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TheLocalYokel

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Jan 14, 2009
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Yes

The First Minister says he will ban visitors from high risk areas in England and Scotland from entering Wales as of this Friday. The linked BBC report says it is not clear whether this includes essential travel such as entering Wales from those parts of England and Scotland for work.

I believe that in the high risk areas of Wales the WG allows people to leave for such such things as work and education, including presumably travelling into England for such purposes.

Tensions appear to be rising with some politicians condemning some of the language being used.
 

Cambrian

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Oct 14, 2018
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How do you control movement. Police could stop every vehicle entering Wales but that is impracticable. If you arrive by train or coach , will you have to go through some form of checks at the train or coach terminals. Seems to me like gesture politics, something that looks good for the daily press briefing but will be impossible to implement.
 

TheLocalYokel

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How do you control movement. Police could stop every vehicle entering Wales but that is impracticable. If you arrive by train or coach , will you have to go through some form of checks at the train or coach terminals. Seems to me like gesture politics, something that looks good for the daily press briefing but will be impossible to implement.
If people don't want to co-operate then many will do their own thing. That's been the case with all the legal restrictions and guidelines throughout the UK from the beginning of the pandemic and relatively few people are brought to account.
 

Jerry

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The police will be on extra lookout through the use of ANPR cameras.
As for trains I'm sure the transport police will be able to check tickets and determine whether your travel is essential. In the end it's designed as a deterrent and just brings in line with the restrictions Welsh people already have to operate under.
 

TheLocalYokel

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The police will be on extra lookout through the use of ANPR cameras.
As for trains I'm sure the transport police will be able to check tickets and determine whether your travel is essential. In the end it's designed as a deterrent and just brings in line with the restrictions Welsh people already have to operate under.
Let's hope the police can cope.

With all the extra pandemic-related duties the police have to deal with as well as their normal duties they can only often make token gestures. They don't have the personnel. In my area they have resorted on occasions to using untrained PCSOs' who don't have police powers either to try to deal with large party gatherings in private premises.
 

thunderchild

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Aug 29, 2013
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Lichfield

The First Minister says he will ban visitors from high risk areas in England and Scotland from entering Wales as of this Friday. The linked BBC report says it is not clear whether this includes essential travel such as entering Wales from those parts of England and Scotland for work.

I believe that in the high risk areas of Wales the WG allows people to leave for such such things as work and education, including presumably travelling into England for such purposes.

Tensions appear to be rising with some politicians condemning some of the language being used.
Surely if that’s the case then it should work the other way as South Wales has much higher cases than in South West England? Sadly the political oneupmanship is rapidly spiralling out of control.
 

Jerry

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Surely if that’s the case then it should work the other way as South Wales has much higher cases than in South West England? Sadly the political oneupmanship is rapidly spiralling out of control.
It does. If you are in a covid hotspot on lockdown in Wales you can't travel out of it unless it's for essential travel. I'm in Cardiff and i can't travel to CWL or BRS for planespotting nor Ceredigion (which isn't on lockdown) to go to the beach on my days off but i can travel to Bridgend for work. All the WG is doing is applying the same rules that Welsh people have to people travelling into Wales from the rest of the UK if they are in a tier 2 or 3 covid hotspot because they have evidence that the virus is being imported to Wales. What has happended though is that the Tories and the right wing and unionist press are branding it as anti-english and exaggerating saying that the border has been sealed for political gain. In many cases they are down right lieing on social media. The reality is that the WG priority is the health of the people of Wales.
 

thunderchild

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Aug 29, 2013
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It does. If you are in a covid hotspot on lockdown in Wales you can't travel out of it unless it's for essential travel. I'm in Cardiff and i can't travel to CWL or BRS for planespotting nor Ceredigion (which isn't on lockdown) to go to the beach on my days off but i can travel to Bridgend for work. All the WG is doing is applying the same rules that Welsh people have to people travelling into Wales from the rest of the UK if they are in a tier 2 or 3 covid hotspot because they have evidence that the virus is being imported to Wales. What has happended though is that the Tories and the right wing and unionist press are branding it as anti-english and exaggerating saying that the border has been sealed for political gain. In many cases they are down right lieing on social media. The reality is that the WG priority is the health of the people of Wales.
Surely if your in Tier 3 (and arguably Tier 2) then you shouldn’t be travelling anywhere anyway unless for work/essential travel? I must admit I’ve given up watching or reading the news, it’s too depressing so I’m not 100% clear on what all the new restrictions are. We’re in Tier 1 (for now) and as work and home are both in the same Tier it’s fairly straightforward.
 

Jerry

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Surely if your in Tier 3 (and arguably Tier 2) then you shouldn’t be travelling anywhere anyway unless for work/essential travel?
The English are only advised that people not travel, it's not mandatory like it is for the Welsh hence why WG changed the rules to include the rest of the UK. The WG requested UK government change the rules in England but they just ignored the letters that were sent.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Can someone living in a non-hot spot area in Wales (say Ceredigion) travel to a tier 2 or 3 area in England for non-essential purposes? I'm not thinking of the advisability of it or government advice, but whether it would be against the law in Wales for someone to do so. If it's not against the law in Wales I wonder if such a person would be allowed to return home to Ceredigion after their visit to the tier 2 or 3 area in England.
 

