.

It would of course be helpful if capacity in security was operating at full pelt all the time so the queues never get chance to build up - though they wont want to be paying people to sit around for long periods when they arent necessary. The joys of operational management, hey...

Many thanks for the reply. It's nice to get an insight from someone who has actually been through in the last few weeks

I must admit that I'm at a loss when I try to think of any other major transport hub that relies purely on lifts to transport folk between floors. We shall see where we are in six weeks.

 

[Aviador]

Spoke too soon, things are going to get .....much worse now!

Ministers have ordered an astonishing emergency U-turn on airport security following concerns about new equipment that allows passengers to keep liquids in their hand luggage.

Airports with the new scanners have been ordered to reimpose old rules from midnight on Saturday, meaning that travellers will be limited to carrying 100ml containers.

Independent

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there all, so what is causing all these issues at Birmingham airport now....andyc

 

[Aviador]

Hi there all, so what is causing all these issues at Birmingham airport now....andyc

Although not necessarily related:

While security has never been compromised, a number of airports using the new scanners have experienced long queues due to a higher-than-expected rejection rate, as security officers carry out hand searches. Sources have told The Independent that harmless liquids such as sunscreen have been misidentified as high threat subtances.

If this is correct, the government mandated that airports must use these new scanners to speed security up so this is a major **ck up if they're having to backtrack.

 

[richard winterbourn]

I am very confused by a main item of news overnight which states that carry-on liquid rules have been cancelled at SIX airports. No mention of Birmingham....

Is Birmingham not included?

If it is included, BBC should be called to account over what would be gross misrepresenting of the facts.

 

[Aviador]

I am very confused by a main item of news overnight which states that carry-on liquid rules have been cancelled at SIX airports. No mention of Birmingham....

Is Birmingham not included?

If it is included, BBC should be called to account over what would be gross misrepresenting of the facts.

I don't necessarily think it is factually incorrect. Had BHX already relaxed the liquid rules prior to yesterday's announcement? My understanding is although BHX had the equipment, it wasn't fully compliant and so it wasn't regarded as requiring a withdrawal of some of the rules.

 

[Nibbles]

I am very confused by a main item of news overnight which states that carry-on liquid rules have been cancelled at SIX airports. No mention of Birmingham....

Is Birmingham not included?

If it is included, BBC should be called to account over what would be gross misrepresenting of the facts.

Birmingham didn't get to the unrestricted liquids rule, awaiting regulatory approval. You could have up to 100ml containers, but I think an unlimited amount, i.e. without the need for a small plastic bag. That is, I think, still the case.

This u-turn appears to be that the allowance for greater than 100ml containers - e.g. taking a large bottle of shampoo - is no longer allowed - reverting back to what Birmingham currently has.

Note also that LHR etc. are still stuck with the old system of small bottles in a small plastic bag.

 

[JF57]

Must be natural to queue outside in all weather then? Rain is in the forecast for the next few days so there's going to be some unhappy punters at BHX. #BHXfiasco #BHXsecurity

There was talk of cover being erected outside on Friday by the same person who promised it would all be fine in 6 weeks last Monday so now nearly 5 weeks.

 

[MB1]

BBC News - Passengers break liquids rule daily - airport boss

Birmingham Airport: Customers breaking liquid rule cause queues

Birmingham Airport claims one non-compliant bag can add 20 minutes to each passenger's wait time.

www.bbc.com

So the first time Nick Barton addresses the press properly on this issue and he blames the passengers!

Of course, having to remove non-compliant liquids from bags will slow down security queues. But that's been the case for years, new or old security equipment and facilities.

Unbelievable!

 

[TM3]

@MB1, I can't find the reference, is this the article?

Save this list to keep your queue down at Birmingham Airport this summer

The airport has given travellers a checklist of things to remember after passengers faced after another week of early-morning queues

www.birminghammail.co.uk

"The airport said issues caused by passengers carrying larger amounts were causing an extra 20-minute delay per traveller."

 

[G-MANS]

The absuridty of forcing people off the monorail to go down in the lift and queue 3 hours to get up in it again... heads need to roll

 

[spentaylor]

Birmingham didn't get to the unrestricted liquids rule, awaiting regulatory approval. You could have up to 100ml containers, but I think an unlimited amount, i.e. without the need for a small plastic bag. That is, I think, still the case.

This u-turn appears to be that the allowance for greater than 100ml containers - e.g. taking a large bottle of shampoo - is no longer allowed - reverting back to what Birmingham currently has.

Note also that LHR etc. are still stuck with the old system of small bottles in a small plastic bag.

Been through LHR T5 and T3 multiple times (20+) in the last few months and no bottles in bags. Newcastle and T3 at MAN the same although at MAN they did seem to be searching a higher proportion of bags which caused longer wait times. Although it's my local and used to be my go to, I do worry Nick Barton is looking to turn BHX into Luton 2.0 - big passenger numbers but a miserable experience