Security, Immigration & Border Control

[alfalpha]

Annicdotal only but my daughter passed through on Thursday afternoon this week.
Thirty minutes for Tui bag drop and one hour thirty for security.
Not good.

 

[TM3]

The average queue time at MAN, including T3 has been less than 15mins for 98% of passengers all year. Aside from T3 (and T1) being older infrastructure, the experience has improved massively.

But I suppose if (falsely) knocking other airports to cover your own airports failings is what’s helping you sleep at night, who am I to stop you? And before anyone kicks off at mentioning MAN on a BHX forum, the quote above is the indication of ‘who started it’, that way, you can’t argue when things are in black and white

Not saying there aren't problems at BHX but are you comparing apples with apples here?

If the average is 22mins at the busiest months through BHX isn't this going to be lower over the course of whole the year? Maybe even less than 15 minutes.

Also what is the average at MAN T3 when you include the other 2% that wait longer times?

Some might say, in any event there is not a lot of difference between a 15 minute wait and a 22 minute one but by way of comparison I would also say there are some airports around the world where you can use the scanners almost straight away, be those at the entrance to the terminal or at the gate itself.

 

[richard winterbourn]

Just for Llandudno, what are you about?

When I arrive at Manchester Airport, it takes me at least 20 minutes before I even get to security - and I am an old man of 79 with two knee replacements.

There are stairs, lifts and, remember, the travelators have not worked for years...

So I am basing my experience on it taking very much longer to get through Manchester than Birmingham. And, as such, that is my advice to people considering where they fly from. And remember I am talking about Terminal 3.

So cut out this carping about Birmingham and Manchester, you devalue your own argument by trying to work up some hyperbole between the two cities.

And remember, I am writing for those people who support the Birmingham thread.

 

[MB1]

F4A Birmingham forum reaction when people report their airport experiences in 2024:

"I got through in less than 15mins"
- it's the nasty press blowing out of all proportion on a slow news day
- the problems at BHX have been so over-hyped
- the state of the art security rebuild is great, there was bound to some disruption whilst it was done

"Took me over an hour, had to queue outside in a tent"
- can't base our opinion on a one off report
- it's summer it's bound to be busy
- other airports might be bad too

 

[GliderPilot]

Good lord I thought this forum might've got past the my local airport is better than yours phase by now. It's a little bit childish by all involved whenever it crops up.

Furthermore, I do think that if you are partial to one airport more than another, it does come across as a bit odd to be browsing another's forum in enough depth to be able to quote a single post mentioning it from an entire thread.

Though F4A is not an airport and there is no requirement to announce my departure, This kind of thing is why I stopped using this site for so long and only recently returned. It isn't good for the site.

 

[TM3]

F4A Manchester forum reaction when people report their airport experiences.

Pile on - then banned from contributing on thread.

 

[Aviador]

If you fly through your airport at different times you will have periods when it's busier and periods when it's quieter. You may also compare your experiences with previous experiences from other airports. The same busy and quiet periods will exist at those airports too. It's difficult to compare your transit through each terminal if you travelled at different times although I don't think it's unreasonable to include your entire departure or arrival experience when comparing with other experiences from parking up to boarding at the gate. It may well be quicker from one airport when compared with another when factoring in travel times, parking, walking to gates or other factors.

 

[richard winterbourn]

Aviation, as someone who may have inadvertently disturbed a wasps nest, in my defence I will stress that I was in now way denigrating either an airport or a city.

In my experience as a 79-year-old man - and as I said with two knee replacements - it is much better and quicker for me to fly from Birmingham and the only other airpirt that flies to where i want to go - Terminal 3 at Manchester.

If people do not like what I said, ok. But this country is sufficiently woke already and, if we don't stand up to this incidious incursion into free speech, then I give up.

If you want to ban me, so be it. But I will not give in and retract comments which neither denigrated Manchester or its airport- just Terminal three which is 20 minutes from the rail station.

Forgive the aurotext. I meant to address it to Aviador.

Forgive the aurotext. I meant to address it to Aviador.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Richard, I would totally agree with you in regards to the walking distance, currently involved when using public transport to Manchester. It is a subject that is frequently raised at the meetings of the Manchester Airport Consultative Committee.

