Random Stuff!!

[Jerry]

Welsh Labour entertaining the prospect of independence or just using it as a weapon against Westminster? Not sure he threatened a referendum specifically though.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1458252/Welsh-independence-latest-Wales-news-Boris-Johnson-senedd-cymru/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Welsh independence 'on the table' if relationship between UK nations breaks down says minister

Independence is “on the table” if the relationship between the nations of the UK breaks down to the point where people no longer see a purpose to the Union, according to a Welsh Government cabinet member. Mick Antoniw, Minister for the Constitution, told Sunday Supplement that “we are facing a...

nation.cymru

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Welsh Labour entertaining the prospect of independence or just using it as a weapon against Westminster? Not sure he threatened a referendum specifically though.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1458252/Welsh-independence-latest-Wales-news-Boris-Johnson-senedd-cymru/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Welsh independence 'on the table' if relationship between UK nations breaks down says minister

Independence is “on the table” if the relationship between the nations of the UK breaks down to the point where people no longer see a purpose to the Union, according to a Welsh Government cabinet member. Mick Antoniw, Minister for the Constitution, told Sunday Supplement that “we are facing a...

nation.cymru

The first thing to note is that this was not simply a bald statement from the minister but an answer to a question forming part of the wider subject about which he was being interviewed.

As with nearly all politicians he equivocated to a degree when he said, “I think independence is always on the table if you get to a situation where the relationships between the nations of the UK break down to such an extent that people start questioning what is the purpose of the UK.”

Later he engaged in semantics with a suggestion that ‘independence’ means different things to different people. He said that “Independence for me is about the people of a country being able to choose the sort of governance they want and what their relationship with other countries is. Others will say that independence means separating from, or breaking away from, or different forms of economic arrangements.”

Perhaps it's a gentle nod to both sides (Westminster and the independence movement in Wales) that the WG is capable of pragmatism should they judge the need.

 

[Jerry]

Perhaps it's a gentle nod to both sides (Westminster and the independence movement in Wales) that the WG is capable of pragmatism should they judge the need.

Most of the growth in support for independence has come from Labour supporters and there is a pro independence Labour group working in the background as well so I expect Labour might appear more open to the idea to not just to keep their supporters happy but as a warning to Westminster. I know they want justice and policing devolved so whether they succeed in getting that may well determine which direction they head but they are literally up against UK government that doesn't want to devolve powers and would scrap devolution if they thought they could get away with it so definitely a test of Labour's unionism to come.
Will be interesting to see what comes of this Commission.

Welsh minster outlines plan for ‘commission’ to look at Wales’ future in the UK

A Welsh minster has outlined a plan for a commission to look at Wales’ future relationship with the UK. Mick Antoniw, the Minister for the Constitution, shared the Welsh Government’s intention to establish a Constitutional Convention to “examine the governance of Wales” and “devolution”. In a...

nation.cymru

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Whatever happens in the bickering between the governments - the public have to vote on it and it will be an out right no, for at least the next 5 years, probably 10.

 

[Jerry]

Whatever happens in the bickering between the governments - the public have to vote on it and it will be an out right no, for at least the next 5 years, probably 10.

Not necessarily. If Labour shifted towards independence and put in their manifesto that they wanted an independent Wales and the public voted them into office and combined with Plaid independence had a super majority in the Senedd then a negotiated split could be a possibility even a Unilateral Declaration of independence. Independence doesn't necessarily have to be achieved by referendum alone.

 

[KARFA]

I don’t think any serious person could suggest independence without an explicit referendum. If support for independence really is a majority view in Wales it would be bizarre not to have a referendum in order to affirm democratic legitimacy for it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I don’t think any serious person could suggest independence without an explicit referendum. If support for independence really is a majority view in Wales it would be bizarre not to have a referendum in order to affirm democratic legitimacy for it.

I believe that if there appears to be a groundswell of opinion in Wales or Scotland, that indicates a desire for independence for their respective countries the people should be allowed to confirm or rebut that view through a referendum. The same holds good in respect of England for that matter, although with no devolved government it might be even more difficult to persuade a pro-Union UK Government to agree.

Politicians and others will always argue whether a point has been reached where a referendum is appropriate but I believe that the principle is sound.

How often a referendum should be held - relevant to Scotland at the moment - and whether the UK Government should have the final say on holding one are contentious issues.

 

[Jerry]

I don’t think any serious person could suggest independence without an explicit referendum. If support for independence really is a majority view in Wales it would be bizarre not to have a referendum in order to affirm democratic legitimacy for it.

Most countries achieve independence without a referendum. Wales wouldn't necessarily need a referendum if both governments agreed to Wales becoming independent and if there was a super majority in the Senedd then a UDI would be possible though of course potentially tricky if the international community didn't recognise it or only partly recognise it.
Wales is very different to Scotland as well in that it was conquered and essentially annexed into the Kingdom of England there was no Welsh parliament vote on it like Scotland. Wales is more like a colony.

I believe that if there appears to be a groundswell of opinion in Wales or Scotland, that indicates a desire for independence for their respective countries the people should be allowed to confirm or rebut that view through a referendum.

