Security, Immigration & Border Control

[Llandudno]

Keep digging @Llandudno

If LHR or any other airport I went to was like this I would post about it too. They just aren’t. I have provide some evidence to show my opinion is based on my own experience across a number of airports. Could you let us know your flights over the last year so we can judge what your opinion is based on?

Digging what exactly? Digging past the fact you are so narrow minded in your MAN-bashing that you couldn’t possibly conceive that other airports have issues, and are currently doing so and that despite the past issues, it’s a little unfair to judge MAN in isolation now? I’ve openly stated that MAN isn’t perfect. I’ve openly stated MAN isn’t my favourite or worst airport either. But if you just see that as being a MAN-apologist then so be it. I’ve been through enough airports in my time to know when something is acceptable and when it isn’t. And I’ve certainly seen worse airports than MAN, that’s for sure. But hey ho, like I say, why let that get in the way of a good old f4a MAN-bashing moment.

Llandudno, you are accusing Karfa of preconceived ideals on airport experience but from reading your posts, you are doing the same. Please accept that MAN (like other airports) has failings that are not your fault, so let go.
I will be flying thro' MAN in May - first time in over 4 years - so I will be able to offer my opinion on the airport experience then.

Frankly, Just treating people how they treat me. He started with the patronising ‘I’m betting I’ve been through more airports than you’ insinuation without knowing a jot about me, so like I say, merely speaking back to people how I am spoken to. It really is that simple.

Ive said it before, and I’ll say it again, it’s funny how the MAN sub section only comes alive when there’s a good old MAN-bashing to take part of. Yes balanced debate is fine, but the key word there is balance. It would be nice to see so much activity when there are good things to talk about too.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Thank you for that open and, presumably, well informed post. A number of us are aware of the large swathe of redundancies that both the airport and handling agents have made and, whilst appreciating the fundamental reason behind the decision, the cuts appears to have been too large and the ability to recruit too slow.

Rather than people venting their frustration on here can I suggest that you might be better complaining to the relevant people - and that includes Border Force, as the body responsible for any delays once an arriving passenger is inside the terminal and before baggage reclaim. We should all be aware of the way that the airport's systems work - check-in, aircraft handling etc is in the control of the handling agents. The airport authority does look after security and it has been well documented that this is understaffed, but that recruitment is taking place - how long it will take to fill those vacancies is anybody guess.

Thank you.

 

[CCGE29]

From the previous messages the below contacts seem most suitable -

[email protected]

Feedback Form | Manchester Airport

Would you like to share your recent experience at Manchester Airport? Complete our Feedback Form here.

www.manchesterairport.co.uk

 

[KARFA]

Digging what exactly? Digging past the fact you are so narrow minded in your MAN-bashing that you couldn’t possibly conceive that other airports have issues, and are currently doing so and that despite the past issues, it’s a little unfair to judge MAN in isolation now? I’ve openly stated that MAN isn’t perfect. I’ve openly stated MAN isn’t my favourite or worst airport either. But if you just see that as being a MAN-apologist then so be it. I’ve been through enough airports in my time to know when something is acceptable and when it isn’t. And I’ve certainly seen worse airports than MAN, that’s for sure. But hey ho, like I say, why let that get in the way of a good old f4a MAN-bashing moment.


Frankly, Just treating people how they treat me. He started with the patronising ‘I’m betting I’ve been through more airports than you’ insinuation without knowing a jot about me, so like I say, merely speaking back to people how I am spoken to. It really is that simple.

Ive said it before, and I’ll say it again, it’s funny how the MAN sub section only comes alive when there’s a good old MAN-bashing to take part of. Yes balanced debate is fine, but the key word there is balance. It would be nice to see so much activity when there are good things to talk about too.

You questioned my opinion - which is fine - but I provided you with some evidence of what my opinion is based on and the level of experience I have of MAN and other airports in the UK. I would like to know what your experience is and therefore what your opinion is based on, isn't that fair?