 

[Ray Finkle]

A little bit of common sense at last with two staircases now an alternative to the lifts.

In other news we went into Central Birmingham today and used the escalators in a very busy Bullring. It was close at one point but the family and I managed to use them successfully and just about got through unscathed

BHX opens 'escalator alternative' as it braces for 'busiest summer'

Passengers had previously been told their only option was to take brand new lifts up to the security hall

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[rollo]

In other news we went into Central Birmingham today and used the escalators in a very busy Bullring. It was close at one point but the family and I managed to use them successfully and just about got through unscathed

Does your insurance cover dangerous sports?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Does your insurance cover dangerous sports?

I always pay the premium for 'extreme escalator use' cover.

 

[rollo]

Hopefully your policy covers parachuting just in case!

Anyway back on topic I'm glad to see the security situation appears to be improving but until the tent and the queing for the lifts are gone along with the pre security check the airport has still got a long way to go in my view and the airport or at least its passengers will regret the lack of an escalator for years to come.

I also note the six week completion period has come and gone but building work is apperrantly still continuing

 

[JF57]

Hopefully your policy covers parachuting just in case!

Anyway back on topic I'm glad to see the security situation appears to be improving but until the tent and the queing for the lifts are gone along with the pre security check the airport has still got a long way to go in my view and the airport or at least its passengers will regret the lack of an escalator for years to come.

I also note the six week completion period has come and gone but building work is apperrantly still continuing

I was wondering if everything had been resolved now the magical 6 weeks had passed. Not seen so many complaints on social media but perhaps it is just old news now.

 

[TM3]

Regarding comparisons and escalators I flew through LHR at the weekend to Amsterdam.

I went through T5 but if you use that or the Queen's Terminal you can clearly see how lifts are much slower than escalators. Only in some situations where there are many floors to travel through are lifts quicker.

And yes there are extensive escalators at LHR so I can't see how they can have been banned by any health and safety directive.

On the subject of scanning. Same liquid rule and old scanners at LHR and took me 8 minutes from scanning the boarding pass to get through.

BHX has had queues outside the pass scanner for a long time, particularly during summer. It makes me wonder if anyone took this into account as far as how much extra capacity was required from the new hall if all of their figures were based on flow rate through the boarding pass scanner.

 

[Nibbles]

And yes there are extensive escalators at LHR so I can't see how they can have been banned by any health and safety directive.

They are not 'banned'. The fundamental requirement is having space at the exit end of an escalator to deal with max passenger flow - otherwise everyone ends up in a heap, dangerously squashed together.

That space isnt available at Birmingham - because the new security area is in that location. If you wanted to keep the escalator(s), the security area would have to go elsewhere, probably where it already is. And then you wouldnt be able to move duty free and open up that part of the airport for f and b operators. Of course, if the airport had the space (and, crucially, the money to make the space), escalators absolutely would be a better option and i am sure they would much rather do that, but its not possible here.

FYI, the new HS2 stations being built will have escalators from platform to concourse (and vice versa).

On Heathrow lifts - i think you are not comparing apples with apples. In that case, you are comparing a terminal with escalators as the primary vertical circulation and a handful of lifts for (say) those in wheelchairs, with a terminal which has chosen lifts as the the primary vertical circulation and have thus designed them to be quicker/bigger/etc. I think some in this group and elsewhere, who havent even been to the airport, think the BHX lifts are akin to the lifts you get in the Bullring, letting 3 people in and stopping at every floor.

 

[TM3]

That space isnt available at Birmingham - because the new security area is in that location. If you wanted to keep the escalator(s), the security area would have to go elsewhere, probably where it already is. And then you wouldnt be able to move duty free and open up that part of the airport for f and b operators. Of course, if the airport had the space (and, crucially, the money to make the space), escalators absolutely would be a better option and i am sure they would much rather do that, but its not possible here.

Haven't they just removed a perfectly servicable escalator (and paid a not insignificant amount to do that)?

Weren't there already F&B operators on the departures level anyway, before the work started?

