Potential Routes


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Jerry

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With the future for airlines like Flybe and Ryanair and Jet2 uncertain and the likelihood of Easyjet arriving at the airport slightly unlikely to say the least and as Cardiff wants to be the airport where the world connects to Wales should the airports strategy be to try and attract European hub airlines either through their mainline or regional product most likely the latter?
4 targets could Lufthansa for either Frankfurt/Munich, SAS for Copenhagen, Swiss for Zurich and Alitalia for Milan or Rome. Any of these would not only give better connections to Europe but also better connections to the world and the potential of inbound tourism.
 

Foxlimayankee

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The simple answer, yes they should target those carriers and every possible carrier they can, but it doesn't mean it would work and it's the right thing to do. Lets also not forget the fact that BRS will also be targeting them.
At BRS, If Lufthansa thought BM did enough on FRA & MUC, they'd have been in there by now. Copenhagen has been tried and failed, albeit as more of a leisure focus route for SAS. Zurich was a disaster for Helvetic, but didn't have connections and the market probably isn't big enough for Alitalia/Italy.
Bringing in any of those carriers to CWL will affect KLM, regardless that QR have had little effect, KLM can focus on their short haul connections. The focus for CWL should be boosting AMS to full E195 operation then potentially a 4th daily flight.
CWL's short term focus should be accepting the fact that once again there has been bad luck affecting the offering, and getting people through the door and fill the flights they currently have. What isn't needed is new carriers and routes that could potentially not do well.
Having a focus on filling current flights will make current routes more viable and profitable, then the focus can shift to new carriers and routes on the basis that money can be made at CWL. It's may not be thinking big, but it will be thinking sensible.
CWL may not have the route network of BRS, but it has options. It has holiday flights, scheduled holiday routes, a decent domestic network, short haul & USA/South America schedule connections via AMS and long haul with QR.

Given all the focus on the environment lately, if I was CWL's marketing team i'd be focusing on people flying from their local Airport on routes currently available, not adding to traffic and driving far and wide. There hasn't been a big "Fly local" compaign for a long time, and it can now incorporate an environmental focus.
 

Jerry

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Unfortunately though people's perception of the airport will be that it's just stagnating and well failing if it fails to attract any new routes or regain any lost routes and not attract new carriers even if it's filling the flights that it has and many will just see it as a waste of public money, which many already do. Unfortunately the welsh public won't except Cardiff for the airport it is and expect it to be more like Bristol.
Trying to tell people that CWL has a decent route network ends up with people laughing at you unfortunately!
 

Foxlimayankee

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Because not enough is being done by the Airport to change those perceptions. Those perceptions are often expressed on social media, but there has been a noticeable change in that many people do now counter the negativity with positive responses about the Airport.
The basics of any marketing campaign is to get the point across, regardless of the reactions to it, you can't please everyone. If CWL really pushed what is currently available and start to play on current events like the environmental impacts of travelling further distances for flights, then it will go in their favour and make people think "You know what, I did read something about XXX, I might look at Cardiff as well as Bristol this time", rather than just heading straight for EZY or FR's website.
Also now that Hays travel has a presence in the area, not previously known, it will be able to be more impartial to what they offer. Hopefully CWL are already on the case in building relationships with Hays. Then hopefully what we've read before about the like of TUI and TCX pushing BRS/BHX/LGW over CWL will become a less common thing. Hays can also build holidays not just using TUI.
There's a very negative feel lately being expressed on here about CWL and the discussion just seems to be going around in circles. Yes, it's not been a great time, but people need to start thinking positively. Who cares if people laugh, FR haven't built themselves on great customer service, they had a "any publicity is good publicity" approach. The fact that CWL hardly put's anything major out from a marketing perspective (not just specific Airline own campaigns) means people aren't hearing about them, whether it's good or bad.
Bang the drum, show what is on offer, even guilt people into flying locally!
 

Jerry

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The negativity is understandable considering the loss of the Flybe base and Thomas Cook though with the latter it was out of the airport's hands and in a way I suppose the same can be said of the loss of the Flybe base and Ryanair's Tenerife route. Though the airport has attracted a new airline as well during this period in Loganair.
Marketing wise the airport seems to mainly keep themselves to Twitter with an add lately promoting the Malta route for winter which should've been done a while ago in my opinion and they have done a sponsored article with Wales online about Bulgaria with Balkan holidays.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Aren't a lot of people negative about their local airport, wherever it might be? Whenever BRS is featured in the local press you can bet there will be more complaints, moans and general running down than positive opinions in the newspaper website comments section. 'Micky Mouse airport', 'Trumpton International', 'an airstrip in a field', and 'money-grabbing foreign owners' are common epithets and insults. As with people who whinge about Ryanair most will still use the airport they moan about if it suits them to do so.

It's fashionable for airports to flag up climate change and shorter journeys to the nearest airport, but CWL needs a lot more passengers from outside its core catchment if it is to grow in line with its ambition and they would in most cases arrive by surface transport, especially be car.

I'm not condemning that, simply pointing it out.
 

Jerry

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TheLocalYokel

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A better way to inspire tourism into Wales would be to get some of the airlines flying into T3 to fly directly to Wales! Some flights from Delta or Virgin or American or Finnair or Qantas or Cathay Pacific or British Airways well maybe that last one is a bit ambitious! :) :)
The link tells me the page doesn't exist but I found the story via a Google search.

I suppose the Welsh gate room is in the gift of the airport whereas airlines have to be persuaded to operate flights.

