Drone protest planned at Heathrow re expansion

https://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/ex...ith-drones-over-expansion-plan-11364366409102

The group calling itself Extinction Rebellion says it will fly drones in the vicinity of Heathrow on 18 June to show its opposition to the airport's expansion. It avers that if the government does not immediately stop plans for the expansion a 10-day demonstration will begin on 1 July.

The people behind this initiative know full well that no government could capitulate to the demands of a self-appointed group of people. To do so would open the flood gates of anarchy. If they do fly drones within five kilometres of the airport they will commit a serious criminal offfence.

Whilst few people doubt the good intentions of many of the people involved - inevitably such groups are infiltrated by activists who have other agendas - what will it really achieve apart from severe disruption to people going about their everyday lives?

China is set on building over 200 more airports in the next 15 years or so

https://www.airport-technology.com/news/china-new-airports-2035/

India likewise with around 100 new airports

http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/markets/india-plans-build-100-new-airports-deal-surge-dema/

Istanbul's new airport has been built with an ultimate capacity of 200 mppa.

These are just some examples of what is happening in the rest of the world.

What will a token brake on Heathrow expansion mean to the world's climate if other countries are intent on forging ahead with their own aviation growth? Do the climate change people in this country really think that the UK is such a powerful and dominant country in the world that all other nations will follow our example? If they do, they are deluded.

Even within the UK if Heathrow is curbed flights will operate from other airports instead, giving rise to the same amount of emissions.

My local airport at Bristol is subject to huge opposition from sections of the community with its plan to seek local authority approval to raise its passenger limit from 10 mppa to 12 mppa. One group says that such expansion at BRS will lead to "devastating impacts on the climate". Goodness knows what they think will happen with the new Chinese and Indian airports then.

In fact, as with Heathrow, the opponents' thinking is muddled because many in the BRS opposition group want Cardiff Airport expanded instead. More flights from there will be equally damaging to the climate as more from BRS would be (although by a gnat's whisker in world terms when it comes to overall emissions).
 
Environment campaigners win Heathrow expansion case


Yet more airport expansion being prevented on grounds of climate change.

In the last 12 months climate change really has shot up the agenda. With Stansted and Bristol expansions being rejected recently, are we now entering an age where the majority of people view aviation as bad?
 
These idiots have won again. Pretty obvious that they are going after the "biggest" target. But maybe they should reconsider there target; as the economic benefits of aviation direct and indirect will effect the worlds GDP. But you cannot have that argument with them as they just reply that we need to change our capitalist society.

But maybe they should go do the below:

Make supermarkets and businesses go plastic free? Make it law?
Make supermarkets stop with food waste?
Look at the way likes of Amazon and others package products? Make them cut down the on packaging and plastic?
Encourage people to eat less meat within a week? It's no secret that our consumption of meat is high and therefore that can contribute to the global emissions.
Look at the way businesses are helping the rise of emissions. Banks closing local branches of banks within the countryside therefore putting people into cars to travel to the local towns which could be miles away.
Go after the government and local governments to invest in local infrastructure? Transit systems, Trains, Buses? And dont just talk as they do.
Make the government invest in green technology.
Look at the way construction companies are contributing to the earths emissions and make them go greener.

List goes on ...

They all seem happy for Dominic Cummings and the government to cut up the country for the political project HS2 when in reality we need a mass investment in local infrastructure over some stupid political ideological railway line.
 
Unfortunately aviation's an easy target. Whereas most people only fly once a year, other area's where emissions could be reduced, such as driving, people use on a daily basis.

Globally aviation accounts for just 2% of emissions, with the UK representing a very small part of that. Based on that, blocking airport expansion in the UK on the grounds of climate change really is absurd.

If your boats sinking, what do you bail the boat out with - a thimble (aviation) or a bucket (energy, automotive, industry, etc)?
 
The food waste by supermarkets has dropped dramatically ( I know I work in retail) and more food is wasted by the general public..
Food waste by supermarkets is very difficult to stop as customers are so fickle and things like weather
etc cause huge problems, classic example bank holidays people plan BBQs and then the weather shows it is
going to pour down so everybody cancels BBQ and we are left with tons of food nobody wants and as the
lead in for these product can be a month we all know how unpredictable the weather can be
Plastic wrap of food is being cut but does take time to feed through but guess what it causes more food to be wasted
Packaging for like of Amazon is a difficult one as the returns situation
Meat consumption needs to drop from what it was but many don`t like the veggie options and I tried some and found them unpalatable and still leaving feeling hungry
Banks are not needed now as virtually everything can be done online
I live in South Manchester and find that the railways in general are OK but running out of space to add extra trains
HS2 will help this as it will take the long haul to London onto a separate line opening up room for commuter
trains, trams are great but buses are a waste of time as they are too dear and infrequent or just just don`t go where you want to go, my wife being partly disabled finds bus transport a no go but all the other transport great
Just to add HS2 is essential not a looney idea because rest of the railways just cannot cope and there is no way to expand them without destroying many towns to put extra tracks in and which would cost many times the cost of HS2
 
Personally I'm delighted with the decision albeit for questionable reasons. I agree with those who argue that future expansion of air traffic in the SE will mainly come from airlines more suited to LGW and possibly STN and LTN. Additionally, R3 at LHR could only restrict growth at regional airports (haven't the DfT even produced data that shows this outcome?) making a mockery of the stated government aim of levelling up.

It seems the government will not appeal today's decision although LHR have said they will.
 