On Heathrow lifts - i think you are not comparing apples with apples. In that case, you are comparing a terminal with escalators as the primary vertical circulation and a handful of lifts for (say) those in wheelchairs, with a terminal which has chosen lifts as the the primary vertical circulation and have thus designed them to be quicker/bigger/etc.

Which airport are you saying is not using lifts for the primary vertical circulation?

 

[Nibbles]

Haven't they just removed a perfectly servicable escalator (and paid a not insignificant amount to do that)?

Weren't there already F&B operators on the departures level anyway, before the work started?

Yes, but the location of that escalator is exactly where the security area now is. You couldnt put the security area there is the escalator had remained.

There were landside F&B yes, but the airport wants airside F&B after duty free. Duty free and new F&B will be, in effect, along the walkway which takes you to the south terminal, which will be much more open in the future. It would be great to share a drawing, but im not aware that one exists other than the handful of press articles on it last year.

Roughly, its going from this (green security, blue duty free, red escalators);

to this (green security, blue duty free, red lifts, purple new F&B)

(the sizes of these are a complete guess, but indicative)

Which airport are you saying is not using lifts for the primary vertical circulation?

Heathrow - which your post noted has 'extensive escalators'. See my previous point - if you have the necessary space, escalators are definitely the best way of doing things. But BHX does not have the necessary space.

EDIT

Actually, its easier than i thought. New security (green) is where Burger King, Frankie and Benny's, etc. were previously located (and, note, the escalators). Lifts have been installed roughly where Burger King was. Im going to guess that duty free stays broadly where it is, perhaps with a few walls moved around to get the right passenger flow (you come out of security somewhere close to where WH Smiths was, i think).

That would imply that the new F&B will go in the old security area. Plenty of artists impression drawings here;

Birmingham Airport terminal transformation to deliver fresh food & beverage partnership opportunities

Under current plans, up to six new F&B opportunities will arise airside at Birmingham Airport, with outlets ranging from 150sq m to 450sq m.

moodiedavittreport.com

(note the aircraft on the extreme left of that picture, which will help orientate!)

 

[TM3]

Heathrow - which your post noted has 'extensive escalators'. See my previous point - if you have the necessary space, escalators are definitely the best way of doing things. But BHX does not have the necessary space.

Not sure when you last used T5 but there are no escalators between arrivals and departures at T5.

Birmingham Airport terminal transformation to deliver fresh food & beverage partnership opportunities

Under current plans, up to six new F&B opportunities will arise airside at Birmingham Airport, with outlets ranging from 150sq m to 450sq m.

moodiedavittreport.com

So they have built a new security hall, removed the escalator and the landside F&B so they can open 6 F&B shops airside?

Where is the additional capacity in the airport?

It's sad to see the Burger King go, with no food on flights these days it's a good option for passengers arriving late in the evening, especially as there is nothing at the station either.

 

[Nibbles]

Not sure when you last used T5 but there are no escalators between arrivals and departures at T5.

You were the one that said there were escalators everywhere at LHR. I havent been through there, so i dont know. I took from your message that there were some escalators and some lifts, but that the lifts are much slower. I think that was the point you were trying to make? Apologies if not...!

So they have built a new security hall, removed the escalator and the landside F&B so they can open 6 F&B shops airside?

Where is the additional capacity in the airport?

It's sad to see the Burger King go, with no food on flights these days it's a good option for passengers arriving late in the evening, especially as there is nothing at the station either.

They had to build a new security hall, with the existing one not big enough. The best location for it was, i guess, where it has now been located but that means all the landside F&B goes. The airport would rather you be airside, so those landside facilities dont add much real value.

In any case, the new F&B is associated (according to the pictures) with opening up the whole of the former security area so that, when you emerge from Duty Free, you'll be able to see aircraft. A good thing all around. Of course, a larger departure area means more space for people to mill around, so you get capacity increases as a result (noting that the old security area was as much a constraint to capacity as anything else!). And that means rather than a walkway that most people forget about, you'll have an open area to encourage people down to the southern end of the terminal (see earlier posts re how quiet it is down there!).

(dont forget that there is the other departure lounge expansion at the eastern end of the international pier that will presumably be restarted at some point).