Passenger Behaviour During Flights

[Brummiegem]

Following some well publicised incidents,the sale of alcohol at airports is under scrutiny.Some are even suggesting sales should be banned altogether,although restrictions may be more likely.
However I don't know how easy this could be to police.
Sales of duty free I believe could still happen.There is a system currently in use for pax transiting another airport where any liquids are put in sealable bags.This makes the transit through the next airport easier for the passenger,as well as showing the authorities that the products were bought in the airport.
A system where all alcohol is put into a sealable bag at the till and the buyer is told that they cannot open the bag until they get to their final destination.
Alternatively buy as normal,but with the agreement of the airlines,have your alcohol handed over to you at the gate when boarding as they do in other countries such as the USA.Perhaps even handed over when disembarking at the destination.That would take away the temptation to open anything on board the aircraft.
However as we all know it is not so much duty free alcohol that is the problem.It is what is bought and consumed in bars and restaurants that is more of a concern.
Introducing restrictions within the confines of the airport itself however opens up another can of worms.Namely the amount of revenue both the bars,restaurants and therefore the airport itself will lose.
We all know that a visit to the bar is part and parcel of many peoples holiday.Unfortunately there are many who spoil the visit to the airport through drunken behaviour which in extreme cases can lead to violence and/or people getting hurt.
I have seen a number of incidents involving drunken behaviour at BHX over the years.Thankfully only 1 or 2 people have been involved and no-one to my knowledge has been hurt,although some have been taken off flights for their own safety as well as everyone else's.
What do you guys think?
Has anyone witnessed anything,or perhaps feared that something might kick-off?
With many children likely to be present and the airports at their busiest,it is something of a worry for all.We already have security worries,we do not need drunken behaviour to worry about as well.

 

[Ray Finkle]

It's a tough one.

The amount of drunken incidents seems to be on the rise (or are we just hearing about it more?) and it's clearly unacceptable, however, as pointed out there is a huge revenue stream related to the sale of alcohol.

Duty free possibly needs to be controlled more. Purchases going directly to the aircraft to be handed out upon arrival is a good idea but I'm sure that it would mean price rises to cover the costs. Was there not a sealed bag being trialled, one that could only be opened with a sharp implement which would hopefully be unavailable until the destination is reached?

Departure lounge bars is also another tough one. Bar staff can be trained to not serve those under the influence but some hide it better than others. People also have different limits and handle alcohol in different ways, someone who can seem fine one minute can then turn nasty very quickly. Like you say the revenue would also be affected.

I personally like to have a couple of glasses of wine or a couple of beers before flying, it's a sort of tradition that starts the holiday. I know my limits though and drink accordingly.

I've not witnessed any silliness myself although I've been on several flights with groups who have clearly had a few. It's always been good natured and sometimes rather comical. I can imagine it can be very scary when it does turn violent though, especially for those with young families.

I like the approach that Jet2 seem to be adopting lately, naming and shaming these idiots and pursuing them for any diversion costs. I'd like to see more airlines follow suit as I'm sure that Jet2 are not unique, possibly a system where airlines share information to have a country wide ban for those convicted? I'd also like to see the offence of 'endangering an aircraft' come with a mandatory custodial sentence, hopefully it may be a deterrent for some.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Departure lounge bars is also another tough one. Bar staff can be trained to not serve those under the influence but some hide it better than others. People also have different limits and handle alcohol in different ways, someone who can seem fine one minute can then turn nasty very quickly. Like you say the revenue would also be affected.

I personally like to have a couple of glasses of wine or a couple of beers before flying, it's a sort of tradition that starts the holiday. I know my limits though and drink accordingly.

That hits the nail on the head. People do have different limits and some may seem unaffected by alcohol after several drinks until something triggers them into being abusive at best or violent at worst.

Monitoring the supply of drinks to an individual whether in airport bars or on aircraft is obviously important although often easier said than done.

When governments introduce legislation to try to address particular problems in society the Law of Unintended Consequences frequently intervenes, with the result that the problem has not eased or, if it has, another problem has been created.

