Vueling

[Jerry]

Vuelings summer 18 program will tell a lot. They've generally slowly increased their frequencies at the airport but if they stagnate or cut then maybe the airport could temp Ryanair or Flybe onto those routes. Ryanair have bases at all of Vuelings destinations so could operate without basing and could even offer Girona instead of Barcelona. Flybe have said they are looking to make more profitable use of their aircraft and I'd be surprised if they couldn't fill them on Vuelings routes.
Unfortunately although Vueling have done well at CWL they do suffer from a lack of brand recognition around the UK as a whole.

 

[Tinkerman]

I don't understand this obsession with FR, if they wanted the routes so badly they would have almost certainly stepped in when Baby ceased trading.

VY will always be playing catch up in the UK versus the more traditional 'British-known' carriers such as EZY, FR, BA and to an extent TOM and TCX.

 

[Jerry]

I think the obsession with FR stems from where the airport needs to go in the future to get back to the 2 million passenger mark. I think many, including myself, was hoping for a Vueling base one day or for them to expand and add new routes but this has looked less likely even before today's news. If Vueling aren't going to base/expand then people will look to what Ryanair may do in the future as they are the most likely to add new routes or even base. Easyjet will never base or add routes and Monarch is highly unlikely so that leaves Ryanair and Jet2 as the most likeliest candidates and then neither may ever expand (FR) or actually turn up (Jet2). Vueling have been a great airline for CWL but unless they are willing to expand or base then the airport will need to seek out relationships with other LCCs to continue growing.

 

[superking]

A very strong talk of flybe pulling off all sun routes in s18 or before. They will concentrate on schedule uk flights,as they also reduce the fleet.

 

[Jerry]

A very strong talk of flybe pulling off all sun routes in s18 or before. They will concentrate on schedule uk flights,as they also reduce the fleet.

I think that would depend on how many E195's they would have left by then. I think it'll be 6 after November 2017. I honestly can't see the 195's leaving CWL by summer 2018 or BE giving up VRN, FCO, FAO or MXP as the 195's are better suited to sun routes than just regional hops which the Q400s are more suited to.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The thought has often been that if Ryanair, Jet2, Monarch or whoever came to CWL in a significant presence they would want a slice of the sun routes which might impact adversely on Vueling. If Vueling is reconsidering its position vis-a-vis the UK it might be that there will be no further growth route-wise at CWL.

That obviously means that getting one of airlines I mentioned will be even more important. To me Jet2 would be the best option for CWL, albeit they are increasingly a holiday airline. If Flybe does pull out of sun routes they might increase their business destinations at CWL giving the airport the best of both worlds (Jet2 and Flybe).

Ryanair can't be dismissed. Any concern that their BRS programme might be diluted by a CWL network doesn't seem to have been justified on the, admittedly small, sample operating at present, ie Tenerife and Faro. We can only go by passenger numbers; we won't know the crucial figure - the yield.

I looked last night at BRS-FAO for today with Ryanair and the seat selector showed 92.6% occupancy, with probably a few more seats still to be filled. easyJet's three outbound FAO flights today were (as at last night) showing 89.4%, 96.8% and 89.7% occupancy with the first a 320 and the other two 319s.

So don't write off Ryanair on some more routes in tandem with those at BRS. The intriguing thing would be Ryanair's reaction if Jet2 turned up at BRS. Would they fight or turn more to CWL?

 

[Jerry]

Vueling has released S18 up to March, April and May.
BCN is 3 weekly Monday, Wednesday and Friday
ALC is 5 weekly Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday
AGP is 4 weekly Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday
PMI is 4 weekly Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday
Only difference at the moment is no Tuesday BCN, and no Monday AGP but hopefully that will change. No new routes either.

 

[superking]

read today vueling slated for man handling pax off a plane in cwl. only seen it earlier and cant remember where I saw it. Any one heard any thing about this.

 

[Jerry]

read today vueling slated for man handling pax off a plane in cwl. only seen it earlier and cant remember where I saw it. Any one heard any thing about this.

