British Airways Cityflyer

[58terminus]

I've quite often typed out a rant but stopped myself from posting at the last minute!

Posting it is called a Trump

 

[Jon Dempsey]

"Whilst it will be good to see BA colours back at BHX, I must admit I'm a tad disappointed with the flight times. I don't tend to fly out to Spain that often so can't speak personally, but do flights that are that late put people off? Or is it less of a factor in choosing who to fly with?"

With the timings to Malaga, I will certainly be giving the service a swerve.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I sent a text to Birmingham Airport CEO Paul Kehoe as soon as I heard the news congratulating him on the deal. Paul replied “it’s fantastic news and now we must all use it.”

https://jassansi.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/ba-back-in-brum/

I have a feeling that all of their new flights will do well. The BA name still commands a lot of respect in some circles and the destinations chosen are all very popular. Shame about the times though.

I must admit I'm a tad disappointed with the flight times. I don't tend to fly out to Spain that often so can't speak personally, but do flights that are that late put people off? Or is it less of a factor in choosing who to fly with?

For me the flight times are not a total deal clincher but these are pretty appalling. We've booked with Monarch to Porto later this year, the flight times weren't great but it's somewhere that we want to visit so it's a small price to pay.

Sadly for me though an 02:55 into Malaga is far from ideal so I'll be sticking with Monarch or Jet2 for the time being

 

[58terminus]

For me the flight times are not a total deal clincher but these are pretty appalling.

Interesting to compare the passenger friendly timings at Bristol with those at BHX.
Can BA see more potential at Bristol or are they confident that the market is already there at BHX?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Interesting to compare the passenger friendly timings at Bristol with those at BHX.
Can BA see more potential at Bristol or are they confident that the market is already there at BHX?

I wondered about that. I tend towards the latter.

 

[58terminus]

I wondered about that. I tend towards the latter.

Could the timings be influenced by any airfield restrictions as BA seem to be looking to utilize the aircraft to the max?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Stand availability possibly playing a part as things are looking pretty busy over the peak summer months? Especially at weekends.

 

[thunderchild]

Will they use Eurohub???

 

[Ray Finkle]

Will they use Eurohub???

Well it was designed and purpose built for BA

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and all, any updates on how tickets sales are going for Ba city high flyer at all, because Birmingham needs to show British Airways, that is the demand for this after they have persuaded British Airways to agree to this, otherwise British Airways will pull out, then this type of opportunity won't happen again... Andyc

 

[IanFarquharson]

Blue Air should be using T2 today

 

[Ray Finkle]

Hi Andrew, not heard either way how the flights are selling. Obviously the British Airways name will grab peoples attention but the timings are shocking and once weekly doesn't suit many, they certainly didn't persuade me to switch from Monarch.

With three of their routes served by other airlines it will be difficult to work out the load factors, it'll be interesting to see how Florence performs though.

 

[DaveBham]

You know what will happen. They're offering appalling flight times, so fewer people will use them. Then BA will walk away muttering 'we tested the market at bhx but found there wasn't the demand'.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Davebham, I totally agree, that's how British Airways are operating, if there times were 07:00, 09:00 or 11:00am, all slots would be sold out by now, but if there slots are 9pm, 11pm, then who's going to want to fly at that time, getting to destination either 11pm or early hours of the morning, that's why British Airways have done it for, very crafty trick to play, no takers, then withdraw it as no demand... Andyc

 

[thunderchild]

You know what will happen. They're offering appalling flight times, so fewer people will use them. Then BA will walk away muttering 'we tested the market at bhx but found there wasn't the demand'.

I think there are a fare few people out there who won't mind flying at that time; the young party crowd will be able to save a day's holiday flying at night, then they can head straight out to the bars and clubs on arrival and sleep it all off the next day round the pool.

But again this is no market test; they already know what it is! This is BA simply utilising an aircraft that would otherwise be sitting idle at LCY for the weekend - hence the choice of Palma, Ibiza and Malaga where you can't go wrong. Florence is the only curveball but at one weekly they don't really have much to lose.

If Flybe had added these routes there wouldn't be anywhere near this level of talk about it.

 

[Brummiegem]

While I share some of Andrews' cynical opinion,I do think it is a tad harsh to suggest the timings have been deliberately set up to fail.
As Thunderchild rightly says,Saturday afternoon/night through to Sunday lunchtime is the only time these aircraft can be used.

My concern though is why now?
Previously BAW seems to have been happy to let others operate from regional airports,letting it concentrate on what it does from London,whether it be LHR,LGW or LCY.
The decision to suddenly open up routes from various regionals to leisure destinations only using business configured ERJs is a bit strange in my opinion.
Ok it will be a comfortable journey,it would have to be at them times,but what is the long term plan.
Expansion has been mentioned,IF,the flights are successful.How though are they going to expand?This is where it gets interesting.

Do BAW/CFE have aircraft on order to operate an expanded program out of other airports?.Not just on Saturday nights or Sunday mornings.

Why not use A319s or A320s from the LGW fleet,as they will be configured towards leisure routes better than the ERJs.