Jerry

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Can someone living in a non-hot spot area in Wales (say Ceredigion) travel to a tier 2 or 3 area in England for non-essential purposes? I'm not thinking of the advisability of it or government advice, but whether it would be against the law in Wales for someone to do so. If it's not against the law in Wales I wonder if such a person would be allowed to return home to Ceredigion after their visit to the tier 2 or 3 area in England.
I would say no.
 

superking

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Feb 14, 2013
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I wonder how they will police it. It will mean a lot of work for someone, and the police have not got the manpower. The only way is to set road blocks every where with soldiers manning them.Looks like its getting more like a police state than any thing else.I have a ex work mate that lives in Abertillery and works in Avonmouth and hes been stopped once asking all the usual questions,but hes been ok as work related.This stop was early friday morning.My view is put every one in lock down for 3 weeks and then go from there. With the rules in place now,no one knows where they are with different rules in many places.
 

aviatorconcorde

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Feb 1, 2018
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South East Wales
They aren’t going to be able too. That’s the thing. Sure they’ll catch the odd person and then use those examples as a deterent. No doubt it will pop up on the BBC in the coming weeks.

lets be honest, they can’t enforce the 14 day quarantine and the person is supposed to be at home the whole time.
 

Jerry

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I wonder how they will police it. It will mean a lot of work for someone, and the police have not got the manpower. The only way is to set road blocks every where with soldiers manning them.Looks like its getting more like a police state than any thing else.I have a ex work mate that lives in Abertillery and works in Avonmouth and hes been stopped once asking all the usual questions,but hes been ok as work related.This stop was early friday morning.My view is put every one in lock down for 3 weeks and then go from there. With the rules in place now,no one knows where they are with different rules in many places.
If Wales was an independent country then it would have a border force of its own and the ability to deploy troops to assist in manning the border but as part of the UK it doesn't have those tools available so it'll be a policing operation most likely using traffic cops with ANPR. The idea is that it's a deterrent to put people off travelling from the hotspots.
 

KARFA

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Jun 3, 2014
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Can someone living in a non-hot spot area in Wales (say Ceredigion) travel to a tier 2 or 3 area in England for non-essential purposes?
No, the restrictions go both ways. The new law regarding travel restrictions for Wales which came in to force yesterday means:

- No person living in an area, without a reasonable excuse, enter or remain in a part of Wales. It is not a reasonable excuse for a person to enter or remain in Wales to do anything if it would be reasonably practicable to do that thing outside Wales.

- No person living in a part of Wales may, without a reasonable excuse, leave Wales for the purpose of entering an area. It is not a reasonable excuse for a person to leave Wales for the purpose of entering any area listed below to do anything if it would be reasonably practicable for the person to do that thing somewhere else.

A non-exhaustive list of what may be considered a reasonable excuse is included, and some examples are:
- obtaining food & medical supplies
- work where it is not reasonably practicable to carry out the work outside the area
- attending marriages and funerals
- access educational services
- travel to reach a place outside the area.

The area is essentially all Tier 2 and 3 in England and all central belt areas in Scotland currently under increased restrictions.

Local lockdown areas already in place in Wales have additional movement restrictions.

Also just to clarify, none of the Tiers in England or the increased restriction areas in Scotland include any restrictions relating to travel within the areas, or in/out of the areas.
 

TheLocalYokel

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Yes
If Wales was an independent country then it would have a border force of its own and the ability to deploy troops to assist in manning the border but as part of the UK it doesn't have those tools available so it'll be a policing operation most likely using traffic cops with ANPR. The idea is that it's a deterrent to put people off travelling from the hotspots.
I wonder what size army and border force an independent Wales would have. The Irish and British Armies plus the Garda Siochana and Royal Ulster Constabulary struggled to effectively contain cross-border incursions in a relatively small area of the north-western part of the island of Ireland during the height of 'The Troubles'.

Incidentally, one of our grandsons and his Australian girlfriend completed their 14-day quarantine in England today having returned from Australia via Qatar with the ME change of aircraft the reason they had to quarantine. They were not contacted once by 'officialdom' during the two weeks of their quarantine. Our son and daughter-in-law are also in quarantine in England, now in their eighth day, having returned from Turkey and they are yet to be contacted.

These are more examples of the sheer enormity of the situation overwhelming the state's 'machinery' with many of those who decide to ignore the rules being unlikely to be discovered.
 

Jerry

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I wonder what size army and border force an independent Wales would have.
From what I've seen written about the subject the consensus is that it would be brigade sized army formed around 3 to 4 battalions of infantry.
I haven't seen anything written about a border force. I'd imagine that it's size would depend on how hard the border with England would be, as the harder the border the more checkpoints required equalling more manpower.
It would be a tricky border to police no doubt as it's 160 miles long.

I watched a video from a vlogger living in Canada but who was from the Netherlands and had returned from Holland as he'd visited family there and had to isolate for 14 day's and he was phoned several times by the Canadian government and the Albertan government checking he was complying with isolation. UK government just doesn't seem organised enough.
 

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