I have provided some very clear evidence that I am not judging MAN in isolation, my experience is across a number of UK airports, and that is just in the last year.

Which airports have you experienced in the last year and how do they compare to MAN?

 

[KARFA]

The airport authority does look after security and it has been well documented that this is understaffed, but that recruitment is taking place - how long it will take to fill those vacancies is anybody guess.

Thank you.

Well that is a good point, MAN security is already clearly understaffed so where are the people coming from to staff the T3 opening in three weeks time? I don't think the take up at £12 an hour including shift allowances is quite what MAG group expected.

 

[Scottie Dog]

Please gentlemen, some of the recent posts have descended into nothing but a shambles which appears to be going outside of the normal boundaries deemed acceptable to this forum.

I appreciate that we all have our views, to which we are entitled, but do they on occasions add anything to the discussion?

Being a moderator can, at times, be difficult as we need to consider all sides of a thread before taking any action. Can I therefore ask you all to respect my request to let this particular topic of discussion have a break and, as I've said previously, use your efforts to try to understand what the underlying causes are and what can be done to improve the situation - which obviously is out of our hands, unless you happen to be looking for employment at the airport!

 

[Llandudno]

I have provided some very clear evidence that I am not judging MAN in isolation, my experience is across a number of UK airports, and that is just in the last year.

I do appreciate Scottie Dog has requested a return to the topic at hand, but I do have a genuine question.

2021, as we know, has not been classed as a ‘normal year’.

but your list and this ‘evidence’ you claim to have:

LHR 137, MAN 72, ABZ 21, GLA 15, BHD 11, INV 11, NCL 11, LBA 10, EXT 2, LCY 2, BEB 1, EDI 1, GCI 1, IOM 1, JER 1, KOI 1, LGW 1, LPL 1, LSI 1, MME 1, SYY 1, TRE 1

pertains to 306 airport visits. Given we are talking about the security and airport experience, is your list an honest representation of the claims at hand? That in a 365 day calendar year, you have 306 visits to an airport that would entail using the majority of its amenities? Something seems a little off here.

if the visits are as a passenger, that’s potentially 306 flying days if each visit took place on a different day, 152 days if 2 visits a day. And let’s say you work a ‘typical’ 9-5, you’d work 200 days approx which means you’d have flown every day off in a year of mass flight cancellations and lockdowns?

Even if you are air crew, most rosters give a minimum of 10 days off, so 10x12=120 so that reduces the potential for visits further, and again with it not being a normal year, I’d hazard a guess and say you’ve had more than 10 days off in some months. So if you are air crew it indicates you are operating 4 or more sector days. And if you are on a 4 or more sector day, it’s rare to leave the aircraft unless it’s a night stop, so when you don’t leave the aircraft, can you technically claim that as a true airport visit? A visit you can accurately and honestly judge the experience? I’m not convinced.

so for the record, I’m not claiming you haven’t clocked up 306 airport visits in 2021, but I’m an questioning if you have genuinely ‘utilised’ enough aspects of the airport to claim that those 306 visits bolster your opinion?

apart from that, I’m done.

 

[A400]

People are entitled to have their views if its positive or not.

There seems to be some members on this forum that don’t like negative news or negative experiences. It’s mainly in the Manchester forums. At the end of the day there is negative and good news in aviation it’s just how it works. If it’s negative and it wants to be shared then it should be without being accused of “hating airports” and other accusations.

But let’s get back to the topic of this thread.

 

[KARFA]

I do appreciate Scottie Dog has requested a return to the topic at 6hand, but I do have a genuine question.

