KLM

[Jerry]

Interesting video about travelling KLM from Cardiff Airport
#AvGeek

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[Jerry]

I know I've probably gone on about this too much but I can't reiterate enough how much a loss the loss of the overnight aircraft is especially for customer choice.
I just booked a trip to Dublin (it's a personal Avgeek trip as I've not flown Ryanair from Cardiff) which I'm flying out with Ryanair but as I'm returning on a Wednesday KLM is my best option to fly back (though Ryanair daily would be a better option) but as there's no night arrival i have to use the 16.45 arrival meaning a 11.00 departure from Dublin giving me less time there. For me that's not such a big deal but for someone else not being able to depart late afternoon could may well be the difference in them flying from Cardiff and instead choosing another airport.

 

[Samdorob]

I know I've probably gone on about this too much but I can't reiterate enough how much a loss the loss of the overnight aircraft is especially for customer choice.
I just booked a trip to Dublin (it's a personal Avgeek trip as I've not flown Ryanair from Cardiff) which I'm flying out with Ryanair but as I'm returning on a Wednesday KLM is my best option to fly back (though Ryanair daily would be a better option) but as there's no night arrival i have to use the 16.45 arrival meaning a 11.00 departure from Dublin giving me less time there. For me that's not such a big deal but for someone else not being able to depart late afternoon could may well be the difference in them flying from Cardiff and instead choosing another airport.

It certainly is a loss. AMS was growing well before they trimmed the route. The latest figures show around 66% LF if I remember correctly. If gov are planning on subsidising any route/airline the overnighter is a must.

 

[Jerry]

If gov are planning on subsidising any route/airline the overnighter is a must.

Yep these types of routes are what subsidies should be used for imo.

 

[Jerry]

Reading the LBA KLM thread has made me wonder if potentially Cardiff was/is on the list for Eastern Airways to takeover the route/nightstopper like they have at Bristol but lack of crew has prevented Eastern from doing that.
It does appear that Eastern are having some teething problems which kind of makes me wonder potentially if CWL dodged a bullet for the moment even though the loss of the overnight is a big blow.

 

[Finger66]

@Jerry agreed I think it's a case of people perhaps need to be careful what they wish for in the current climate

 

[Jerry]

Looking ahead to summer 2026, well the first week of April 2026, at the moment the route is still 14 weekly with no overnight. That seems to be the default now. Obviously along way to go until April 2026.
At the moment all the 09.50 departures are all E190s. While the 17.15 (17.35 on Saturdays) departure on Sunday, Monday, Thursday and Fridays are down for E175s the others E190. So that would be 10 E190 departures and 4 E175s giving 2704 seats onsale a week. In comparison next week CWL will see 6 E190 departures and 8 E175 departures with 2608 seats onsale. A modest increase but better than nothing.
Even if CWL can't persuade KLM to resume the 06.00 departure/22.00 arrival then maybe they can at least persuade KLM to go all E190 for all flights?

 

[geoff]

KLM evening departure cancelled for second day in succession, is it shortage of crews?

 

[Jerry]

KLM evening departure cancelled for second day in succession, is it shortage of crews?

One of the runways at Schipol is out of use.

Amsterdam Schiphol closes Aalsmeerbaan for maintenance work

Amsterdam Schiphol Airport will close its Aalsmeerbaan runway from May 5 to 10 for annual scheduled maintenance. During this time, the affected runway will be closed for...

aviation.direct

 

[Samdorob]

It looks like quite a few UK airports have had KLM cancellations, so not just Cardiff suffering in this instance.

 

[Jerry]

Looking at the passenger stats for Cardiff for March 2025 and Amsterdam was 8054 down 26% on 2024 where the route saw 10,913 passengers a loss of 2859 passengers. There's no doubt a significant proportion would've rugby orientated but its still a significant loss on such an important route.

If CWL can't get the night stopper back then maybe they can do some sort of deal to get the E195 on one the rotations to increase capacity?

