Loganair

[TOM100]

All the Welsh Government dithering is not helping either, after all economic consequences will just be blamed on Westminster......

 

[Jerry]

All the Welsh Government dithering is not helping either, after all economic consequences will just be blamed on Westminster......

Dithering? I'm not sure there's much the WG can do if airlines aren't interested in Cardiff airport. As for the economy even in a downturn routes like Edinburgh should still be viable. As for Westminster I doubt they'll do anything to help Cardiff.

 

[TOM100]

I mean dithering around opening up the Welsh economy - retail opens in England on Monday and we still don’t have a clue......

 

[TOM100]

If the economy is closed with no real signs of reopening why would you be in a hurry to start business flights.....at least England are starting the process and signalling their intent to do so quickly (whilst the trends for Covid remain in the correct direction).

 

[Matthew Davies]

I have to agree with you Jerry. Unless they have something up their sleeve. But it seems only Airlines are making announcements and not airports.

I don't know how many aircraft Eastern have left. Or are in service. They have recently put their ERJ 145 up for sale I think.

 

[Jerry]

If the economy is closed with no real signs of reopening why would you be in a hurry to start business flights.....at least England are starting the process and signalling their intent to do so quickly (whilst the trends for Covid remain in the correct direction).

It's not just about flights starting now they don't look like they'll resume at all. Nothing onsale for winter or next year or even a comment that they'll return for summer 2021. So I'm not sure that the WGs dithering or caution depends on how you see it could be a factor.

I have to agree with you Jerry. Unless they have something up their sleeve. But it seems only Airlines are making announcements and not airports.

I don't know how many aircraft Eastern have left. Or are in service. They have recently put their ERJ 145 up for sale I think.

I believe at the moment I believe that they have 2 ATR72s, 6 J41s, 1 E170, 2 E145s, 4 Saab2000s.
There's 1 E170 still in storage I believe and it was rumoured that they were going to have 3 E190s. It's probable that the Saab2000s will go eventually as well.
It could be a case that they just don't have any spare aircraft for CWL.

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

Do you have a link for the E145 sale? Are they putting both up for sale or just the one?

The E145 are popular size aircraft for football charters especially now there are limited options in the U.K. for footie charters.

I know that G-CHMR was usually in the U.K. and other was out in France but the contract had since ended prior to COVID.

 

[Barry Man]

Trial And Error: 3 In 10 Loganair Routes Fail

With domestic air traffic expected to recover from the COVID crisis first, regional airlines are having to think…

simpleflying.com

Makes bad reading for Cardiff

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Trial And Error: 3 In 10 Loganair Routes Fail

With domestic air traffic expected to recover from the COVID crisis first, regional airlines are having to think…

simpleflying.com

Makes bad reading for Cardiff

"Another market that is seeing a lack of Loganair is that between Cardiff, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Hinkles (Loganair CEO) said that demand on these routes was down 85 – 90% and that the service just couldn’t be sustained."

I don't understand the 'down 85%-90%'. Down on what? Flybe's numbers? The routes to GLA and EDI by Loganair were brand new. Given that GLA began in February as the Covid crisis was beginning to push across the world and EDI should have started on the day that lockdown began it wasn't the most favourable time for assessing new routes anywhere.

It's almost certain that Loganair would have approached the CWL owners to see if there was anything they might be prepared to do to keep these routes going.

From other comments in the article the 'legacy' of the demise last year of the other airline (flybmi) in the group appears to be weighing heavily on Loganair's thinking. The CEO said, "While it’s never good to see an airline pulling out of any route, it’s worse to see an airline go under", which suggests that they won't give any route long if they feel it is underperforming.

If Loganair won't reconsider what other options are there? Eastern might be in the same boat which probably leaves Ryanair or easyJet.

The latter is unlikely but Ryanair might feel a couple of flights a day to both EDI and GLA could work if the WG puts in enough financial support, which might be a reason why there appears to be no response from the WG to the Loganair predicament. After all, EDI and GLA are probably the key domestic routes from CWL meaning that the WG would surely pay almost anything to keep them operational.

It might soon become clear whether EDI and GLA are part of a wider Ryanair initiative at CWL brokered by the WG.

 

[Matthew Davies]

Have a look at Sky world Mathers. Two Eastern 145 aircraft for sale. Tried to copy the link but didn't work??

 

[Jerry]

"Another market that is seeing a lack of Loganair is that between Cardiff, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Hinkles (Loganair CEO) said that demand on these routes was down 85 – 90% and that the service just couldn’t be sustained."

Yet there's no effect on Exeter??
If they are using Flybe's figures then due to COVID_19 there would be a drop in demand not to mention that the capacity that Loganair was only a daily flight compared to 3 daily from Flybe. It is definitely odd that an airline like Loganair can't even see it as a future route?

 

[TOM100]

Unless FR come in I am struggling to see where any growth for CWL comes from ?

 

[Foxlimayankee]

"Another market that is seeing a lack of Loganair is that between Cardiff, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Hinkles (Loganair CEO) said that demand on these routes was down 85 – 90% and that the service just couldn’t be sustained."