As has been said, stricter and guaranteed penalties for offenders might be a help. A diversion to a country where the police aren't so bothered about human rights and prisons are what UK prisons were like a century or two ago might concentrate some minds if they were banged up in those sorts of places for a week or two. Trouble is en-route diversions cost airlines a great deal of money, not to mention inconvenience to other passengers, and if a person has few assets an airline can't get blood out of a stone even with a court judgement in its favour.

It's not an easy problem to solve. If it was it would have been done.

 

[Brummiegem]

I don't know about a specific type of sealable bag,but the system currently in use for transitting passengers does seem to be working.I haven't heard of many people opening sealed bags whilst en route.
Of course this system was introduced following 911,theoretically preventing people getting dangerous liquids through security.
Alcohol could be classed as a dangerous liquid in itself.
Not only is it flammable but anything that makes usually normal sensible people doing daft things has to be dangerous.
Most decent people know their limits,like you Ray 1 or 2 is enough for me,I start to lose the enjoyment of it after that,though I have never been a heavy drinker.
If stricter rules are introduced then as you say air fares will rise,as will other prices throughout the airport.
As per usual the minority are spoiling it for the majority,which is a great shame,as a visit to the airport bar is a bit of a tradition before flying off on your well earned holiday.
It will be interesting to see what happens!!

 

[richard winterbourn]

I am not too sure that a sealed bag always works for transiting passengers. En route from Holguin in Cuba to Birmingham via Milan Malpensa on booked flights i bought duty free in Malpensa before going to gate. However, on this occasion, fog closed in and the flight was cancelled and all passengers bussed to an hotel for the night.

The following morning while having to check-in again at Malpensa we were all told that our sealed duty free bags bought the previous evening in the duty free lounge at the same airport would now have to go into our hold bags.

So, whether it was the fact that we physically left the airport i don't know. But in all our cases none of the bags had been opened and the receipts were clearly visible inside.

I personally don't think that rules relating to sealed duty free goods are universally accepted.

 

[Ray Finkle]

It looks as if Jet2 are going some way to try and stop the problem with alcohol not being sold on board until after 8am. One has to wonder whether some people will try and 'get as much down their neck as possible' when they realise that there may be a couple of alcohol free hours?

Jet2 becomes first European budget airline to ban early morning alcohol sales in crackdown on anti-social behaviour

It will stop passengers buying alcohol on the plane before 8am in a bid to tackle disruptive and abusive behaviour.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jet2-becomes-first-european-budget-8559670

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Drinking alcohol to excess seems to be a particular British social problem. The hooliganism in city and town centres especially at weekends is evidence of this. Listening to certain groups - for instance some of the youngsters at my local cricket club - drinking as much booze as you can get down your neck on a Friday or Saturday evening seems to be regarded as some sort of badge of honour, and regarded with appreciation by peers.

Drunkenness on aircraft is certainly not the sole preserve of the young though. Older generations who themselves probably passed through the 'let's get lathered' period earlier in their lives are just as guilty, perhaps more so.

I'm not a teetotaler - far from it - but I don't think I've ever consumed alcohol to the extent that I've lost control of my actions, even when I was a youngster (although I will admit that's many years ago and memories of that time can be hazy and inclined to be viewed through rose-coloured spectacles).

 

[Brummiegem]

I wouldn't have thought that stopping people buying alcohol before 8am would make much difference.
It is the people who check-in early for a lunchtime,or late afternoon or later flights that need to be targeted.
It is considered the done thing in some cases to get to the airport as early as possible,then spend as much time in a bar or numerous bars as possible.Then it is time to go airside and the next bar,and so on.
Why only target those on early flights,as more often than not these people would be more appreciative of coffee than alcohol.Having said that,I have been asked at 0400 in the morning,'where's the bar mate?'.

Going back to the sealable bag thing or STEB(sealable tamper evident bag),usually if passengers are delayed at BHX overnight they are given a choice as far as taking booze or other liquids are concerned.

1) They can return the purchases to the duty free shop and get a full refund,with receipt and unopened obviously.

2)They can leave liquids and any other purchases from Duty free of their choice at the
store.
They can then be reunited with them when they return to the airport.

3)Take all items with them,but any liquids must be put into hold baggage on check-in the next day.