 

[Jerry]

Just a look at the passenger numbers for Amsterdam over the last 12 months with the
April 2024 7791 2023 9058 -1267
May 2024 7966 2023 8666 -700
June 2024 8302 2023 9253 -907
July 2024 8873 2023 11,310 -2437
August 2024 9419 2023 11,359 -1940
September 2024 7858 2023 12,099 -4241
October 2024 8328 2023 10,458 -2130
November 2024 8293 2023 9267 -974
December 2024 8202 2023 9642 -1440
January 2025 6747 2024 8587 -1840
February 2025 7232 2024 9638 -2136
March 2025 8054 2024 10,913 -2859
In the period April to March 2024-25 CWL saw 97,071 passengers use KLM Amsterdam route. In the same period 2023-24 CWL saw 120,250 passengers. The Amsterdam route in that period has lost 23,179 passengers even if you account for special events like the RWC in 2023 for CWL to lose nearly 20% of its passengers on such a connectivity route like Amsterdam is a blow.

 

[Nuffsaid]

The question is where have those passengers gone? BRS? Local economy, cost of living taking causing a nosedive in demand? Local business no longer dealing with the EU (Brexit)? Many factors could be involved.

 

[Jerry]

The question is where have those passengers gone? BRS?

I have seen some people say that they're using the BRS 06.00 instead but its also possible some might have shifted to Heathrow and other airlines. If the local option isn't there that encourages people to travel more to seek out flights. There's also the possibility less people are travelling to Wales itself especially international students.

 

[Samdorob]

I have seen some people say that they're using the BRS 06.00 instead but its also possible some might have shifted to Heathrow and other airlines. If the local option isn't there that encourages people to travel more to seek out flights. There's also the possibility less people are travelling to Wales itself especially international students.

Am I right in thinking that a 6(ish) am departure opens up a lot more routes that aren’t possible on the later flights?

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Comparing other Airports figures, many larger Airports have seen a decline in passenger numbers to AMS in Mar 24 vs 23.
LGW (-20,373)
BHX (-4447)
LHR (-3169)
BRS (-523)
CWL (-2859)

SOU saw an increase of about 3000 passengers but they also now have EZY and KLM on the route. Total passengers of 9941 with 2 carriers, whereas CWL carried 8054 with just KLM.
Discussed on another forum based on KLM carrying the same number of passengers as last year puts KLM on an average of 55 passengers and EZY an average of 119, which can't be good for either Airline.
It's impossible to tell if KLM BRS have benefited from CWL's cuts, but it wouldn't be surprising.

 

[Jerry]

Am I right in thinking that a 6(ish) am departure opens up a lot more routes that aren’t possible on the later flights?

The 6am departure means you can access the morning departure bank for Europe and the West coast of the USA. It's arrival flight allows you to return using a lot of the evening departures from Europe.

Discussed on another forum based on KLM carrying the same number of passengers as last year puts KLM on an average of 55 passengers and EZY an average of 119, which can't be good for either Airline.

Yet KLM will are scheduled to operate the E195 E2 on the SOU route.

LGW (-20,373)
BHX (-4447)
LHR (-3169)
BRS (-523)
CWL (-2859)

With London it's possible Eurostar Amsterdam service is effecting those routes.

It's impossible to tell if KLM BRS have benefited from CWL's cuts, but it wouldn't be surprising.

Can only go on what people have said on social media in that they used to use the 6am flight but are now using Bristol.

 

[Seasider]

Depending on where they live, they will have to get up even earlier. Not good for me - I need my beauty sleep.

 

[Jerry]

Depending on where they live, they will have to get up even earlier. Not good for me - I need my beauty sleep.

Me too I'm not a fan of early morning flights.

 

[MrFenner]

My brother has a flight with KLM from CWL tomorrow via AMS to BSL for the Eurovision Song Contest final weekend.

He was more than happy to use CWL as the price comparison to direct flights from LHR was quite something - and a one stop was no issue for him as it added it little “extra” to the trip and saved the haul up to LHR.

Originally he had the early morning departure from CWL connecting nicely onto the mid-morning flight to BSL, however it changed of course when they dropped the overnight aircraft.

Not just that, they also changed the time of the next flight to BSL from AMS resulting in him having almost a 6hr layover.

Not much CWL can do about schedules of course, but it really does bring into question people’s tolerance levels of using such services when the morning departure isn’t there anymore - as mentioned, the 6am departure was a great connector to the European morning wave of departures from AMS.

Thankfully he stuck with CWL as a matter of course, plus cost implications.