Personally I'm delighted with the decision albeit for questionable reasons. I agree with those who argue that future expansion of air traffic in the SE will mainly come from airlines more suited to LGW and possibly STN and LTN. Additionally, R3 at LHR could only restrict growth at regional airports (haven't the DfT even produced data that shows this outcome?) making a mockery of the stated government aim of levelling up.

It seems the government will not appeal today's decision although LHR have said they will.

It would only 'restrict' growth at regional airports from Heathrow 'using up' the carbon budget for aviation - but what government would really impose restrictions on regional airports to facilitate that?

A few years ago the CEO of Heathrow claimed the airport had had talks with as many as 30 airlines wanting to expand or launch routes to Heathrow.

Interestingly now for the SE:

Heathrow - 3rd runway looking very unlikely
Gatwick - limited capacity to expand
Stansted - recent application to increase capacity to 43mppa rejected. Capacity remains at 35mppa (vs 28mppa in 2019)
Luton - current cap is 18mppa (2019 was 18.2mppa, so slightly over). Plans for a new terminal plus increase in capacity
City - expansion currently under construction. Movement cap of 120,000 vs 84,000 actual last year. Equivalent to 2mppa extra

With Heathrow, Stansted & Bristol expansions all having been blocked in the past 2 months, I find it unlikely Luton and Gatwick will be allowed to expand.

As things stand, that leaves just c.15mppa growth left at all London airports. Sure there's the runway capacity there, but stricter limits actually mean the entire London airport system is operating at around 92% capacity.
 
The problem with Gatwick Luton and Stansted is they don't have the geographical benefits Heathrow does and City can only handle certain aircraft the government have no real plan here the industry has to be able to grow or we will fall behind the rest of the world more and more business wise. The greens have a case yes local residents around Heathrow more so however Heathrow has to be able to grow in some form.

Does anyone know what Heathrow alone is operating at?

Is one option for London City to take on some of the European routes from Heathrow where airlines have aircraft that can utilise City airports runway such as Alitalia and LOT using City more than they do at present yes it isn't a big fix but that sort of thing would give Heathrow some scope to expand long haul.
 
The problem with Gatwick Luton and Stansted is they don't have the geographical benefits Heathrow does and City can only handle certain aircraft the government have no real plan here the industry has to be able to grow or we will fall behind the rest of the world more and more business wise. The greens have a case yes local residents around Heathrow more so however Heathrow has to be able to grow in some form.

Does anyone know what Heathrow alone is operating at?

Is one option for London City to take on some of the European routes from Heathrow where airlines have aircraft that can utilise City airports runway such as Alitalia and LOT using City more than they do at present yes it isn't a big fix but that sort of thing would give Heathrow some scope to expand long haul.

In 2019 Heathrow had c.475,000 movements vs a capacity of 480,000 so 99%.

Problem with utilising London City is the size of aircraft that can use it. For every flight to move out of Heathrow you'd have to start at least 2 from City. As I said before, City's only got capacity for another 2 million passengers, would hardly make a dent at Heathrow.
 
Does anyone know what Heathrow alone is operating at?

I belive it's around 98% of capacity so no surprise any hiccups and chaos ensues with aircraft stacked up on hold waiting to land which doesn't really help the greens case but clearly they know best meanwhile Amsterdam, Paris etc. all will be rubbing there hands with glee despite getting extra pollution and Wille Walsh will be doing somersaults.
 
The judgment did not specifically rule out expansion, or say the government’s airports national policy statement was incompatible with the UK’s commitment to reducing carbon emissions. However, it did say the government would need to undertake more work to ensure a third runway would not break its commitments under the Paris climate agreement.

Quite what that means is anyone's guess. When you consider that the USA has reneged on its Paris commitment because it would adversely affect its economy, and the likes of China and India (both Paris signatories) intend building new airports at a furious pace it shows once again that the UK seems quite content to cut off its own nose to spite its face when other countries merely pay lip service and go on their merry way.
 
It would only 'restrict' growth at regional airports from Heathrow 'using up' the carbon budget for aviation - but what government would really impose restrictions on regional airports to facilitate that?

A few years ago the CEO of Heathrow claimed the airport had had talks with as many as 30 airlines wanting to expand or launch routes to Heathrow.

Interestingly now for the SE:

Heathrow - 3rd runway looking very unlikely
Gatwick - limited capacity to expand
Stansted - recent application to increase capacity to 43mppa rejected. Capacity remains at 35mppa (vs 28mppa in 2019)
Luton - current cap is 18mppa (2019 was 18.2mppa, so slightly over). Plans for a new terminal plus increase in capacity
City - expansion currently under construction. Movement cap of 120,000 vs 84,000 actual last year. Equivalent to 2mppa extra

With Heathrow, Stansted & Bristol expansions all having been blocked in the past 2 months, I find it unlikely Luton and Gatwick will be allowed to expand.

As things stand, that leaves just c.15mppa growth left at all London airports. Sure there's the runway capacity there, but stricter limits actually mean the entire London airport system is operating at around 92% capacity.

My gripe with this is the following:
This is only a hypothesis so the figures are not representative of any particular airport although similar can be said about a number of competing UK airports and regions and other airports internationally that are within nations who have signed up to the Paris Agreement:

Airport A handles 7 million
Airport B handles 2 million

Airport A serves a city of 3 million
Airport B serves a city of 3 million

Airport B requests to expand to handle the same as airport A but is denied for environmental concerns.
Airport A then has an economic advantage over airport B on the basis of environmental concerns.

This can't be fair for those airports wishing to expand, nor can it be fair to expect the larger airports to reduce their size either to allow for a redistribution of passenger and freight traffic.

What is the answer?
 

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