Are BAW looking to utilise the ERJ fleet on other services post BREXIT,because they feel there will be a decreasing need for such services out of LCY? Flights from LHR will be enough!!

Is this a genuine attempt to claw back lost ground to it's competitors?,especially as we have seen some serious expansion from more than 1 non U.K. based airline into the regional airports of GB.

This is something that is going to get very interesting over the next 12 months or so.
BREXIT will have some sort of effect,and all airlines will try and protect their most profitable routes,possibly axing those that aren't.

Whatever the reasons for BAW to restart operations out of regional airports,I only hope that BHX profits from it,both in terms of passengers numbers and money.
I also hope that the customer is getting a fair deal,in price and choice!!!

 

[nwoody2001]

It has nothing to do with claw back, it has nothing to do with Brexit….


…The only reason the like of MAN, BHX and BRS are getting these routes is because London City Airport is shut at weekends due to issues of noise. The E190s are based at LCY are therefore otherwise sitting empty on the tarmac if they don’t use them.


Consequently, it makes sense that for the weekend, you shift these planes to airports where they can be used and earn BA a little bit of money, more money that would be made if the planes were sat idly on the tarmac at LCY.


This is not BA testing the market. If they were/are able to overcome the LCY closure times, I have no doubt that these routes would be axed and the planes sent back to LCY for the weekend.


The hope is, that BA will see how profitable these routes can be and would want to invest in the future, but there is no evidence this will be the base….

 

[Brummiegem]

Yes I get the reasons for these flights.
What I don't get is why now.The ERJ fleet has gradually grown over the 10 or so years they have been in service,but only now have they decided to utilise them during quiet times at LCY.
I think it was started last summer or the summer before from either EDI,or GLA or both to various destinations.
This summer will see an increased program including flights from the above mentioned airports.
The aircraft have also been used on an ad-hoc basis previously,again mainly at weekends.
Perhaps we are looking to deeply into this,but like I said earlier,ops at LCY have been like this since the airport opened.Why only now have they decided to get more use out of aircraft that would otherwise be sitting idle?

 

[Coathanger16]

Airlines are not in the habit of setting up routes that they know will fail just to prove a point - it doesn't provide as good (if any) a return as if the aircraft had been used for a different route that the airline suspected had potential. In other words, BA DOES think these routes will be profitable. If they didn't, they WOULDN'T be operating them.

I don't mean to judge, and I accept I may be wrong, but the response of "BA are setting up these routes, knowing that they'll fail, so they can turn around and say there's no demand from the regions" from certain members of this forum is quite amusing/hypocritical when those same members a few months ago were as excited as a kid on Christmas morning with the prospect of BA operating from BHX again. The flights haven't even started yet! Let them operate first and then see how they perform!

As has been said before, BACF have set up these routes to make use of aircraft that would otherwise be parked at LCY doing nothing.

Why now?

Consider until the last couple of years most airports across the UK were still struggling to recover from the recession. Aircraft only make money when they are flying, so BA wanting to fully utilize their LCY fleet during LCY closed hours is hardly new, but I imagine that regional airports recent growth has focused their attention on what to do with that fleet.

Its probably just talk from Willie Walsh, but before LCY was given the green light for expansion, WW threatened to pull out of LCY if they increased airport charges too much to cover expansion costs. LCY have now been given approval to expand. Do I think BACF will pull out of LCY? Of course not. However if through operating these flights BACF know that they can operate profitably from the regions, their threat of pulling out of or reducing flights to LCY suddenly becomes a realistic bargaining chip. Certainly enough to make LCY management think twice about pushing BACF.

Another point to consider (though more applicable to BA in general and not these BACF flights in particular) is that BA's main operations currently are at Heathrow, Gatwick and City - which are all pretty much full or will be over the next few years. That presents very little room for growth for BA. Consider that any new runway in the SE isn't going to be operational for at least a decade, and I would be very surprised if BA weren't looking at other possible means of growth. That doesn't necessarily mean a full on return of BA to the regions, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years BA had some presence in the regions (beyond their current BACF offering).

Consider 5 years ago the idea of BA operating from the regions was shot down in flames, yet now (or soon will) we have BACF operating from MAN, BHX, BRS (and GLA & EDI?), and BA's tone of long haul from MAN has changed from "never" to "not in the immediate future" to WW stating "low cost long haul will become a significant part of IAG" across Europe. In that context, the idea of BA operating a selection of routes from the regions in 5 years or so doesn't seem so unlikely.

I don't think these BACF flights are BA "testing the water" for mainline operations - it is purely about fleet utilization - however I would be very surprised if BA weren't considering operating from the regions in some form again, and as frustrating as it is to admit it, that is likely to come to Manchester before it comes to Birmingham.

Why not use A319s or A320s from the LGW fleet,as they will be configured towards leisure routes better than the ERJs.

Because the A319s/A320s are fully utilized as it is. BA are looking for something for their ERJ's to do. It doesn't matter what aircraft is better suited to these routes - these flights are about getting maximum use of their ERJ fleet.

 

[Jerry]

Even if this is just a BACF operation to utilise their fleet on the weekends I do believe that mainline BA will be keeping a close eye on them for any possible future mainline operations from regional airports.