Chinese Charters

[Brum X]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Sorry to have my say but there is nowt wrong with the 767. If United or AA upgraded to a 767, i dont think we would be complaining. As you say they have 3 767s so gonna use them for something so why not BHX.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Point taken and it will be good to see one in action again, apart from the MAEL visitors we haven't had one since TOM changed to the 787.

 

[User0001]

Re: Hainan Airlines

BrumX,

In all fairness to Ray, I can see the point he was trying to make.

Hainan could have used their A330 or B787 on the BHX charters, as these are the standard equipment for Hainan long haul.

Instead, they send a B767, which, by all accounts is a bit 'battered' inside, mainly used on domestic flights and will be retired soon.

Cassia Travel obviously went for the lowest bidder, and, Hainan seem to be making a point of sending their oldest aircraft to BHX.

 

[Brum X]

Re: Hainan Airlines

BrumX,

In all fairness to Ray, I can see the point he was trying to make.

Hainan could have used their A330 or B787 on the BHX charters, as these are the standard equipment for Hainan long haul.

Instead, they send a B767, which, by all accounts is a bit 'battered' inside, mainly used on domestic flights and will be retired soon.

Cassia Travel obviously went for the lowest bidder, and, Hainan seem to be making a point of sending their oldest aircraft to BHX.

Point taken, but as i said, they do have x3 767s and the flights to BHX are "charter" flights.
Maybe they will be sending there A330s to MAN which apparently is being announced tomorrow. :hatsoff:

 

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Hainan Airlines

MAN will be on an A330, but, getting back to BHX, user001 summed up my point, if this was to be a precursor to something more permanent then I'm sure a 787 would have been used to create the best possible impression as this will get alot of media attention. If China Southern were interested then surely they'd have been back this year?

Also FAO CL44 this is off the United Travel website about baggage allowance:

BAGGAGE ALLOWANCE: 1PIECE 23KG

 

[CL44]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Going by the figure of 23 kgs then it stands a chance for cargo to be sold. I would suggest the first rotation would be used to prove the route works and that any extra space would be made available from the second rotation onwards.

 

[thunderchild]

Re: Hainan Airlines

A few points;

Firstly, when the China Southern flights were first announced last year and discussion moved to the potential of scheduled flights many pointed out that China Southern perhaps wouldn't be the right airline as their main hub in Guangzhou rather than Beijing, which would be the more logical choice. BHX has now been criticised because China Southern haven't returned - is it not possible that BHX decided this year to approach an airline with a hub in Beijing with a longer term plan in mind? They were probably just happy to have anyone last year so the runway extension could be opened.

Secondly we now have criticisms of the equipment being used - may I remind you all that Hainan is a five star airline so even if there 767's are a little battered they probably hold up much better than a lot of other airlines and having seen pictures I think they are perfectly adequate for this type of operation - it's a two month charter operation and Hainan are hardly likely to pull there A330's and 787s of their regular, prestige long haul operations! I could only imagine the uproar if Hainan swapped the A330 to operate the BHX charters and changed MAN to the 767!

The truth is that the choice of Hainan took EVERYONE by surprise this year so no one knows exactly what goes on behind the scenes. The fact also remains that BHX is dammed if it does, dammed if it doesn't in some peoples eyes.

 

[User0001]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Thunderchild,

I think youve stepped a bit too much on the defensive peddle there.

Firstly, China Southern.

They were apparently proud to be serving BHX, looked forward to working with them in the future, and were impressed with BHX.

So, its a genuine question, if they were so impressed, why are they not back? Yes, the golden aim of UK regionals seems to be Beijing, but, in terms of onward connections to both China and beyond, Guangzhou is just as good as Beijing. What stopped China Southern strating BHX-CAN? Its not all about Beijing.

Secondly,

Hainan indeed are a 5 star airline, and yes the B767 is still in better shape than some, however, B787's and A330's are also used on domestic runs. To 'standardise' the long haul product, charters or not, it wouldn't have been a huge issue to get a B787/A330 on the flight. Yes, the B767's are good, but not as good as their newer aircraft, which was the point being made.

Its also a wonder why both China Southern and Hainan have not offered any seats via their own websites, after all, no matter how few seats they can sell, the visibility and advertising would do them wonders.

I will finish by saying, however, the expanded charters are a fantastic coup for BHX, B767 or otherwise. You have to commend the inginuity of BHX for going after these flights, after all, charter passengers are just as important as scheduled ones, in fact, probably better for BHX as they tend to spend more in the airport.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Hainan Airlines

When the China Southern flights were announced I suggested a CAN-PEK-BHX-PEK-CAN route and the fact that China Southern seem to be promoting their 'Canton Route' down to Oz which could have been perfect for BHX.

At no point have I criticized BHX about them not returning, I'm just puzzled that after all the kind words that were spoken between the two last year they chose not to return this year? I think it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask why? If BHX are genuinely trying to get a scheduled flight then surely they must have a strategy with an airline to build up a passenger base with charter flights which may eventually then lead to something more permanent? I find it hard to believe that BHX are in a position where they can pick and choose airlines depending on their needs and using a Hainan aircraft after they've already announced flights elsewhere makes it all the more baffling. At the moment it just seems like they got the Hainan aircraft on a better deal than China Southern so that's what they went for. Will there be the same level of interest next year if Caissa charter a plain white Hi Fly aircraft?

