Virgin Atlantic

[Aceshigh]

A "Rouge" type schedule is useless!
Hope somebody alerts all the tech companies in the area.

I thought load factors were ok ..ish for a new flight ?

If we are not careful Pre Clearance will arrive after everybody has left.....!

 

[ethanegcc]

A "Rouge" type schedule is useless!
Hope somebody alerts all the tech companies in the area.

I thought load factors were ok ..ish for a new flight ?

If we are not careful Pre Clearance will arrive after everybody has left.....!

I thought the load factors (atleast for SFO) in low season (March) were good from a standing start too. I would say that although this seasonal schedule is less than ideal for business customers, it is only two months shorter than this year - which was also a seasonal schedule.

Rouge seems to do well from Manchester on this schedule, and Virgin should do well with leisure passengers and business travellers who are travelling within that period. The only problem is they are unlikely to get contracts, as the season is short, but that issue was there already.

I think we need to give it time. I would be happy if we can hold on to these routes, and increase the transfer market which we all know has been increasing and helping Virgin.

Maybe BOS could be scrapped and exchanged for 2 more Las Vegas rotations with the A330?

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Perhaps we need to acknowledge some tough home-truths. Certain routes are just not strong enough to bear competition from two carriers launching virtually simultaneously. We all welcome news of new services but I'm always wary when multiple carriers launch the same route head-to-head before the market has been nurtured and stabilised. MAN has had bad experiences of this phenomenon on routes to Madrid and Berlin in the past ... a season of unsustainable over-capacity closely followed by the risk of no service at all. I won't be too upset if BOS and SFO stabilise with just one carrier on each route. In the final analysis, carriers have to make money and I've received a torrent of low fare ads from TCX for BOS and SFO (and Singapore to IAH). And we must remember that one reason why certain scheduled flights perform very strongly in attracting transfer passengers is because they consistently come up as the cheapest option amongst a long list on booking engines. That can imply enduring low yields.

On a similar theme but a rather less prestigious route, MAN-GLA is also a cause for concern beyond September as FlyBe and Loganair prepare to battle it out. Eight flights per day (plus direct trains) is too much capacity. There will be blood. Short-term bonanza, long-term tears.

 

[Aceshigh]

I echo EGCC. I can't help thinking the tfr traffic may be more an accident of economics rather than a conscious decison to use Manchester, although I would love to be proved wrong.

If a "Manchester " option comes up cheapest you can bet there are 60 odd bewildered passengers booking a ticket with not the foggiest clue they are actually being routed via Manchester. Although same rationale applies of course via Paris LHR etc

I would love to ask these passengers if they knew what they were getting!

 

[ethanegcc]

Not a great deal of transfer passengers "choose" an airport to pass through unless they have a specific preference e.g. frequent flyer programme. Most will go for the quickest connection time/best value and if this happens to be via Manchester they select it. If the option is there, customers will take it. I certainly wouldn't specifically choose LHR or CDG or AMS because I wanted to go via that airport, and I'm sure most other customers are the same.

I do agree however, that the SFO route was a bit fragile to have two carriers launching straight after eachother. And Manchester-Glasgow will be a bloodbath that I think Flybe will win.

 

[Dobbo]

There obviously has to be a leap of faith, by VS or another, to get the necessary critical mass of frequency needed to attract business traffic on MAN-SFO.

It has not helped VS that TCX started the route, but that applies both ways. What is encouraging is that TCX obviously still thought, despite VS having announced the route, there was a gap in the market for them. This at least means it is unlikely that we will loose the service all together.

Hopefully both will cling on and in 2/3 years we will see both on routes like SFO and LAX. Obviously the economic conditions in the U.K. Need to remain okay, and Manchester and the north needs to continue its boom period...

 

[EGCC_MAN]

Hopefully both will cling on and in 2/3 years we will see both on routes like SFO and LAX

Actually, I hope they don't both cling on. I'd much rather see one carrier building up a comprehensive and sustainable MAN-LAX schedule and the other doing likewise on MAN-SFO. Furthermore, I'd prefer to see just one carrier nurturing MAN-BOS. Better still would be some sort of alliance agreement between TCX and VIR, though with Delta's involvement that appears unlikely. But whilst two carriers are carving up the potentially profitable peak-period demand (thereby trashing yields) the returns will not justify either carrier attempting the leap to year-round operation given that seasonal losses within certain shoulder-periods are inevitable. And year-round operation is what the business travel sector really needs.

Unfortunately, some city-pairs do not offer the depth of market demand necessary to profitably support two competing carriers. I'm reluctantly inclined to acknowledge that MAN-SFO/BOS/LAX belong on that list.

 

[ethanegcc]

Just seen a post on airliners.net:

'Delta have dropped MAN'

This is my biggest petty annoyance at the moment. While technically true, it isn't the fill story and implies an inherently negative situation, when infact it has resulted in a great outcome for MAN thus far. Although JFK for winter was a disappointment, I will be keenly hoping Virgin can maintain a decent schedule at MAN, in the face of cuts.