2021, as we know, has not been classed as a ‘normal year’.

but your list and this ‘evidence’ you claim to have:

LHR 137, MAN 72, ABZ 21, GLA 15, BHD 11, INV 11, NCL 11, LBA 10, EXT 2, LCY 2, BEB 1, EDI 1, GCI 1, IOM 1, JER 1, KOI 1, LGW 1, LPL 1, LSI 1, MME 1, SYY 1, TRE 1

pertains to 306 airport visits. Given we are talking about the security and airport experience, is your list an honest representation of the claims at hand? That in a 365 day calendar year, you have 306 visits to an airport that would entail using the majority of its amenities? Something seems a little off here.

if the visits are as a passenger, that’s potentially 306 flying days if each visit took place on a different day, 152 days if 2 visits a day. And let’s say you work a ‘typical’ 9-5, you’d work 200 days approx which means you’d have flown every day off in a year of mass flight cancellations and lockdowns?

Even if you are air crew, most rosters give a minimum of 10 days off, so 10x12=120 so that reduces the potential for visits further, and again with it not being a normal year, I’d hazard a guess and say you’ve had more than 10 days off in some months. So if you are air crew it indicates you are operating 4 or more sector days. And if you are on a 4 or more sector day, it’s rare to leave the aircraft unless it’s a night stop, so when you don’t leave the aircraft, can you technically claim that as a true airport visit? A visit you can accurately and honestly judge the experience? I’m not convinced.

so for the record, I’m not claiming you haven’t clocked up 306 airport visits in 2021, but I’m an questioning if you have genuinely ‘utilised’ enough aspects of the airport to claim that those 306 visits bolster your opinion?

apart from that, I’m done.

well i was happy to let this drop based on the post earlier today, but since you are challenging what i posted and purely from the point of view of clearing up your doubts about my figures and to ensure no one has the impression i am making anything up:

- i don't work in aviation and my job has nothing to do with aviation, but i do have a full time job
- very little of my travel is for work usually, and certainly there hasn't been any work travel for me since march 2020
- the numbers are for the calendar year of 2021 in which i took 164 flights and mostly domestic because of the restrictions, obviously 2020 was lower due to the restrictions and lockdowns at 117 but in previous years it was around 200-230 or so with a mixture of domestic, short haul in to Europe, and long haul to other parts of the world
- the numbers include arrivals and departures from each airport, so for example I have 72 visits to MAN which is a combination of arrivals and departures which is made up of 29 departures and 43 arrivals for MAN
- the vast majority of my flights in to MAN are domestic so do not involve immigration, therefore i have not expressed any opinion on that, you would quite rightly say i have no first hand experience to talk about that
- i often do more than one flight a day when travelling
- my record of flights is actually on public view on various flight tracker sites like BA97 and myflightpath.club

now you may not agree with my opinion, but i provided the evidence to at least demonstrate that opinion is based on my own experiences.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

KARFA: I'm not taking sides in the security debate, just following up on your flights log which is as impressive as it is intriguing.

Firstly, a friendly heads up. Your future bookings include two flights operating simultaneously on different routes on the morning of 27th March 2022. If this isn't a typo, you may want to adjust one of the bookings.

I'm just curious as to the logic behind your flying programme. Let me say that I do admire it, so there is no negativity implied - just some puzzlement. My observations include:

- The vast majority of your flights feature Oneworld carriers.
- You pay premium fares on most flights where these are offered, including first on several occasions.
- A number of your flights involve flying out and back on the same aircraft, based upon a turnaround of an hour or so at destination, and you often travel premium for this. You have told us that you are not an aviation employee, which implies that you must disembark, hurry through arrivals, rush to departures, negotiate security and reboard the aircraft all before the gate closes. I can certainly understand why the security queue would stress you out in this scenario. I had to do that against the clock at BHX on a Freebird Europe DBV-BHX-MAN service a couple of years back ... nearly killed me!
- Some of your itineraries are true headscratchers. Fly LHR-INV late evening; overnight there; morning flight INV-LHR connecting LHR-ORD and onwards domestic within the USA. I admire the ambition!

So I find myself trying to picture you. Extremely keen aviation enthusiast, loves flying for the sake of it. Money no object. Several itineraries suggest that the flights themselves are the point of the trip, rather than any commitments at destination.

