Flyforbeans part III

[Aviador]

An operator with the name of Planetair used to operate out of Leeds and they had the same difficulty setting up because of the huge start up costs involved. They ended up starting with leased equipment which got around the initial costs. Sadly the business ceased trading after a short period. Their website is still running. http://www.planetair.co.uk/

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There is a lot of impatience from some posters on the Welsh site regarding lack of progress from FFB. It's understandable given CWL's current unsatisfactory situation re airlines and routes.

Tim Lee, MD of FFB, repeatedly points out that now is not the time to be thinking of starting an airline and it is very difficult, even for a layman like me, not to see the sense in that. The FlyGlobespan events merely confirm how hard it is to fund an existing airline let alone a start-up.

If his words are to be believed, and I have no reason to doubt them, Tim Lee and his colleagues are as frustrated with the delay as most of the posters.

In the current market place of banks showing great reluctance to make loans one has to wonder how easy it will be for a new airline to obtain the requisite finance to begin operations.

When it first came into the public domain FFB said it had investors behind it ready to get the thing going but that was before the world recession. Let's hope these investors remain and with the appetite and funds to invest.

 

[Aviador]

I totally agree with what you've said LocalYokel. I wonder what these guys are doing in the meantime, I mean who is paying their wage to be sat around for two or three years waiting for the economy to improve? They must have one hell of a patient investor.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think the senior people in FFB have other jobs or consultancies and are not working fulltime setting up FFB.

For example, Tim Lee the MD of FFB works for a Middle East airline.

That said, some money has obviously been expended in the initial stages of the set-up and probably continues to be to some extent in order to keep things ticking over.

 

[Em0866]

If the market isn't right in the current economic climate, then why are they keeping on going? How long ago is it since they launched their website? 2 years? I know if things were different then they would be up and running by now, but how long can they go like this? Yes it would be good for CWL if they did launch or even give a little hint as to when they will, but this has gone on long enough.

I know people are frustrated with the carrot dangling in front of the donkey, and I can understand the management at FFB are equally frustrated too, but sometimes, give the length of time, it's best to give up!

 

[Em0866]

Further to my previous posting, looks as if something may be happening on the FFB front. "Coming soon - a new web presence for flyforbeans". What this means? Who knows! Lets hope there's some good news coming on this in the next few weeks

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Hello Em,

Good to read your views on here once again. The CWL board seems to have lost some of the members who used to post regularly, probably due to the web site set up to promote Welsh aviation where I recognise a number of former posters to forums4airports whenever I pop in to read what's being discussed.

I note that Tim Lee is saying the upgrade to the FFB website isn't significant to the extent that it presages a major announcement concerning the airline.

Nevertheless, with the possibility of bmibaby either disappearing completely as an entity or reducing still further at CWL it must be very tempting to those behind FFB to be in a position where they could snap up baby's core routes before someone else does, with Flybe looking the most likely.

Of course it may be that an airline like Flybe would not be worried about compettion from a start-up airline and would push ahead with replacing the baby core routes even if it meant going head to head with FFB - but to be a real airline rather than a paper one would still put FFB in a stronger position in the event of such an eventuality.

Probably the thing that might stop them is finance. Although FFB said at the beginning that it had major investors the likelihood is that it would still need substantial borrowing - it would have to prove to the CAA it was financially viable anyway - and we all know that obtaining money from the usual sources of the past is now very difficult, and new airlines are notoriously a high risk adventure.


It seems that FFB has a number of people in senior positions who have great experience of running airlines so they ought to be able to judge when conditions are right. However, it's not an exact science as numerous airline failures in the past have shown.

I'd love to see FFB start, if only to see the routes they have in mind.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Interesting comments on the Welsh aviation website.

The administrator, in answer to a poster's query about the current status of FFB, said he had recently had lunch with Tim Lee, the MD.

Tim Lee, a regular contributor to the Wales site, has been absent from it in recent times.

The site administrator said he completely understands the reasons for the absence and has asked members to avoid comment in the FFB thread on that site for the next few weeks which 'with any luck' will then allow them to provide members with 'fascinating insight and background'.

I could be wrong, and that certainly wouldn't be the first time, but this has the sniff of positive action going on behind the scenes.

Tim Lee has been saying for a very long time, and this is completely understandable and sensible, that he and his people would not make a move until they judged economic conditions to be right.

I know that FFB has been a paper airline for a number of years but I get the feeling that, unlike other paper airlines that failed to materialise into the real thing, this one has a much firmer base.

I would love to see it take to the skies and prosper.

 

[Em0866]

Fingers crossed that things are starting to move with FFB. It's been a long time and I myself have doubted that it would come to anything. However, with this latest "insight" there may be a glimmer of hope. Like you Local I would love to see this airline "take off".....excuse the pun!

 

[vorloc]

Almost a month since the announcement on WAN, has anyone heard any news??

 

[TheLocalYokel]

No, still very quiet - all a bit mysterious.

Tim Lee (FFB MD) has taken a sabbatical from all forums on the Welsh aviation website and other members seem to have complied with the request not to discuss FFB.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Another three months have elapsed since my previous post and still nothing in the public domain.

It's over three years since this venture was first announced.

Has anyone heard any recent rumours?

 

[Em0866]

Hi Local. I hope you are well

I've not heard a thing and of course they guy from the other forum who used to contribute quite a bit on there has disappeared from the forum for some reason. The only thing I can think of after all this time is that it won't get any further than this. I hate to say it as I would love them to launch. With the oil prices and current economic climate has stalled them from starting, which is understandable. But why change their website to say "soon"? That's like asking how long is a piece of string in my book. We need news not a carrot dangling in front of us

 

[Aviador]

Hi Em0866

There is only so long you can point the blame at oil prices, wars and volcanic ash but before long you will start to loose your credibility and FFB is pretty close to this.

FFB isn't the first paper airline and it wont be the last.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Hello Em*, glad to see you still 'tune in'. I'm well thank you and trust you are.

Tim Lee the MD has continued his deliberate absence from the Wales site so far as I can see.

The suggestion was that it would be unhelpful to speculate publicly on that forum and the administrator asked for co-operation with a hint that all would be revealed in due course, but no time scale given.

Perhaps negotiations really are continuing behind the scenes.

I suppose we might have to wait another three years for the economy to really pick up.

* How strange. I type E m but with no gap yet it comes out as 'them'.

 

[jimmy12]

Haven't BMI Baby pulled out of Cardiff airport?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Haven't BMI Baby pulled out of Cardiff airport?

Welcome to the forum jimmy12. Thank you for your initial posts - hope they are the first of many.

baby are still there with a new route to Munich starting this winter.

 

[vorloc]

Hi,
just checked FFB website, it seems to have gone? looks like thats maybe the end of the story??

 

[Aviador]

Thanks for letting us know about that one vorloc. It will be a shame if they have decided to throw in the towel before they even got off the ground but that's the way the aviation industry goes I guess.

 

[Em0866]

Well it is a shame, but I can't help feeling it was inevitable. I'm not aware of any press release or whether maybe there is something wrong with their server (just like last time), so maybe we should hold fire for now, until we know for sure