Random Stuff!!

[Jerry]

I think this forum has become just sycophantic to whatever CWL management and the WG do and am not sure my contributions add anything so I am out from here.

Sorry to hear that. I like to think that we welcome all contributions to the discussion from all sides about the airport and other things in Wales like the WG.

 

[Jerry]

Work on the South Wales Metro rail project to start next month

The £734m project is expected to take three years to complete

www.business-live.co.uk

 

[Darby]

I’m sorry that Tom has decided to leave, I don’t agree with everything he posts,but he has extensive knowledge of the aviation industry. Unfortunately this part of the forum has become far too political. In my experience most politicians start off with good intentions, but when they see the size of the trough they all put their snouts in to get as much as possible out.

 

[Jerry]

Interesting idea!

Water taxi plan for Cardiff to Bristol green energy ferry

Two boats could soon start running between Wales and England, with other routes on the horizon.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Interesting idea!

Water taxi plan for Cardiff to Bristol green energy ferry

Two boats could soon start running between Wales and England, with other routes on the horizon.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don't know who the operators have in mind when it comes to finding people to use the service. Most commuters would surely continue using the train service which is three an hour (or was prior to Covid-19 - I don't know the current situation) or the M4 which is well used between the two cities (and when the Boris-inspired M4 relief road gets the go-ahead it will be even better ).

I can't think that this ferry would be quicker than the train or road, especially as it would have to negotiate the seven-mile length of the River Avon from Avonmouth to the Bristol city centre through the locks at the Cumberland Basin.

I suppose they are looking at tourists in the main. I wonder how much market research they have done.

This 'plan' was discussed in the BRS Random thread a few weeks ago when it was pointed out that the Bristol city council funded an experimental hydrogen-powered boat a few years ago that was used by one of the Harbourside ferry companies. After the year's experiment the boat was left tied up at the quayside for a long time, then quietly disappeared.

 

[Jerry]

There is a lot of questions. I suppose that there main target would be people who take the train but I can't see it being more quicker or frequent especially as at both ends they'd have to navigate harbour gates and with the Avon the tide could be a factor, I know Cardiff has a water taxi berth but I'm not sure about Bristol. And that's not to mention the Severn sea itself as the boat looks like a 'fast ferry and there will be certain conditions that it won't be able to operate in I'd have thought. It was also mentioned that they were going to look at a 700 passenger ferry from Ilfracombe to Newport and Cardiff.
If it does go ahead it might be worth a look for a trip report for my channel! Definitely something different!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'm guessing that the city centres at both ends would be the least of their problems. Cardiff has its water taxi berth and the Bristol Harbourside has two ferry companies that operate to timetables between Temple Meads station and the Cumberland Basin via the city centre with a number of dedicated ferry stops en route. There is also a tour boat company that does operate along the Avon as far as Avonmouth (and to Bath in the other direction) but, as you point out, the Avon is tidal and the huge rise and fall in the Bristol Channel has a significant effect on the river.

For many, many years there was a company called P & A Campbell with its White Funnel fleet of paddle steamers that operated in the Bristol Channel callling at ports on both the English and Welsh sides from Bristol all the way to Ilfracombe. People of my generation will remember the 'Campbell steamers' from their childhood. Living near Weston-super-Mare at the time my parents would sometimes take my brother and me when we were at junior school on a Campbells steamer from Weston's 'Old Pier' (Birnbeck) to Barry Island where we would go to the funfair.

I remember some of the steamer names, Glen Usk, Glen Gower and the two 'modern ships' of the time, the Cardiff Queen and the Bristol Queen.

Sadly, Campbells eventually went out of business and for many years afterwards the Channel was served in summer by the paddle steamer Waverley (which is based in Scotland and operated in South West Britain for part of each summer) and the MV Balmoral that started life as an Isle of Wight ferry.

Both vessels are owned by charities and need a lot of money spending on them. Neither sailed last summer although there might be more hope for the Waverley than the Balmoral which has been berthed in the Bristol Harbourside for the past 2-3 years, albeit volunteers can often be seen working on her.






.

 

[Cambrian]

TLY, two other Campbells steamers were the Ravenswood and the Britannia. There was also a non paddler that sailed the south coast for a season or two, but I cannot recall the name. As for a service between Cardiff and Bristol, it might work as a tourist attraction but I cannot see it working as a regular means of transport between the two cities.

 

[Jerry]

As an idea I think it sounds good but I suspect the practical side may well mean it won't work and if you target tourism that'll only be seasonal and the cost of the boats may well mean it needs commuters all year round to help fill it.

 

[superking]

They also ran cruises from the west welsh coast from Aberystwyth with 1 vessel. I cant remember the name of the vessel used. It did not venture into the Bristol channel. There was also a paddler named glen avon. In its hey day Campbells had a fair sized fleet,always seen them up and down the channel. Sunday was always a busy day for them as they used to bring passengers from Barry and Cardiff to Weston Super Mare to have a drink as Wales was dry with no pubs open on that day.

 

[superking]

If they wanted to run services into Bristol then the only thing that might work would be a hovercraft,at least it wont be tide restricted.

 

[Sean123]

Bring back the Aust ferry

 

[TheLocalYokel]

TLY, two other Campbells steamers were the Ravenswood and the Britannia. There was also a non paddler that sailed the south coast for a season or two, but I cannot recall the name. As for a service between Cardiff and Bristol, it might work as a tourist attraction but I cannot see it working as a regular means of transport between the two cities.