 

[michael]

Just a quick trip report after just having had a couple of weeks in Orlando doing what seems to have to be done in that part of the world. (Moderators if this post needs moving please feel free)
Out on VS75, B744 G VLIP on 4th July, 422 passengers on board. We boarded in good time only to be told that the power unit had failed on board so the air con was not working - we were on the top deck and it was literally like being sat in a sauna, not a good start to an 8.5 hour flight. One engine was started to get some power in the system which I would have thought the ground staff would have been aware of however they attached a 'normal' tug to the aircraft which would not push the aircraft with one engine running so we had to wait of a bigger tug arriving which, to be fair, was only a few minutes. Once up in the air we had a good flight although it seemed to stay very warm on board throughout even though I had the overhead fan blowing the whole time, also in my seat the IFE touch screen didn't seem as sensitive as it could have been, I got the impression it was a bit 'worn'. Orlando airport arrivals very slick, far quicker than it used to be with electronic passport readers then to the customs official, from disembarking the plane to being the 'right side' of customs in 20 minutes.
Return flight on VS76, B744 G VROY, 290 pax on board, delayed by 2 hours b/c of an Orlando monsoon, a far more comfortable flight back with regards to temperature on board infact it could at times have been described as cool for the overnight flight, a much more responsive IFE touch screen and great staff - as they were on the way out. Have to add that the in flight hot meal was great in both directions. The one down side to the whole experience was waiting for luggage at Manchester, we landed approx 9.20am so was 9.30 by the time we disembarked however it was after 10.30 when the cases arrived so we were waiting an hour - at that time of day to me there's no excuse, yes there was a Singapore flight in plus an Air Canada but it wasn't as if it was early afternoon when all the first wave of bucket and spade flights return.
Overall again Virgin gave us a great experience and we'll definitely fly with them again although unfortunately it's likely not to be the B747 next time.

 

[Dobbo]

Thank you for sharing your review Michael. I share your frustration on the baggage front but, on paper, the specification for the system installed during the TP should resolve these issues.

Turning to VS's operations at MAN, a few short months ago there was a concern that the US market was weakening to an extent that It might jeapordise VS' current and future planned expansion plans at MAN.

The much weakened winter programme, and a shorter summer 2018 season for SFO and BOS seemed to bear out these concerns.

However, with some decent news from TCX, and AA I wonder whether there is more confidence creeping into the US marketplace again.

We wait to see whether UA remain committed to the regional U.K. marketplace (if they pull out of MAN the answer is a clear "no") but I wonder if we can be cautiously optimistic about VS/DLs plans from 2019 onwards?

 

[michael]

However, with some decent news from TCX, and AA I wonder whether there is more confidence creeping into the US marketplace again.

I should have added on my review that while we were waiting at Orlando for the storm to pass at the departure gates that the UK operators use there was 4 x VS B747's (2 MAN and 2 LGW), 1 x BA B772 LGW plus 2 x TCX A332's which I think would be 1 MAN and 1 LGW. Pretty impressive!
Additionally on our outbound flight there was a significant number of Scottish and Irish accents to be heard which may indicate a good number of connecting passengers

 

[Dobbo]

That is good to hear, MCO has traditionally been a strong marketplace for MAN and I hope that continues. Perhaps next time you fly the route it might be on an A35K - although I bet they redeploy two A333 and go two daily rather than the 10/11 weekly on the B744.

Hopefully an increase in market confidence and transfer traffic will feed into a larger winter flying programme in W19, followed by an expanded S19 that builds on where VS are right now (and hopefully takes advantage of USPC).

 

[Dobbo]

This thread could now be renamed "Virgin/Delta/Air France/KLM/Alitalia Global Joint Venture"

http://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news/air-france-klm-strengthens-its-strategic-partnerships

I can't see mention of MAN, but what might it mean for VS's operations here?

I suppose the VS/DL horizon was very TATL. This may look further east...

 

[Jerry]

This thread could now be renamed "Virgin/Delta/Air France/KLM/Alitalia Global Joint Venture"

http://www.airfranceklm.com/en/news/air-france-klm-strengthens-its-strategic-partnerships

I can't see mention of MAN, but what might it mean for VS's operations here?

I suppose the VS/DL horizon was very TATL. This may look further east...

Thought Alitalia had dropped out of the JV?

 

[Jerry]

I honestly can't see how it would benefit KLM/Air France?

 

[ethanegcc]

To be fair, now Delta metal is out of the equation at Manchester, we could just call it 'Virgin Atlantic' as that is the company name. For example, the American thread isn't called AA/BA partnership or vice versa.

The wider JV could be good. Hopefully KLM and Air France codeshare on Virgin's routes and may route a few stragglers through Manchester!

 

[ethanegcc]

A new blog post is out from Virgin Atlantic, celebrating the promotion of the Lake District to a UNESCO World Heritage site. It mentions Manchester as the airport of choice. https://blog.virginatlantic.com/5-unmissable-viewpoints-lake-district/

 

[Dobbo]

As far as MAN goes, I can see this going one of two ways:

• Good scenario - the new JV uses MAN to route passengers from parts of Europe that AF/KLM don't reach (but BE do). It may also, finally, bring 9W into the equation at MAN.

• Bad scenario - DL/VS want to increase capacity via the large KLM hub at AMS and AF at CDG. They will use AF/KLM slots at LHR for new long haul services.

Obviously BE have some arrangement with AF at regional U.K. Airports, so who knows.

 

[User001]

VS routes to SFO and BOS are now back to being bookable from 28th March, after a period where they were bookable from May only.

Very positive.

(Edit, they have been re added back into master GDS systems but not on the websites yet.)

 

[Dobbo]

Very positive - and surprising given the anecdotal reports of the early part of this season.

I wonder how the AF/KL tie in will change what VS is used for ex MAN. It is obvious that part of the tie in was access to LHR, but how will they look to capture the north of England market - if they want to do that without treading too much on KL and AF's toes with the shuttles to AMS and CDG respectively?