I wonder if Scotland or any region of England has a similar facility. Heathrow's press statement says the airport “is for the whole of the UK and we are very proud to showcase some of the most beautiful destinations outside of the south-east corner." Whether or not that is the case those responsible for arranging this Welsh gate room deserve a great deal of credit.

The Heathrow press statement continues:

"The Welsh gate room comes as Heathrow expansion prepares to open better connections from Wales to the rest of the globe, with up to 40 new long-haul routes from Heathrow – enhanced by the Western Rail link that is backed by the Welsh Assembly. That means more visitors to Wales, more destinations for Welsh tourists and more opportunity for Welsh businesses to reach new export markets."

"The opening of the gateroom builds on the partnership forged between the Welsh Government and Heathrow, symbolised by a Statement of Intent signed in March 2017 which sets out Heathrow’s commitment to Wales and establishing a strategic partnership between Cardiff and Heathrow Airports."

"An expanded Heathrow will create thousands of jobs and billions of pounds in economic growth to Wales, providing new opportunities to people from every part of the country."

I can't remember the details of the strategic partnership between CWL and LHR that was established in 2017 but it might point to an acceptance that Wales will have to rely on LHR for most of its long-haul visitors, whether for leisure or business.
 

Jerry

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I can't remember the details of the strategic partnership between CWL and LHR that was established in 2017 but it might point to an acceptance that Wales will have to rely on LHR for most of its long-haul visitors, whether for leisure or business.
The partnership was between Heathrow and the Welsh government and I think a lot of it was about basing a R3 construction hub in the country.
The sad reality is that Wales is dependent on Heathrow for most long haul and a large amount of European inbound tourism.
I find it interesting that Terminal 3 was chosen and not Terminal 5 which is BAs home and I'd have thought would see the most inbound tourism to Wales coming through it.
 

TheLocalYokel

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The partnership was between Heathrow and the Welsh government and I think a lot of it was about basing a R3 construction hub in the country.
The sad reality is that Wales is dependent on Heathrow for most long haul and a large amount of European inbound tourism.
I find it interesting that Terminal 3 was chosen and not Terminal 5 which is BAs home and I'd have thought would see the most inbound tourism to Wales coming through it.
The last I read about runway 3 construction hubs was that the original 121 in the list were whittled down by degrees to 18 from which the final four would be selected. I've just checked and find that there are two Welsh locations in the 18 - Tata Steel, Deeside and ABP Port, Cardiff. I'm not aware if the chosen four have yet been announced.

I used terminal 3 last year with Emirates. It seems to handle Oneworld and a couple of Skyteam airlines plus some non-aligned such as Emirates. No doubt a wide selection of worldwide passengers arrive and depart via terminal 3.
 

Jerry

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I used terminal 3 last year with Emirates. It seems to handle Oneworld and a couple of Skyteam airlines plus some non-aligned such as Emirates. No doubt a wide selection of worldwide passengers arrive and depart via terminal 3.
I always thought Emirates was Terminal 2 for some reason.
It is possible that by putting it in T3 they may feel it would have a more widespread reach than with just one airline? What I do think is key though with any sort of tourism advertising for Wales is getting people to spend all their holiday in Wales making Wales the destination rather than just part of the trip.
 

superking

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When it used BA from Orlando into LHR,we sat on the taxi way for 45 mins as stand we wanted was filled with a AA flight running late.BA used terminal 3 for 4 destinations.
 

superking

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How long is it till the trains from Wales and west with first great western start calling at LHR.
 

superking

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There is a good coach service from Gatwick and LHR to Wales and West. Im sure Swansea and Cardiff get a separate service.
 

Carl0927

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Unfortunately though people's perception of the airport will be that it's just stagnating and well failing if it fails to attract any new routes or regain any lost routes and not attract new carriers even if it's filling the flights that it has and many will just see it as a waste of public money, which many already do. Unfortunately the welsh public won't except Cardiff for the airport it is and expect it to be more like Bristol.
Trying to tell people that CWL has a decent route network ends up with people laughing at you unfortunately!
Its similar in the NW people compare LPL and MAN airports, i suppose its going to happen but they are both very different animals. We arent going to see an Emirates A380 at Liverpool, but that doesnt mean it doesnt have its part to play. People have short memories , i can recall at one time there were basically Irish Sea routes and thats about it.
 

TheLocalYokel

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What CWL really needs is a flight to LHR.
Unfortunately it's just too close to it.
Wasn't CWL one of the domestic routes that the LHR CEO said would be operated if runway 3 goes ahead? He would still have to find an airline willing and able to operate the route though.


How long is it till the trains from Wales and west with first great western start calling at LHR.
I tried to link the relevant bit on the Network Rail website but the link failed.

Briefly then, the DfT asked Network Rail to develop plans for a 6.5 kilometre rail spur from the GWR mainline into LHR. A public consultation was held in 2018 and all responses have now been analysed. Public information events will be held next month.

A Development Consent Order application will subsequently be finalised and submitted to the Planning Inspectorate. This will seek the required consent to build the new railway in line with the plans that have been developed, with a final decision by the Secretary of State for Transport.
 

Jerry

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Its similar in the NW people compare LPL and MAN airports, i suppose its going to happen but they are both very different animals. We arent going to see an Emirates A380 at Liverpool, but that doesnt mean it doesnt have its part to play. People have short memories , i can recall at one time there were basically Irish Sea routes and thats about it.
For a small airport Cardiff does seem to have a lot of expectation on it.
 
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