Doncaster Sheffield - General Thread

[ryan]

I know these airports keep going but how?
With only 4-5 flights per day, it is not a business is it especially when most of the pax are paying next to nothing and the Polish pax especially do not spend any money at the airport.Smoke and mirrors?

Does it matter how much passengers are paying? Surely that's up to the airline to decide on what prices they charge! As long as the airport is paid the correct prices agreed with the airport, why is it a concern at how much passengers are paying??

 

[lbaspotter]

Does it matter how much passengers are paying? Surely that's up to the airline to decide on what prices they charge! As long as the airport is paid the correct prices agreed with the airport, why is it a concern at how much passengers are paying??

Yes it dose matter how much an airport makes from its passengers. Low cost Airlines like Easyjet, Ryanair and Wizz are known to get the lowest price possible out of Airports for there landing, handling fees and so on. This is why they can then afford to bring there aircraft and offer new routes at cheap fares from your local airport.

Regional Airports like Teeside, Blackpool, Newquay, Knock & Norwich have all had to find ways to make extra money to pay for own there own frees and bills that are incurred on a daily/year basis, This is why they have all introduced something called a development fee. Which is an extra charge to you and me. You pay extra on top of your already paid for airfare. Normally this is an extra cost of between £5 and £10 per person and is paid before departure of your flight in the airport’s terminal security area. Car Parking, Fast Track Check-in, Shops/Bars and executive lounges in the Terminal Buildings are other others ways for regional airports to generate more income as passengers are will to pay for thses optional extra's

Otherwise if you dont do this and dont have enough daily airliners, bizjets, helicopter movements everyday of the year you end up in a situation like the likes of Doncaster-Sheffield has found its self in now. l http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/nort...ouble-at-peel-airports.html?news_section=4148

I guess at the end off the day I can see a development free having to be introduced at DSA in the very future if they Peel Holdings continue to lose money like they are. They have done so already from Teeside.

I guess other members on here might be able to explain this a lot better than I have just done. So please feel free to do so. Regards lbaspotter.

 

[ryan]

I wasn't referring to money spent in the terminal, I was commenting on the fact wawkrk claims that "pax are paying next to nothing" on the "4-5 flights per day". It doesn't matter how much a passenger paid for a flight, be 1p or £1000, the airport will still receive the same amount of payment per pax from the airline. Speaking of Poles spending in the terminal, the few times I've used the Wizz flights from Doncaster, the bar was very well used!

 

[wawkrk]

My Point is, the locos like Ryanair screw the airport operators on charges as much as possible.There is only so much money in the pot from the fare.If a fare is 25 pounds including taxes and the cost of the flight, how much will the airport receive from this?
Answer, not a lot I suppose.

 

[ryan]

Ryanair wouln't be flying from DSA (or any airport) if the airport wasn't happy with the fees it was receiving - I don't understand why this is an issue! And not all fares on a flight are cheap as chips. Have a read up on yield management then get back to me!

 

[eastcoaster]

Regardless of what the fare is, the airport only receives an agreed amount per passenger. This can be, with Ryan Air/Jet2/EasyJet/Wizz in the region of £1 to £5 per passenger. Gone are the days when airlines paid landing fees based on the maximum all up weight of the aircraft. So if, for e.g FR are paying the airport £3 per passenger carried, it is that multiplied by how many there are on the flight. If there is 1 passenger the airport gets £3 if its 189 they get £567. But, when FR negotiate these prices before they start a flight, they also take into consideration with the airport, how many passengers the airline has to put through the terminal. E.G, they may have agreed with the airport that the route will put 25,000 pax through in a year. If they do not achieve this figure then the airport can and will impose a penalty on them for not fulfilling their part of the deal, and it probably will be a financial penalty. Now, it is not up to the airline what their passengers do in the terminal be they extravagent holiday makers , business persons or farm labourers from eastern Europe, but the actual airport itself must create a commercial environment with outlets to entice the money out of these passengers, ie shops, bars, restaurants, car parks, slot machines, fast track boarding, executive lounges etc. The airport can take up to 15% of all profits from sales in outlets, let alone they are charging them inflated rents for being there, as everyone has experienced the £8 coffee and sandwich rip off I'm sure. Airports look to expect all passengers to spend at least £20 per person in shops, but of course they can not make people do this.
So, if it looks like the airline after 12 months or whatever time period has been agreed is falling short of its projected target with the airport, you will probably see a period of extended cheap flight offers down to a few pounds/euros up for grabs. Some of you may remember a story from Norwich airport a few years ago, when FlyBe had a base there. They were falling short of their target loads for the year, and were actively asking staff, airport workers, friends and relatives to go to either Belfast or Dublin, I forget which, for free, just so they hit their target with the airport and they did'nt get fined thousands of pounds for breaking their contract.
I hope this makes things a bit clearer on how lo cost airlines and airports now make their money. The figures I used are not known and never quoted outside board rooms, so the figures that I used are just a guess, but from being involved in the industry, I can tell you that they are that low, and if they don't generally get below £10 per passenger the airline will go elsewhere. When locos were in their infancy starting out at Luton and Stansted in the early 90s, figures of 50p per passenger were the norm. Also, the airline not only pays the airport a paltry amount, but negotiates down their handling fees with the Handling Agent, i.e Servisair, to the point that they barely make money, hence you have the complaints that "there's never enough staff on duty to look after our flight" or there was only two staff on to de-ice 4 aircraft. All down to the cut throat deals the locos expect from airports. Most people now pay for baggage and check in fees which is added, as the airline has negotiated these fees away, only adding them if the passenger uses that option. There's only two things they do not seem to control and that is what they pay for fuel, and the navigation charges they incur for flying the worlds airways.