With regards to the equipment again I've not criticized it, I love the 767 and am looking forward to seeing it, I'm simply making the point that a new 787 Dreamliner would have a much bigger impact in the press than a 767, it's obviously something that Hainan aren't too concerned about.

If people take this as criticism then so be it but for me these are genuine questions.

 

[Brum X]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Maybe its just a BHX ploy to jump into bed with all chinese carriers to get the BHX message around, who knows ,maybe next year it will be China Eastern or Air China ????

 

[Manniashraf]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Maybe its just a BHX ploy to jump into bed with all chinese carriers to get the BHX message around, who knows ,maybe next year it will be China Eastern or Air China ????

Ahahahahahahaahaahahahahahahahaaha that got me and my family into ! :diablo:

 

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Maybe its just a BHX ploy to jump into bed with all chinese carriers to get the BHX message around, who knows ,maybe next year it will be China Eastern or Air China ????

Now that would be something, maybe next year we could have Hainan from Beijing, China Southern from Guangzhou and China Eastern from Shanghai all in at the same time

What a photo op that would be :s_yes

 

[Aviador]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Maybe its just a BHX ploy to jump into bed with all chinese carriers to get the BHX message around, who knows ,maybe next year it will be China Eastern or Air China ????

In retail supermarkets call these loss leaders but does anybody really care how BHX got these flights? Let's hope they are a huge success and they lead to yet more flights in the future with whichever airline that might be.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Hainan Airlines

In retail supermarkets call these loss leaders but does anybody really care how BHX got these flights?

Yes and no.

If BHX had said from the start these are simply a series of charters and hopefully they will continue year after year I think everyone would be very happy for a bit of variety over the summer, indeed different airlines would add to the interest. However, with Jo Lloyd making comments such as "pave the way for scheduled flights" peoples expectations are immediately raised, it's clear from reading various message boards that many people are expecting an announcement to follow. Flitting between airlines says to me there is no real strategy at the moment other than get as many pax as possible and use the numbers as evidence of demand. I have no issue with this other than if scheduled flights are far from imminent then don't mention them at all, just let everyone enjoy the charters for what they are until the time comes.

The other thought I had was I wonder how much say BHX have actually had in the choice of airline, if they've had any say at all? Caissa and United Travel have arranged the tours and chosen BHX as the entry airport and I imagine the two operators will be the only ones to lose out big time if the sales aren't there. Did they speak to many airlines and go for the lowest bidder then tell BHX this is what's happening or is it really a 'partnership for the future', just like China Southern was last year?

I'm just going to enjoy them for what they are and look forward to a bit of variety over the summer, anything that may follow will just be a bonus. I think Thunderchild is right, there must be plenty going on behind the scenes which we'll probably never know about

 

[Brum X]

Re: Hainan Airlines

It appears that "China" and "Chinese Airlines" is going to be a tough deal. I know this is about BHX but again no announcement Re: Hainan at MAN. It was everywhere it would be announced today, are they going to start MAN-PEK or not ????


Biman Bangladesh Part 2 Me thinks.

 

[Brum X]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Anybody know why BHX appears as a drop down on the Hainan Website ????

So does LHR and MAN but these have connections via Brussels to Beijing which when checking is not offered from BHX when you try and search. Its strange as i put in a host of other UK airports such as GLA/EDI/LGW/STN/BFS and nothing. Only LHR/MAN and BHX appears.


https://www.hainanairlines.com/OEC/GB/Home

 

[spentaylor]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Just tried a dummy booking to Beijing and I'm offered connections via Brussels both ways for selected flights from BHX in July

 

[Brum X]

Re: Hainan Airlines

Just tried a dummy booking to Beijing and I'm offered connections via Brussels both ways for selected flights from BHX in July

Cheers for that, i only did a search for some dates in April and nothing appeared.


They also need to update there webiste then becouse the above link to Hainan, only mentions flights to Beijing from London and Manchester. Birmingham is not mentioned.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Re: Hainan Airlines

I emailed Hainan just to see what their thoughts were about BHX.

The reply from their European office and their Head Office in Haikou both said 'no new European routes in 2015 other than Rome and Tel Aviv' (?).


I think someone mentioned earlier that BHX-PEK flights on 3rd and 6th of July and PEK-BHX flights on 24th and 28th August are now advertised. I assume all the flights in between will be filled by those on the organised tours and these, which are effectively just positioning flights, are being put on general sale as a bonus even though a return with someone else would be required?

 

[Brum X]

Re: Hainan Airlines

However and without getting into a BHX V MAN Spat, do you think that they have a relationship with BHX and therefore put MAN and the other London airport on hold becouse they are re-considering there future plans ?????


Just a thought becouse it is a bit strange that MAN and possibly STN/LHR have gone off the radar ???