Potential Routes

[Jerry]

Well considering United, Delta and American all class EWR and JFK as hubs i think he could be wrong. Yes ATL and ORD are better hubs but they don't have the O&D traffic an NYC route would have.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/first-minister-say-long-haul-13871788

And there was me saying the other day that Carwyn Jones had taken heed and left comments about CWL to the aviation professionals at the airport.

He's back spouting as much nonsense on the subject as he ever did. I note his acolyte Sion Barry is the author.

CWL is best placed airport in western Britain for expansion he says. Has he never heard of Manchester Airport that could double in size? Is the FM suggesting that CWL could be in the market for those sorts of passenger figures?

He reiterates that he wants private sector involvement in the airport but says again that he wants the government to keep a controlling interest. I well remember just before Christmas 2012 when the news broke that the WG was in advanced negotiations to purchase CWL. The next day the FM was interviewed on Radio Wales and set out his vision in some detail. He said he would be seeking private sector involvement (he didn't say then that the government would retain a controlling interest) but in such a way that the tax payer would be in a win-win situation. He envisaged a situation where the private sector partner would share in profits with the WG but would be solely responsible for any losses. The interviewer seemed to regard the comment with barely concealed incredulity, as I did. In fact, I listened to that part of the interview more than once to make sure I hadn't misheard.

Unsurprisingly the WG was unable to find a private sector partner on those terms and hasn't found one since, although I've not heard or read anything recently to suggest that any private sector partner would be hamstrung in that way.

As to his comments about New York not being a hub, I won't waste time saying anything. I'll merely say - politely - that he is not well informed.

In fairness, his administration did take the controversial (to some) decision to purchase CWL which might well have been a life-saver for the airport, given the way the previous owners were running it and with no private sector purchaser seemingly interested.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Easyjet Switzerland Geneva begins December 2018 was added to the Cardiff Airport Wikipedia page and taken down twice.I know it's wiki but it seems oddly specific to me. Definitely one to keep an eye on as an Easyjet route would be a big coup for the airport. Credit to WAF for the info.

I wouldn't be surprised. Bournemouth has had an easyJet ski season link with GVA for a number of years and it's less than half as busy as CWL. Southampton is getting one this winter and Birmingham also has one. All operated by easyJet Switzerland. BHX also has BFS and GNB (seasonal) op by easyJet. LBA also had an easyJet GVA route but it was axed.

CWL shouldn't have any problem if easyJet came along even with Flybe operating to GVA in the ski season. BRS has 22 weekly easyJet GVA rotations in the ski season, including six on some Saturdays, one of them op by easyJet Switzerland plus two weekly charter flights. GVA is a big ski season market.

 

[Jerry]

I wouldn't be surprised. Bournemouth has had an easyJet ski season link with GVA for a number of years and it's less than half as busy as CWL. Southampton is getting one this winter and Birmingham also has one. All operated by easyJet Switzerland. BHX also has BFS and GNB (seasonal) op by easyJet. LBA also had an easyJet GVA route but it was axed.

Would be nice to see an Easyjet route at the airport. I've always been surprised that Flybe hasn't increased Geneva or run it as a year round route. Maybe they have problems getting slots? If EZY do launch the route then i hope they extend it into the summer as a Lakes and Mountains destination.

 

[Coathanger16]

CWL is best placed airport in western Britain for expansion he says. Has he never heard of Manchester Airport that could double in size? Is the FM suggesting that CWL could be in the market for those sorts of passenger figures?

This is the problem with the UK being a narrow country East to West. What counts as Western Britain? I personally wouldn't count Manchester as being Western but more Northern England.

Personally I would picture Western Britain as drawing a line from the Isle of Man to the Isle of White and anything to the West of that is Western Britain. This would cover Bristol, Cardiff, Exeter and Newquay airports. Out of those which is best placed for expansion? I'd argue each of them have got good prospects for expansion.

Bristol is the largest - largest based airline is easyJet whom seem to be committed to regular expansion at their bases. If the runway can be extended then long haul prospects look good.

Cardiff serves the capital of Wales. Qatar are launching a route next Spring. With or without APD being devolved I imagine there's enough demand for say Ryanair to expand their presence.

