Security, Immigration & Border Control

[MB1]

Yes, but the location of that escalator is exactly where the security area now is. You couldnt put the security area there is the escalator had remained.

There were landside F&B yes, but the airport wants airside F&B after duty free. Duty free and new F&B will be, in effect, along the walkway which takes you to the south terminal, which will be much more open in the future. It would be great to share a drawing, but im not aware that one exists other than the handful of press articles on it last year.

Roughly, its going from this (green security, blue duty free, red escalators);



to this (green security, blue duty free, red lifts, purple new F&B)



(the sizes of these are a complete guess, but indicative)


Heathrow - which your post noted has 'extensive escalators'. See my previous point - if you have the necessary space, escalators are definitely the best way of doing things. But BHX does not have the necessary space.

EDIT

Actually, its easier than i thought. New security (green) is where Burger King, Frankie and Benny's, etc. were previously located (and, note, the escalators). Lifts have been installed roughly where Burger King was. Im going to guess that duty free stays broadly where it is, perhaps with a few walls moved around to get the right passenger flow (you come out of security somewhere close to where WH Smiths was, i think).

That would imply that the new F&B will go in the old security area. Plenty of artists impression drawings here;

Birmingham Airport terminal transformation to deliver fresh food & beverage partnership opportunities

Under current plans, up to six new F&B opportunities will arise airside at Birmingham Airport, with outlets ranging from 150sq m to 450sq m.

moodiedavittreport.com

(note the aircraft on the extreme left of that picture, which will help orientate!)

What is interesting is that currently the old security hall is being used for additional queueing capacity for the new security hall with passengers being directed upstairs at Jet2 check-in and then routed along a walkway through the old security hall (along the landside windows) and through a connecting corridoor to meet the top of the lifts.

This seems to have helped the airport this summer mitigating the earlier scenes of queues outside the terminal waiting for lifts. I do wonder if there's any more security queue capacity in the plans, as currently there isn't much space at all between the security gateline (boarding pass scan) and new security scanners.

Opening the link between the two departure lounges with new F&B will hopefully be a positive - the old Eurohub always feels abandoned. Although I find that a positive - that's where I usually head!

 

[TM3]

You were the one that said there were escalators everywhere at LHR. I havent been through there, so i dont know. I took from your message that there were some escalators and some lifts, but that the lifts are much slower. I think that was the point you were trying to make? Apologies if not...!

When you said I needed to compare apples with apples I assumed you had been there.

T5 has no escalators landside but it has extensive escalators airside and I was refering to both when I made the comparison of moving floor to floor airside vs landside.

Using the lifts between arrivals and departures it not particularly quick, even though there are a lot more lifts there than BHX and they aren't particularly busy. It's not just the travel time it's the attendent time with using the lifts;

- Waiting etc, not knowing which lift will come next etc, even being too far away from the lift that arrives to get to it before the door closes when you notice it has arrived that extends the waiting.

At T2 (Queen's Terminal) the lift arrangement is similar but there is a big escalator which actually covers a lot more height than BHX, maybe 5 standard stories.

This is still always quicker than the lift but obviously, people with lots baggage and trollies have to use the lifts.

 

[KARFA]

When you said I needed to compare apples with apples I assumed you had been there

T5 has no escalators landside but it has extensive escalators airside and I was refering to both when I made the comparison of moving floor to floor airside vs landside.

T5 does have escalators landside. To say there aren't any is quite simply wrong. You can use them to get all the way from arrivals on the ground floor to departures on the top floor. There is one set at the south end and one set at the north end.

Kind of pointless being disparaging to others about their knowledge of T5 when you are actually the one getting it wrong

 

[TM3]

I've travelled through T5 many times and never used an escalator landside. If they are there they are not presented to you on arrival at the bus terminal, but the lifts are.

At the end of the day it doesn't counter the statement that the escalators are quicker, like I said at the T2 Queen's Terminal there is an escalator and it is quicker, also the observations about airside times are valid.

Kind of pointless being disparaging to others about their knowledge of T5 when you are actually the one getting it wrong

 

[KARFA]

I've travelled through T5 many times and never used an escalator landside. If they are there they are not presented to you on arrival at the bus terminal, but the lifts are.

Lol "if they are there"

 

[jfy1999]

Pleass keep the discussion polite, guys.

 

[gulftraveller]

There most certainly are escalators landside at T5.

 

[TM3]

I've travelled through T5 many times and never used an escalator landside. If they are there they are not presented to you on arrival at the bus terminal, but the lifts are.

At the end of the day it doesn't counter the statement that the escalators are quicker, like I said at the T2 Queen's Terminal there is an escalator and it is quicker, also the observations about airside times are valid.

Ok, let's just stick to the issue being discussed without being pedantic.