It does appear that some countries do not recognise the sealable bag rule.
For instance,travellers to Australia from BHX via Dubai can only buy duty free alcohol from Dubai.
This is an Australian ruling.
Yet most other transit passengers through Dubai from BHX or any other UK airport do not have that restriction.
Richard in your case it was probably bad luck as you had an unscheduled overnight stay,instead of flying on from Milan to BHX.

 

[richard winterbourn]

Thanks Brummiegem for your comment. From the flight details i posted earlier, it was at the end of a very, very long day. But it allowed me to have an unscheduled and very good Italian pizza in the hotel where i stayed the night... And, yes, i did put the grappa in my case, along with the two bottles of Cuban rum. There was no way i was going to lose that.

 

[Ray Finkle]

An interesting read

UK airports and food & beverage operators reject irresponsibility claims over alcohol

 

[Brummiegem]

Alcohol is available 24/7 7 days a week in the average high street.True you get incidents but does this not mean that high street retailers are also encouraging innocent humans to buy more and more alcohol.
Sorry I don't buy it.Just because it is available does not mean everyone is going to buy and drink themselves stupid.
When humans get to a certain age they insist that they are an adult. Being an adult brings with it responsibility.Unfortunately there are many on this planet who do not do responsibility.If an individual decides to get himself/herself into a state,why should the blame be placed with someone else.
If you are going to restrict alcohol sales in one place ,then surely these restrictions should be introduced all over,after all the risk is the same!
Just typical of this country when you take away enjoyment of the many to prevent the stupidity of the few.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Another couple of incidents with at least one seemingly alcohol related.

The first caused a Ryanair flight back from Palma to be delayed after one idiot on a stag trip ran across the apron after he was 'dared' to.

The second was on a Monarch flight from Dalaman to Birmingham where the Captain had to divert to Bulgaria. There were six passengers who were allegedly ‘drinking their own alcohol’, ‘smoking in the toilets’, and ‘grabbing female staff’.

All six have received a lifetime ban from flying with Monarch. Good to see another airline following Jet2 in issuing bans.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/watch-moment-birmingham-plane-passenger-9427946

 

[Aviador]

The airlines ought to operate a "pubwatch" style system whereby if you're banned from one you're banned from them all, or at least all that sign up to it. Airlines could place an "Airwatch" symbol next to the ATOL symbol on their websites indicating they are part of such a group. Sensible law abiding people and people with families would even look upon such a symbol as a safety feature when booking their flight.

 

[Ray Finkle]

An update on the idiot who attempted to start a fire onboard a Monarch aircraft. Although there are 'psychiatric and pre-sentencing reports' to be done before he finds out his fate, the article quotes the estimated cost to Monarch was £42,000.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...arch-airlines-flight-from-birmingham-airport/

 

[Ray Finkle]

An interview with the Jet2 MD about some of the issues involving alcohol.

It's a few months old so apologies if it's already been seen.

 

[Aviador]

The Express says airport bars often allow drinks to be served at any time of the day to allow passengers flying at awkward times the chance of an early morning pint. They say this could soon end with new legislation looking to prevent the legal loophole that allows them to stay open past drinking hours.

Ryanair previously said it wanted a ban on morning drinking with a two drinks limit prior to boarding the rest of the time. It is a lot more complicated than you might think as a large amount of airport revenue is generated through the sales of alcohol. Yes a ban and limit could easily be introduced but airports will have to make up for the shortfall using other revenue streams so it could cause a hike in passenger airport changes for all passengers.

 

[Jerry]

Airport's have to make money somewhere and I doubt Ryanair is willing to pay more in fees to make up for any lost earnings.
As for licencing isn't there a 24 hour licence?

 

[Aviador]

Airport's have to make money somewhere and I doubt Ryanair is willing to pay more in fees to make up for any lost earnings.
As for licencing isn't there a 24 hour licence?

I always thought airports applied for a drinks licence in the same way that local pubs applied.

 

[Jerry]

I always thought airports applied for a drinks licence in the same way that local pubs applied.

I don't know honestly. There could be a special licence for them considering their unique operating times.