Exeter is the primary airport for Devon, Cornwall and parts of Somerset and Dorset - an area of the country with a relatively large population. If Flybe were ever to commit more to longer distance European cities and sun routes, the airport could see quite an increase in passengers.

Newquay - whilst big airline expansion there is unlikely, it is shortlisted as being a potential site for a UK "spaceport".

Sounds like they've all got pretty good prospects for expansion. If I had to pick one as being best placed I'd likely say Bristol as its the largest (by both passengers and route network). However aviation is hard to predict over any meaningful time period so who can say what will happen.

As to his comments about New York not being a hub, I won't waste time saying anything. I'll merely say - politely - that he is not well informed.

I quite agree. Yes there a better connected hubs in the US, but Delta and United hubs at JFK and EWR respectively offer connections to enough US cities.

 

[Jerry]

CWL is best placed airport in western Britain for expansion he says.

But what sort of expansion? Possibly some more long haul routes? A Thomas Cook aircraft and year round base, more TUI routes or a 3rd aircraft. A bigger Flybe base and maybe a based LCC. That's the only realistic expansion i can see. I don't understand his thinking on that.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

This is where I think CWL needs to think outside the box. Even if FR do base or increase, I can only really see sun routes. Same with TUI and TCX. That's all taking Welsh out of Wales and not beneficial to the economy.
BE are probably a mix of outbound and inbound tourism, but i think BE are best placed to play the role in a route structure beneficial to inbound tourism and business. I do think the route network will continue to grow but I'm also sceptical if BE will take too many risks given their current situation and potential restrictions on aircraft(jet) availability.
A lot banks on QR being a success. I don' think the route will actually be allowed to fail but if it's undoubtedly a success then that could well encourage another long haul Airline. Only time will tell on that one.
What would be great is better connectivity being offered. BE is unlikely to codeshare on the German routes where BM already codeshare with LH. There' scope to codeshare on Italian routes and maybe extra French routes. The issue there is lack of frequency and BE's aircraft are probably too big to sustain increased frequencies. Could Eastern be coaxed into using their jets as part of the franchise setting them up to compete with BM?
MAD would be good for BE and codeshare with IB.
What CWL needs is cooperation between it' airlines, maybe even a minihub setup from BE on a smaller scale to MAN and BHX.

 

[Jerry]

but i think BE are best placed to play the role in a route structure beneficial to inbound tourism and business.

If you look at BE then lately their new route focus has been on leisure routes to Italy, i'd be surprised if we got anymore German routes but maybe they would look at Eastern Europe to try and encourage inbound tourism from there and also Madrid like you mentioned as it's looking less likely Iberia Express will return. Flybe does codeshare with Alitalia on Milan so maybe that could be extended on the other routes or maybe they can look at codesharing with Qatar owned Meridiana (soon to be Air Italy) as well.

Does Eastern have the availability for it's jets to base one at CWL? The E170s are occupied and apart from the Airbus corporate shuttle i'm not sure what they E145s do. Maybe if they had one of them spare they could look at German routes and other European routes geared more to business.

I've heard about CWL becoming a mini hub before it was mentioned elsewhere that CWL could look at becoming an access point to the rest of the UK.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

This is the problem with the UK being a narrow country East to West. What counts as Western Britain? I personally wouldn't count Manchester as being Western but more Northern England.

Personally I would picture Western Britain as drawing a line from the Isle of Man to the Isle of White and anything to the West of that is Western Britain. This would cover Bristol, Cardiff, Exeter and Newquay airports. Out of those which is best placed for expansion? I'd argue each of them have got good prospects for expansion.

The FM was using 'Western Britain' as a code for the area covered by BRS and CWL. He's really saying that he believes that CWL is better placed than BRS for future development because the latter has night restrictions and a major obstacle in the form of a partly-protected common standing in the way of a meaningful runway extension.

It's not the first time he's said this sort of thing and it's a continuation of the battle of words between the proponents of the two airports.

I only drew attention to the Western Britain thing, partly tongue in cheek, to suggest that if the FM is going to talk about the situation obliquely he should not use language that could be misconstrued. Of course Manchester is in the North but it's also in the North West, as Bristol is in the South it's also in the South West.