I recall the names but when we sailed on the White Funnel fleet we always seemed to be on the Bristol Queen or the Cardiff Queen, invariaby to Barry Island for the funfair (a magnet for my brother and me and I think my father enjoyed it too) from either Weston Birnbeck Pier or from Bristol (the old landing stage next to the A4 Portway, just to the city side of the Suspension Bridge.

The MV Balmoral joined the Campbell fleet late in the company's existence (went out of business around 1979). My wife and our kids used it in the summer of 1976 (that very hot summer!) to go from Ilfracombe to Lundy. Whether the Balmoral also sailed the English south coast for Campbells I don't know. At that time its port of registry was Southampton - I did a lot of cine filming in those days and one shot is of the rear of the vessel before we boarded at Ilfracombe.

My wife and I also sailed on the Balmoral about 30 years ago from Clevedon via Penarth to Ilfracombe and back the same way, except the return was extended to Bristol because the tide was favourable. We went up the Avon in the dark which was an experience as they had to be pretty nippy going around the Horseshoe Bend to avoid being pushed onto the river bank by the tricky current movements.

They also ran cruises from the west welsh coast from Aberystwyth with 1 vessel. I cant remember the name of the vessel used. It did not venture into the Bristol channel. There was also a paddler named glen avon. In its hey day Campbells had a fair sized fleet,always seen them up and down the channel. Sunday was always a busy day for them as they used to bring passengers from Barry and Cardiff to Weston Super Mare to have a drink as Wales was dry with no pubs open on that day.

Was west/north-west Wales vessel the MV St Trillo?

I remember the Sunday 'booze trips'.

I'm not sure if it was on a Sunday but in the early days of the tv show Candid Camera (early 60s I should think) the team set up an immigration and customs post on Birnbeck Pier as the Campbells steamer arrived from Wales. A man called Jonathan Routh was the leading practical joker and, in his guise as chief immigration inspector, told the disembarking passengers that whilst they had been on the 'high seas' (ie the Severn estuary) Wales had declared independence and they would not be allowed into England without a Welsh passport. One or two fell for it and turned around to get back onto the boat.

If they wanted to run services into Bristol then the only thing that might work would be a hovercraft,at least it wont be tide restricted.

They tried a hovercraft service between Weston and Penarth nearly 60 years ago but it only lasted for a restricted summer season. Pathe News did a piece about it a the time - see below link. A few years ago there were plans for a Burnham-on-Sea to Penarth hovercraft service but I don't think it ever started.

 

[Jerry]

They also ran cruises from the west welsh coast from Aberystwyth with 1 vessel.

They should do a Cardiff to Aber ferry! Be quicker than car or train! Lol

 

[superking]

The Balmpral was a car/passenger ferry running between Southampton and Cowes on the Isle of Wight for many years.
Back about 8 years ago there was a firm bought a hydrofoil from red funnel Southampton. The hydrofoil was delivered to Swansea. The service as i remember was Minehead and Ilfracombe,but i have Clevedon in my head from some where. The Welsh ports were to be Barry and Cardiff. The company and all the news about it dropped off the radar and never to be heard of since. I dont know what happened to the hydrofoil that was in Swansea docks.
Sunday was the booze cruise day as the pubs in Wales did not open on sundays.
I think this has been nice as it brings Wales and England into play and it stirs up many memories.

 

[geoff]

I have been thinking of the loss of FlyBE at CWL,and CWL seems to be one of the very few airports that has had no replacement airlines or routes whatsoever to take the place of FlyBE. Is it the influence of Easyjet and FR at Bristol, which is stopping the smaller airlines taking the plunge at CWL, surely with around 500k passengers looking for flights they previously used from CWL, there must be an opportunity for one of the smaller airlines at CWL. I am sure the management are trying very hard to replace the services, and I appreciate the financial predicament airlines find themselves in at the moment, but sometimes one has to speculate to ensure ones future.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

Well they did have have replacements in Edinburgh and Glasgow but COVID-19 put an end to that

 

[Jerry]

Also I think other airlines that they would turn to seem to be concentrating on filling the voids at Southampton, Exeter and Jersey. CWL doesn't really seem to be a priority for any airlines at the moment so it's probably going to take a while to regain the core Flybe routes sadly

 

[geoff]

I think Loganair said that they would be unable to make the routes profitable even if Covid-19 hadn't taken place, partly because of the influence of the larger airlines at BRS, and Easyjet's announcement of increased frequency on the routes.

 

[Jerry]

I think Loganair said that they would be unable to make the routes profitable even if Covid-19 hadn't taken place, partly because of the influence of the larger airlines at BRS, and Easyjet's announcement of increased frequency on the routes.

They did but we'll probably not know whether that is the real reason or not. I believe in the same article that they mentioned some airport's were more helpful than others though they didn't mention Cardiff but given the airport's track record of helping airlines maybe Loganair wasn't offered help or offered what they thought was enough? I doubt we'll ever know what really happened.
It is worth noting that they will continue to operate to Exeter 1 daily flight and the minimum fare seems to be £85 EXT-EDI and £75 EDI-EXT. Exeter too even if more profitable as suggested elsewhere will still be effected by that large capacity at Bristol from EasyJet.

It's also quite possible that as a Scottish airline Loganair is looking from a Scottish point of view and the tendency of how many Scots use the route and where they travel too rather than looking at it from the Welsh side like we do. It's just a thought.