I don't understand the 'down 85%-90%'. Down on what? Flybe's numbers? The routes to GLA and EDI by Loganair were brand new. Given that GLA began in February as the Covid crisis was beginning to push across the world and EDI should have started on the day that lockdown began it wasn't the most favourable time for assessing new routes anywhere.

It's almost certain that Loganair would have approached the CWL owners to see if there was anything they might be prepared to do to keep these routes going.

From other comments in the article the 'legacy' of the demise last year of the other airline (flybmi) in the group appears to be weighing heavily on Loganair's thinking. The CEO said, "While it’s never good to see an airline pulling out of any route, it’s worse to see an airline go under", which suggests that they won't give any route long if they feel it is underperforming.

If Loganair won't reconsider what other options are there? Eastern might be in the same boat which probably leaves Ryanair or easyJet.

The latter is unlikely but Ryanair might feel a couple of flights a day to both EDI and GLA could work if the WG puts in enough financial support, which might be a reason why there appears to be no response from the WG to the Loganair predicament. After all, EDI and GLA are probably the key domestic routes from CWL meaning that the WG would surely pay almost anything to keep them operational.

It might soon become clear whether EDI and GLA are part of a wider Ryanair initiative at CWL brokered by the WG.

The CWL Management team should be questioning those comments, to specifically name CWL under the current circumstances, and based on the fact they provided rubbish timings on the routes isn't really fair.

The issue with these routes as we've found is they have to be business friendly, so that means at least twice daily especially EDI, which FR might struggle to fill.

Added to this, easyJet placed a large amount of capacity on Bristol to Glasgow and Edinburgh; its proximity to Cardiff has served to draw even more of Loganair’s traffic away.

Which may be a contradiction in itself seeing as they have launched from Exeter, which can be classed as competing with those same Easyjet flights.

With demand down and not likely to recover soon, it may well be worth CWL looking at double drop flights, such as the previously operated EXT-CWL-EDI. Or Eastern could make use of the J41 in between VLY services to EDI/GLA. Not ideal aircraft type or timings, but better than nothing and T3 can then gauge demand once demand increases again.

 

[TOM100]

I am not sure you can really gauge demand on completely business unfriendly timings and fares (if at usual business model levels) - in fact quite the opposite. Eastern are IMO really not useful for CWL at the moment apart from VLY (which they are paid to run anyway) - they will do nothing for pax numbers (in the gig scheme of things) or route proving - they are just to small and lacking in big picture ambition.

 

[Em0866]

It is disappointing to see that Loganair have pulled out of the routes between Scotland and Cwl. I think the excuse he has given is weak given that the Glasgow flights had not been running for very long and the departure time was poor. Likewise the Edinburgh flight was not off to a great start because of they launched just before lockdown. I guess we'll just have to wait it out and see what happens in the next few weeks and months as we begin the slow recovery out of the current pandemic.

 

[Jerry]

Without airlines like Loganair its going to be a long road to recovery for Cardiff airport. Loganair statement to me at least does seem to be a bit of an f you to Cardiff.

 

[geoff]

I am surprised that we have heard very little from CWL management, over the last few months, no statements on future prospects, or a comment on the Loganair announcement, although there is very little they can do if an airline decides they do not wish to operate from an airport.

 

[Jerry]

They've probably got very little to say apart from that they are trying to reinstate lost routes and are engaging with airlines. Problem may well be airlines aren't engaging with them and I do wonder if they aren't getting much help from WG because they have more pressing matters to deal with.

 

[jfy1999]

This interview with the Loganair CEO specifically addresses the issue of CWL. The questions are listed below the video but my browser is being uncooperative so I don’t know his answers!

anna.aero | Temporarily Unavailable

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It is disappointing to see that Loganair have pulled out of the routes between Scotland and Cwl. I think the excuse he has given is weak given that the Glasgow flights had not been running for very long and the departure time was poor. Likewise the Edinburgh flight was not off to a great start because of they launched just before lockdown. I guess we'll just have to wait it out and see what happens in the next few weeks and months as we begin the slow recovery out of the current pandemic.

Hello Em. Good to see you back posting. I hope that you are well.

Without airlines like Loganair its going to be a long road to recovery for Cardiff airport. Loganair statement to me at least does seem to be a bit of an f you to Cardiff.

The report highlighted at #128 above also stated that three out of ten Loganair routes fail. Their CEO denied their approach was haphazard and said that despite a ‘suck it and see’ approach, it was a well thought out process. Hmm!

They had planned to operate EDI-MAN up to 4 x daily to replace the former Flybe route, only to discover later that much of the traffic was to connecting flights at MAN and as a result their own traffic 'just fell of a cliff'.

With GLA-MAN the problem was the competing train service that ultimately put Loganair 'under too much pressure'.

I know it's easy to be a wise CEO from behind a keyboard but surely the briefest research would have identified the rail competition.

I am surprised that we have heard very little from CWL management, over the last few months, no statements on future prospects, or a comment on the Loganair announcement, although there is very little they can do if an airline decides they do not wish to operate from an airport.

As Jerry suggests, if the airport company is probably speaking with other airlines and it might not be appropriate to make public statements at the moment.