I've seen a post about it. Apparently the flight was overbooked and a woman was bumped. I don't know whether she was manhandled or not and can't find any news items relating to it.

 

[Jerry]

Vueling stats April 2017
Alicante 6830 average pax 163 LF 87%
Barcelona 2433 average pax 101 LF 54%
Malaga 4701 average pax 181 LF 97%
Palma de Mallorca 3292 average pax 97 LF 52%

 

[Jerry]

Vueling stats May 2017
Alicante 7597 average pax 172 LF 92%
Barcelona 2856 average pax 102 LF 55%
Malaga 7272 average pax 181 LF 97%
Palma de Mallorca 4461 average pax 124 LF 66%

 

[superking]

BCN and PMI figures not looking good. They will have to get them figures up some how.PMI is the worrying one. Perhaps with pmi flogged to death at just about every airport I can understand that one.
The worrying one must be BCN with low numbers as that not flogged to death at every airport. I wonder if brs has collared the cwl pax with what they offer.I think there must be more awareness that these 2 routes are flown from cwl.

 

[Jerry]

With BCN and PMI it could be the times that are the problem.
With BCN twice a week you are arriving at 1 am local time with a 21.45 CWL departure compared to EZY at BRS which has several 10.30 departures throughout the week.
PMI could be the same as 3 times a week it arrives around 21.00 local time and there is more choice of earlier departures from BRS. Do people want to be checking into hotels at 10 11 pm at night or as in BCN case 2 3 am in the morning.
As a comparison Malaga is a 9 am departure with a 12.30 arrival throughout most of the week except Saturday when it departs 14.45 and arrives 18.20.
Alicante departs at 12.35 and arrives at 16.05. Those times are much nicer for holiday makers. I suppose this is the problem for CWL having it's main sun LCC Spanish based.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think that the timings on BCN are a problem as Jerry points out. easyJet has increased its own BRS-BCN frequency this summer going double daily every day of the week, mainly morning and evening each day outbound which provides many options. However, the evening return flights don't get back to BRS until between 2145 and 2340, depending on day of the week.

Whether easyJet has increased its own offering as a direct consequence of Vueling at CWL I don't suppose we will ever know.

We had a report recently in the CWL TOM thread from a poster living in South Wales who chose BRS because of the fare price but said that because of the queues at the airport and the difficulty with parking at Silver Zone he is unlikely to use the airport again. So it's not always price or even timings that ought to be the deciding factor one way or the other.

 

[Jerry]

Another factor could be cruise ship passengers. Barcelona is a massive cruise ship port, the airport has a direct tram link to it, the morning times for EZY would be perfect as the ships tend to like you to board in the afternoon. The Vueling times are rubbish for cruises. So the route could be missing them.

 

[CraigW92]

I agree on the timing issue on BCN, it's a shame really because after all the hard work that went into promoting the route and gaining momentum, by two of the flights changing into rather poor departure times from CWL it's sort of taken a backwards step, it seems next year currently they are loaded into similar time slots , of course scheduled and timings can change, very much like they did for this summer.

It brings back a quote from Roger Lewis the airport CEO who said a while back that a Vueling base in his words : “I feel it is not case a case of if, but I think a case of when.” This of course was taken before Vueling took the steps it seems to cut back on Uk expansion with routes dropped from various other uk airports, However, I imagine the airport is still putting the case to the airline. Vueling themselves have stated that summer season they don't see a problem, it's the winter season in which there could issues with aicraft deployment, demand etc

A VY base, or indeed another LCC, would certainly help with regards to the timing issue on various routes, and also add the potential for more routes to be added, jobs creation, increased footfall for the airport etc

For example the below schedule is what I think could be realistically offered in a first year of operation if indeed a base was opened, based on two rotations a day :