None of the above are criticisms. Just friendly observations from one who takes on similarly eccentric flight itineraries. I'm doing six day returns on Manchester to Spain routes this month alone (as SLF, not staff). Not everyone's idea of fun. But it ticks the boxes for me. And they're bargain deals (which I look out for). I'd love to emulate your preference for premium cabins as standard, but I can't justify that.

Happy travels! And revisit your overlapping flight bookings on 27/03.

 

[KARFA]

@EGCC_MAN yes I have two conflicting flights booked on 27 March. One is going to be cancelled at some point.

I hope you don't mind, but I am not going to get in to a discussion on the how and why of my flights, it isn't relevant to this thread. The purpose was to answer the doubts being expressed that what I posted was not accurate.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

KARFA - No worries. Not digging for personal info; that isn't done on forums.

As a regular traveller myself, though (off to the airport again at 4AM!), I would like to ask you about your experience of those turnaround flights when you're only on the ground for an hour or so at destination. I'd love to do some of these, but I've rarely been quite brave enough to dare booking them. I've done some years ago on standby airpass arrangements in the US when missing the next departure didn't really matter. And another oddball one: a day-out MAN-LDE-MAN on Britannia donkey's years ago when Mancunia Travel had surplus seats to shift. But Lourdes flights were long turnarounds (wheelchair pax etc.) and the crews knew that they had pax to come back through security. In the event, that flight actually diverted to Pau-Pyrenees anyway which made for an even more interesting day out!

But the kind of trips which you've undertaken on a one-hour turnaround look very brave. Whilst an aircraft may be on the ground for an hour, you can generally presume ten minutes to deplane, and boarding some 20 minutes before pushback. So that leaves thirty minutes to exit through arrivals, join the queue, negotiate departure formalities and get back to gate. How have you generally fared doing this - only airline staff get to stay with the plane? For reference, at which airports (in your experience) would you consider this a worthwhile option to attempt? Have you missed any flights trying to do this? Any tips appreciated.

I've seen a number of destinations available at bargain rates from MAN where the offputting factor has been the short turnaround time to get back to the plane home. Perhaps I can afford to ramp up the risk tolerance and be bolder?

Meanwhile, I'll report back after tomorrow's Malaga day trip. It's Saturday, so I'm braced for long queues!

 

[KARFA]

No bravery required @EGCC_MAN and no I haven't got close to missing a flight.

I wouldn't try it at AGP when arriving from the UK.

 

[lfc84]

There's a thread on BA flyertalk about back-to-back turnarounds and which airports people use

 

[EGCC_MAN]

No - definitely not proposing a one hour turnaround at AGP!!! And there are many more like it.

But I certainly think some of the ones you've listed look very brave indeed.

 

[KARFA]

They really aren’t. Tbf I think for the sake of this thread I think let’s get back to the topic. If you want to ask any specific questions perhaps that’s better done via pm.

 

[EGCC_MAN]

This thread is: ‘Security, immigration and border control’. Asking you how you negotiate these in about 30 minutes at the major airports you list as having done so couldn’t be more on topic. And others here might also benefit from your experience in getting through so fast and apparently completely chilled about it.

Don’t be shy … share the frequent flyer’s tips! In my experience, only a crew member staying with the aircraft would attempt the airport transits you do. You might as well accept the ‘brave’ compliment, because the only alternative might risk causing offence! LOL.

 

[KARFA]

I am happy to answer your questions on specific airports by PM if you need advice. It isn’t relevant to this thread which relates to MAN and where I have never attempted a back to back. Why don’t you risk the offence and see where it gets you?

 

[EGCC_MAN]

What a curious evasive response to a straightforward question. I’m in T1 Departures now, so I’ll come back to you on here either tonight or tomorrow. Can’t type much now.

I’ll “risk the offence” then!

 

[paully]

EGCC_MAN

How was T1 when you arrived at silly O`Clock this morning?...We are going through there at that time in May..All observations gratefully received..