 

[Nibbles]

Ok, let's just stick to the issue being discussed without being pedantic.

Quite.

I knew there were some escalators - you can see them on google maps and i have a vague recollection of using a couple of them once (on a site visit!). But there we go.

Doesnt change the crux of what i was saying though - if you have space for escalators, they will almost always be best. But BHX doesnt have the space, so has to use something else (lifts, in this case). End of discussion.

 

[rollo]

Completely agree @Nibbles however I do think it perverse that an airport undertaking an expansion of up to 18 million passengers per year previously had space for an escalator and now doesn't. There can't be many equivalent size airports without a single working one particularly as a faulty escalator doubles as a staircase unlike a lift.

However it is what it is a suppose, life goes on.

 

[Nibbles]

Well yes, probably. But they do have staircases, so thats something. My assumption is that, once all finished, the lifts will have more than enough capacity to get people up to the first floor - they are very big and, you would hope, have been spec'd at a high level (incl. in particular re downtime). We will see.

 

[Nethercote2019]

Just heard on radio - I think ! the whole of EU are going to reintroduce the 100 ml liquid rules thru security
Does this mean that all the expense & heartache at BHX will of been worthless ?

 

[KARFA]

well that's the EU and not us. but yes effective 1 September it is back to each individual container having no more than 100 ml. doesn't seem to be an overall total liquids limit tho. and it applies to all new scanners,

 

[nancledre]

May I be cynical and suggest this is from pressure by the duty-free outlets. Spirits cost a lot less in resort than in “duty-free”

 

[Seasider]

I don't think airport duty free concessions have that much "clout"

 

[KARFA]

May I be cynical and suggest this is from pressure by the duty-free outlets. Spirits cost a lot less in resort than in “duty-free”

I think that would be a stretch

 

[Nibbles]

well that's the EU and not us. but yes effective 1 September it is back to each individual container having no more than 100 ml. doesn't seem to be an overall total liquids limit tho. and it applies to all new scanners,

Thats exactly what it is now at BHX.

Yes, its EU - but as far as i know we align with them and, in any case, if there is a flight going into EU airspace we'd be bound by it anyway.

As for the question on whether it was a waste of time - no, i dont think so. We have a much better security area now, and we've opened up a whole heap of space for additional airside departures facilities. In any case, i doubt it'll be long before the rule is updated.

 

[KARFA]

Indeed. It does seem the botched roll out at BHX, which led to the nationwide reimposition of liquid size restrictions in the UK , has meant we ended up ahead of the curve. Whether it gets relaxed back to no liquid restrictions with new scanners in the uk and Eu, well we will have to see.

For a uk departing flight, whether it goes in to the eu airspace or not is irrelevant, so no we would not be bound by it at all. It’s an EU regulation, there is no effect on the uk.

 

[Nibbles]

It does seem the botched roll out at BHX, which led to the nationwide reimposition of liquid size restrictions in the UK

This isnt the case at all. BHX had not moved to the new regs. Other airports had, but CAA monitoring noted that it wasnt working as they expected and the rules were changed (from any size container < 2L to no container > 100ml). BHX, when the new system was fully in place, moved (officially) from '100ml in a small bag' to 'no container > 100ml'. Yes, there were some who got the old new rule (up to 2L) when they went through the new scanners.

But this had nothing to do with BHXs rollout and everything to do with the new scanners not operating across the UK (and perhaps beyond) as they had been type approved.

I have a suspicion that this is actually a case of the EU agreeing with the CAA's position re the new scanner system and implementing that EU wide.

For a uk departing flight, whether it goes in to the eu airspace or not is irrelevant, so no we would not be bound by it at all. It’s an EU regulation, there is no effect on the uk.

I doubt that - though i dont know for certain. As far as im concerned, if a flight goes in to EU airspace or lands at an EU airport, it'll be subject to EASA rules. Similar worldwide. Remember when Egypt was blacklisted a few years back because the CAA was not satisfied that Egypt's equivalent was controlling security enough such that a British operator could be at risk - same principle, i think.

If EASA had more stringent security requirements than the CAA, it could be the case that an aircraft entering the bloc has not been screened correctly and could then be a security risk when it overflys and/or lands. Same vice versa. Though because sensible people are involved, and safety is paramount in aviation, we have an equivalence.

Of course, we could decide whatever we want on an internal only flight - but how would you split those out.

That all said, this is supposition on my part - grateful if anyone could clarify facts.

 

[richard winterbourn]

Karfa you are quite right. But for me, I was never interested in taking liquids above a litre out of the UK.

Regularly in both Portugal and Italy I am always frustrated that I cannot bring back litre bottles of either home-produced medronho or grappa through security.

There really is no comparison with the real local liquor and what is on offer in duty-free.

So, I am looking for restrictions to be lifted - but particularly in EU countries...