Vueling base : 2 A320

Monday

VY1 : 07:00 Palma / 12:45 Alicante

VY2: 08:00 Malaga / 14:00 Barcelona

Tuesday

VY1: 06:30 Ibiza / 12:30 Alicante

VY2: 07:00 Lanzarote / 16:10 Malaga

Wednesday

VY1: 08:00 Barcelona / 13:45 Alicante

VY2: 07:00 Malta / 15:30 Palma

Thursday

VY1: 08:00 Malaga / 14:00 Alicante

VY2: 07:00 Las Palmas / 16:20 Mahon


Friday

VY1: 07:00 Alicante / 13:30 Palma

VY2: 08:00 Malaga / 14:00 Barcelona

Saturday

VY1: 07:00 Ibiza / 13:20 Alicante

VY2: 06:30 Lanzarote / 16:20 Palma

Sunday

VY1: 08:00 Barcelona / 13:45 Las Palmas

VY2: 07:30 Alicante / 14:00 Malaga

Different routes could indeed be offered e.g FCO if BE chose to explore different avenues, Increased frequencies could well mean there could be no need for a base as of yet, If indeed VY or another LCC operator chose to base 2 or more aicraft here this would also push the airport back up to around the 2MPPA mark which was last seen when baby themselves had a base at the airport , With QR starting next year, a significant short haul operation would certainly add to the growing optimism around the place.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

That sort of network would be very popular. Winter might be more problematical but the likes of easyJet and Ryanair don't utilise all their aircraft all of the time in winter. I assume neither does Vueling.

 

[Jerry]

That sort of network would be great for CWL. With winter the base could be reduced to 1 aircraft with a focus more on the Canary islands.
VY already operate 4 flights a week during the winter. TFS ACE LPA and FUE could all be operated weekly. Could they operate a weekly KEF or even a couple of northern lights flights? There is also the potentially during February and March of operating special flights for the rugby.
I think they could find a way to make it work.
Another option for Vueling could be what Ryanair does at BOH, they base 1 aircraft and operate the other flights with non based aircraft.

 

[CraigW92]

That sort of network would be very popular. Winter might be more problematical but the likes of easyJet and Ryanair don't utilise all their aircraft all of the time in winter. I assume neither does Vueling.

I think so too, its a shame this year that more or less with the BCN route and the PMI route to some extent that they've taken a step back, I can't see BCN improving signifanctly over the course of the summer, so hopefully timings are rejigged, Orginally that's what I thought FR were doing with the announcement of thr TFS route, that a little money could be made off the route instead of parking the aircraft up, Seems to have been a good idea as the route seems to be doing quite well, although I'm very cautious when it comes to expansion by FR.

That sort of network would be great for CWL. With winter the base could be reduced to 1 aircraft with a focus more on the Canary islands.
VY already operate 4 flights a week during the winter. TFS ACE LPA and FUE could all be operated weekly. Could they operate a weekly KEF or even a couple of northern lights flights? There is also the potentially during February and March of operating special flights for the rugby.
I think they could find a way to make it work.
Another option for Vueling could be what Ryanair does at BOH, they base 1 aircraft and operate the other flights with non based aircraft.

TFS would be up against FR at 2 weekly and also the TOM winter programme, could be overcapacity if VY decided to give it a go aswell, ACE and LPA I'd say for sure, FUE is a strange one, it usually ends up in the graveyard of routes when any airline tries it for any sustained period of time, of course that could well change If a LCC decided to operate it.

For one based winter AC potentially you could have:

2 X LPA
2 X ACE
2 X ALC
2 X AGP
1 X FUE
1 X MLA

There could be potential for Thomson ( TUI) to link up woth VY on FUE and also MLA if they chose to do so, As you say very much the options for six nations flights in FEB and MAR

I'd say that perhaps a summer seasonal base may perhaps be more likely first if anything was to happen at all, although how likely that is in the short term remains to be seen with the VY business model, certainly though something significant in the summer months is needed, especially as nothing has been since the days of baby many years ago.

 

[Jerry]

When it comes to Vueling and them basing at CWL I'm starting to become a little sceptical that they will. I would love them to but I do wonder if the airport actually needs an airline that is known Europe wide including Eastern Europe to get the kind of network that would bring in inbound tourism as well as carrying outbound Welsh people. Now long haul wise Qatar Airways will be able to do that but short haul wise I think only Easyjet and Ryanair have the profile Europe wide to do that at CWL. The Flybe Germany flights are example of that.