In the end a referendum would be the most likeliest avenue especially for Scotland but its not necessarily the only avenue especially if the Senedd or Holyrood had a super majority of MS or MSPs for it. But in the end it would be down to the UK government of the time and whether they would be willing to except the mandate of the Parliament and government in question and be willing to negotiate. If a more hostile UK government was in place like now then a referendum would be the most likely option and then they'd have to except the result of that referendum and be willing to negotiate in good faith afterwards.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Not necessarily. If Labour shifted towards independence and put in their manifesto that they wanted an independent Wales and the public voted them into office and combined with Plaid independence had a super majority in the Senedd then a negotiated split could be a possibility even a Unilateral Declaration of independence. Independence doesn't necessarily have to be achieved by referendum alone.

I’m sorry Jerry but i think that’s wishful thinking.
You know that it wouldn’t happen without a referendum.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

I don’t think any serious person could suggest independence without an explicit referendum. If support for independence really is a majority view in Wales it would be bizarre not to have a referendum in order to affirm democratic legitimacy for it.

exactly. And if a pro independence majority was elected to the Senedd, they should have little trouble winning a referendum anyway.

 

[Jerry]

I’m sorry Jerry but i think that’s wishful thinking.
You know that it wouldn’t happen without a referendum.

Most of the colonies never had referendums, Ireland never had one after the rebellion. It depends on the circumstances of course but there could be a future where independence comes through negotiations between Westminster and Cardiff especially if Scotland has left the union by then.

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Most of the colonies never had referendums, Ireland never had one after the rebellion. It depends on the circumstances of course but there could be a future where independence comes through negotiations between Westminster and Cardiff especially if Scotland has left the union by then.

Ireland was in a completely different era and time when most of europe didn’t have democracies. The colonies were also located many thousands of miles from the UK where the country didn’t send politicians to the house of commons, nor were there such strong cultural and family ties between those countries and the UK.

I agree with your second point potentially but there would be no way to know for sure without a referendum. There is a pro independence majority in scotland now and a referendum is still required.

 

[Jerry]

There is a pro independence majority in scotland now and a referendum is still required.

You could say that Scotland is slightly different in its already had a referendum and there's not a super majority in place and the UK government won't let Scotland become independent by negotiation so a referendum is needed.
The Dominion countries had and still do have very big ties to the UK yet are independent countries and no one disputed that not even back in the days of Empire and the fact remains that independence doesn't necessarily have to come about by a referendum.
It's ironic that when Plaid were first formed in 1926 independence wasn't mentioned. The goal was to achieve Dominion status under British rule. Times have definitely changed not by much though because many would be happy with being like New Zealand etc and still have those links to England.

 

[Jerry]

People in Wales have to pay double for private Covid travel tests

Holidaymakers have to take tests before going on holiday and when they return

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[Jerry]

Will be interesting to see if UK government acts on the recommendation to reclassify HS2 to an England only project.

Wales will not benefit from HS2 and needs better north-south rail links, says Westminster committee

Wales will not benefit from HS2 and it should be classified as an England-only project so that Wales’s “Victorian” rail infrastructure can be “substantially enhanced,” according to a Westminster committee. According to the Welsh Affairs Committee, of which the majority of members were elected as...

nation.cymru

 

[Jerry]

"People who have been fully vaccinated will no longer need to self-isolate if they are returning from an amber list country, in line with the position in England and Scotland."

Major easing of Covid rules in Wales - but some to stay until at least August | ITV News

Wales' First Minister has announced a major easing of coronavirus rules from 17 July - but some restrictions will remain in place until at least August. | ITV News Wales

www.itv.com

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Will be interesting to see if UK government acts on the recommendation to reclassify HS2 to an England only project.

Wales will not benefit from HS2 and needs better north-south rail links, says Westminster committee

Wales will not benefit from HS2 and it should be classified as an England-only project so that Wales’s “Victorian” rail infrastructure can be “substantially enhanced,” according to a Westminster committee. According to the Welsh Affairs Committee, of which the majority of members were elected as...

nation.cymru

The Committee urges the UK Government to bring forward proposals – before the end of 2021 – on new proposals for greater connectivity between Swansea, Cardiff and Bristol, which could require completing electrification of the mainline between Cardiff and Swansea.

Can trains run at high speed between Cardiff and Swansea? One of the reasons given by the Westminster government for abandoning the electrification of the western end of the London-Bristol line (ie the section from from West Wiltshire to Bath and Bristol) was that trains could not travel at the full 125 mph on this section and so it would be a waste of public money, despite having spent tens of millions of pounds preparing the track and other infrastructure for electrification including the closure of Brunel's iconic Box Tunnel for six weeks and ignoring the benefits of the much greater acceleration of electric over diesel and the environmental effects of the latter.

So if Cardiff-Swansea was electrified the the last part of the journey to Bristol Temple Meads would still be operated by diesel traction because Temple-Meads-Bristol Parkway electrification was also abandoned.

 

[Jerry]

Can trains run at high speed between Cardiff and Swansea?

75mph for the most part I believe with a 100mph part. I'm sure I read that one of the challenges of that stretch which made it so expensive was that there were a lot bridges that needed to be raised for the electrification.

 

[Jerry]

Why the Prime Minister just delivered a speech for YesCymru

Ifan Morgan Jones No one seemed to have noticed – who listens to these things apart from a few political journalists anyway? – but yesterday the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom stood up and made quite a remarkable speech. The speech was planned in order to launch Boris Johnson’s ‘levelling...

nation.cymru

 

[Em0866]

I see there are 3 charter services to Seychelles from Bristol next year with Air Seychelles on an A320neo. Flights are via Dubai (I presume a refuelling stop). Economy seats are 29 to 30 inch pitch but premium economy and business are also offered. I don't know about anyone else but that's a long time to be cramped in a seat!