 

[wawkrk]

Liverpool airport for example is almost 100% loco with around 5m pax. The losses are also 5m so they are losing 1pound per pax.

 

[eastcoaster]

Liverpool airport for example is almost 100% loco with around 5m pax. The losses are also 5m so they are losing 1pound per pax.

With those sort of losses at Liverpool after 10 yrs Peel ownership and with their 5m pax throughput it makes you wonder how Mr Morton said of DSA that he "hoped the airport could break even within two to three years."
I guess he is trying to keep some positive spin going, along with the talk of a new airline for maybe later this year or 2012, which under the circumstances I feel anyone has to do, to keep the value of their shares up and to stop investors selling out.

 

[Aviador]

I would have thought the Cargo flights DSA has attracted will have brought a decent amount of cash in. In fact this is where DSA could do better than the previously mentioned Liverpool airport. Liverpool used to have a decent Royal Mail operation which I believe has all but dwindled away (correct me if I am wrong) Today the cargo offering at LPL is all but nothing. EMA is just down the road from DSA and it has a very successful cargo operation. If DSA can offer facilities at a slightly cheaper rate, they might just pick up some scheduled cargo services.

 

[eastcoaster]

DSA would certainly make more money on a freight flight, or so you would think, but it is still not uncommon for a projected flight to be offered around a group of airports for the best deal. That is unless, the cargo is destined for a specific area closest to that airport, or manufactured so close that moving to another airport is difficult by road.
Eight freight flights in December, although good, is not good enough. Eight a day would be getting near to what they need, along with their passenger flights to wiping out some of the debts.

 

[Hull City Fan]

It was good to see Doncaster being used on the recent BBC programme Come Fly With Me.

Some good advertisement for the airport!.

 

[AspectofRatio]

Can anyone recall if The Queen used DSA last November?

 

[User0001]

yes DSA was used. AFAIK she used an embrear legacy private jet.

 

[Aviador]

Hi guys and gals.

A quick question. Is the Vulcan now based at the airport full time or is it only going to be at the airport for a limited time? I'm looking at heading down your way within the next few weeks so if anybody can advise me on the "what when and where" it would be much appreciated. It will be my first visit to the airport too so I'm looking forward to seeing Yorkshire latest addition airport.

Cheers.

 

[ryan]

It's there permantley now. I'm not too sure exactly when the next flight is - the next display is this Saturday, and then early July. When the Vulcan does fly though, the terminal viewing area will (should) be open: and if you buy a drink at Wetherspoons, the car parking is £3 (main car park in front of the airport). If you wanted to go to the terminal for a quick look anyway, parkings free for 15 minutes. There's a Wetherspoons and Costa downstairs, and a Robin Hood statue just up the escalator!

In terms of aircraft viewing, Sundays are the busiest days if I remember correctly. The best place for viewing is down Old Bawtry Road, around the back: http://goo.gl/maps/aRJ0 and here: http://goo.gl/maps/4DhA - the road is split into two. I prefer to go to the southern end, but others prefer the northern end. Maybe try both! (directions between north and south: http://goo.gl/maps/72Lk). Bear in mind the directions on the second map don't make use of the dedicated link road.

That's all I can think of at the moment, if you have any further questions just ask away! :smile:

 

[Aviador]

Cheers Ryan, much appreciated. :good:

 

[jac]

It's there permantley now. I'm not too sure exactly when the next flight is - the next display is this Saturday, and then early July. When the Vulcan does fly though, the terminal viewing area will (should) be open: and if you buy a drink at Wetherspoons, the car parking is £3 (main car park in front of the airport). If you wanted to go to the terminal for a quick look anyway, parkings free for 15 minutes. There's a Wetherspoons and Costa downstairs, and a Robin Hood statue just up the escalator!

In terms of aircraft viewing, Sundays are the busiest days if I remember correctly. The best place for viewing is down Old Bawtry Road, around the back: http://goo.gl/maps/aRJ0 and here: http://goo.gl/maps/4DhA - the road is split into two. I prefer to go to the southern end, but others prefer the northern end. Maybe try both! (directions between north and south: http://goo.gl/maps/72Lk). Bear in mind the directions on the second map don't make use of the dedicated link road.

That's all I can think of at the moment, if you have any further questions just ask away! :smile:

Just to update on what Ryan has said...................The terminal viewing gallery is no longer open until further notice. It is hoped that the directions hangar (hangar 3) will be open to the public sometime later this year for viewing the Vulcan, rumour is sometime around September and a £10 entry fee. Bear in mind that the Vulcan will be away at displays on many weekends and may be hangared when at home.

To keep up to date with her whereabouts you should check the VTTS website................


http://www.vulcantothesky.org/appearances.html

:hatsoff:

 

[Seasider]

RE: aircraft viewing.
If you are a photographer, go down down the northern end of the old Bawtry road. Park at the end and walk another 50 m south. On the banking there are blocks which will put you above the fence. Used them on Wed eve when I was there for a "busy" period.

 

[Aviador]

Thanks Seasider and yes I'll be taking my SLR with me when I go. The primary reason for my visit will be to see the Vulcan so I'll need to get hold of the times when it's going to be either on the apron, landing or departing. If there's other stuff in then that's a bonus.

 

[ryan]

The next flight is Thursday 30th around noon, though I will update on times when they are published. If you do go (any time), it gets extremely busy so get down early!