 

[Severn]

Does Eastern have the availability for it's jets to base one at CWL? The E170s are occupied and apart from the Airbus corporate shuttle i'm not sure what they E145s do. Maybe if they had one of them spare they could look at German routes and other European routes geared more to business.

Unfortunately not for the time being.
Currently one E170 is based in ABZ on the ABZ/EDI/GLA - LSI (Sumburgh) Flybe franchise route and the other E170 is operating for BA Cityflyer out of LCY

Two of the E145s operate out of BRS operating the Airbus shuttle to Chester and Toulouse.
The other E145 is based in Rodez, France operating the PSO route to Paris Orly.

 

[Jerry]

Unfortunately not for the time being.
Currently one E170 is based in ABZ on the ABZ/EDI/GLA - LSI (Sumburgh) Flybe franchise route and the other E170 is operating for BA Cityflyer out of LCY

Two of the E145s operate out of BRS operating the Airbus shuttle to Chester and Toulouse.
The other E145 is based in Rodez, France operating the PSO route to Paris Orly.

The only thing I could see happening is the ABZ E170 being pulled because I've heard the loads aren't very good but I'd be surprised if they based it in CWL.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

The issue with Eastern is that they are prone to open a base one year then close it the next only to re-open it again.

If you read a certain forum you will known that Eastern is not a good place to work due to the management.

If your looking at the E135/E145 aircraft then there is always the opportunity of the Saab 2000 which has 50 seats and probably more economical to operate.

In reality can't see Eastern adding anything new unless they used the gaps on the current aircraft operating the VLY which would require additional crew.

 

[Jerry]

According to a poster on WAF Virgin Holidays have opened a new standalone store in Cardiff city centre (i believe they have a store in House of Fraser). Though it's hardly likely to lead to lead to any routes, though it would be great if they launched Orlando, i do wonder if they will look at offering packages direct from Cardiff using for the Far East using Qatar's flights and maybe Orlando via Amsterdam using KLM and Orlando.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

Virgin Atlantic have had an affiliation with South Wales for a while.

They took on the Travel City Swansea team after they entered administration and are still going strong (unsure if in the same building still).

For well over 12 months they also had a call centre in Cardiff which closed this year. It was outsourced to First Source (Same company that has the Sky conteact).

Travel City Direct used to operate flights to Florida prior to its demise however Virgin Atlantic has never been keen to take on the route since.

Travel Agents these days will do build your own packages and take commission for the privilege so it is highly likely that they will use Qatar, KLM and any other airline that operates from Cardiff but not necessarily in huge numbers.

 

[Jerry]

Would be nice if they took a more direct interest in Cardiff with direct flights but highly unlikely.

 

[Jerry]

The Cardiff Airport twitter account did a poll of it's followers. The question was If you could go on one of the following winter day trips which would you choose? With Gibraltar, Nice, Lisbon and Bruges as the choices.
The results were Lisbon 29%, Bruges 26%, Gibraltar 23% and Nice 22% with 372 votes cast.
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/937761910619074561

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I've done the first three but not Nice. They are all first-class destinations in their different ways.

 

[Seasider]

I've done the first three but not Nice. They are all first-class destinations in their different ways.

You should go and catch the train to Monte Carlo - rub shoulders with the "Hoi Polloi"

 

[Jerry]

I've done the first three but not Nice. They are all first-class destinations in their different ways.

Just over 2 years ago i did a med cruise with Royal Caribbean and one of the stops was Cannes with a day trip to Monaco. We drove through Nice on the way and back looked a nice enough place. The only part of Monaco that i liked was the old part I wasn't that fussed on the new part.
Nice would make an excellent addition to the departures board at CWL. If Flybe started to introduce Southern France routes at CWL in the future I'd imagine it would be high on the list.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I seem to remember someone posting that Cardiff were chasing a New York link?

If so this may be interesting.

Primera also plans to fly from Stansted and Birmingham to Spain and plans more UK bases.

http://impactpub.com.au/micebtn/85-...ansatlantic-flights-will-use-primary-airports