Brussels Airlines

[TheLocalYokel]

I am also concerned with the delays to Brussels airlines and why hasn’t the airport been promoting it. People are asking about about the resumption of the Brussels route and the airports answer is negotiations are continuing. The route has been available for months

My interest in the BRU route is not simply academic at the moment. My wife and I are looking to do a series of short breaks this year - we've already booked Switzerland with easyJet via GVA for September - and Belgium is another on our list. We've used the BRS-BRU link in the past but our most recent visits to the Belgian capital have been via Eurostar on journeys further into Europe.

Last week the Brussels Airlines website showed BRS-BRU restarting on 31 March; now it's the 1 May. I went part way through with a test booking this morning and the booking engine accepted it. However, I'm wary about booking a flight - it would probably be for May - in case the starting date is put back again. I know I could enquire of Brussels Airlines but I would have thought the airport would be anxious to give what information it could on the subject.

If we do visit Belgium this spring we'll probably use Eurostar again. The air link would have been preferable for a short visit but we are not confident that it will actually operate, and the airport won't even address this particular issue.

 

[alphagolf]

My interest in the BRU route is not simply academic at the moment. My wife and I are looking to do a series of short breaks this year - we've already booked Switzerland with easyJet via GVA for September - and Belgium is another on our list. We've used the BRS-BRU link in the past but our most recent visits to the Belgian capital have been via Eurostar on journeys further into Europe.

Last week the Brussels Airlines website showed BRS-BRU restarting on 31 March; now it's the 1 May. I went part way through with a test booking this morning and the booking engine accepted it. However, I'm wary about booking a flight - it would probably be for May - in case the starting date is put back again. I know I could enquire of Brussels Airlines but I would have thought the airport would be anxious to give what information it could on the subject.

If we do visit Belgium this spring we'll probably use Eurostar again. The air link would have been preferable for a short visit but we are not confident that it will actually operate, and the airport won't even address this particular issue.

I have just sent a tweet to Brussels Airlines to pose the exact question as to what is happening, I will let you know when I get a response.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I have just sent a tweet to Brussels Airlines to pose the exact question as to what is happening, I will let you know when I get a response.

Excellent. I was just about to do the same. I'll await your reply. It would not have been a tweet in my case though.

 

[alphagolf]

Excellent. I was just about to do the same. I'll await your reply. It would not have been a tweet in my case though.

Response just received, not promising I must say

https://twitter.com/x/status/1100805679261065216

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Response just received, not promising I must say

https://twitter.com/x/status/1100805679261065216

Stranger and stranger. The replacement by CityJet from the end of March has been in the Brussels Airlines booking system for some time -see post #47 by Severn on 3 November last year in this thread. It would surely have no bearing on flybmi going out of business as they were coming off that route - unless Brussels Airlines were having a re-think and were going to continue to use flybmi either as code share or as a carrier for Brussels Airlines.

However, fights are bookable from 1 May and the notice about all flights from Bristol being cancelled until further notice that was present last week has now been removed.

A test booking for early May threw up £166.37 return for the dates I submitted. Why are they selling flights if they then tell enquirers they are still looking for the best option for the long term? flybmi was reportedly selling tickets on the morning of the day they announced their closure. If Brussels Airlines are selling tickets but not yet certain the flights will operate that's just as bad in my book.

I sincerely hope they are not doing that.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Response just received, not promising I must say

https://twitter.com/x/status/1100805679261065216

Stranger and stranger. The replacement by CityJet from the end of March has been in the Brussels Airlines booking system for some time -see post #47 by Severn on 3 November last year in this thread. It would surely have no bearing on flybmi going out of business as they were coming off that route - unless Brussels Airlines were having a re-think and were going to continue to use flybmi either as code share or as a carrier for Brussels Airlines.

However, fights are bookable from 1 May and the notice about all flights from Bristol being cancelled until further notice that was present last week has now been removed.

A test booking for early May threw up £166.37 return for the dates I submitted. Why are they selling flights if they then tell enquirers they are still looking for the best option for the long term? flybmi was reportedly selling tickets on the morning of the day they announced their closure. If Brussels Airlines are selling tickets but not yet certain the flights will operate that's just as bad in my book.

I sincerely hope they are not doing that.

Flights between BRS and BRU are still available on the Brussels Airlines booking website from 1 May at 3 x daily with AR8 aircraft (presumably CityJet). When I checked a date in May just now a pop-up appeared saying that seven people were currently looking.

Does the right hand know what the left hand is doing at the airline? As I posted recently, I could not even get a meaningful reply from Bristol Airport as to the current position with the route.

Are some airports and airlines letting inadequately-trained people (not their fault, it's the employer's if that is the case) comminucate important 'facts' to the public that are either incorrect or misleading, especially via social media sites?

 

[Severn]

Brussels Airlines
Something odd is going on, as BRS-BRU flights are not bookable until the end of August now... Temporary glitch or are we about to see an end to this service!

 

[Marko1]

I suspect it’s going somehow

 

[alphagolf]

Brussels Airlines
Something odd is going on, as BRS-BRU flights are not bookable until the end of August now... Temporary glitch or are we about to see an end to this service!

I just tried and the first date is Monday 2nd September

 

[superking]

Much like a few other air lines that worked out of BRS. Keep tweeking the routes in many ways then quietly drop it.

With september start date lets hope it starts.Just like brexit keeps stuttering.
If we came out of eorope it does wonder what the pax loads to BRU would be like as i would think the europeon union staff would be the bigger user.BRU to me does not have the destinations a lot of the bigger airports in Europe have. Perhaps with that in mind it lost a lot of routes when Sabena went to the wall.

 

[Marko1]

We are starting to lose important connectivity and in the case of Brussels if they don’t resume in sept it would be a route lost forever.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Sabena, its associates, successors and code shares have operated BRS-BRU for nearly 30 years, perhaps longer. I remember flying BRU-BRS in an Embraer 120 Brasilia 25 years ago. The 30-seater was operated by DAT at that time, then substantially owned by Sabena, later wholly owned. As the route grew we saw DH-8-300s and then RJ85s, at one time 4 x daily with the latter. Some years ago Flybe DH-8-400s operated the route for Sabena's successor Brussels Airlines, decked out in SN livery. That was followed by bmi regional (that later changed its name to flybmi) E-Jets, initally for Brussels Airlines, later as a code share.

Last November the Brussels Airlines website booking engine showed that they were taking back the route from the flybmi code share using ARJ85 aircraft, presumably those of CityJet. With the uncertainty of which we are now aware, would that uncertainty have been present if flybmi had not ceased to operate? The obvious answer must be yes, because flybmi were apparently being taken off the route anyway and Brussels Airlines could not have known that flybmi would cease to operate in mid-February this year.

This evening I tried a test booking for dates in mid September and, although three flights a day are shown in the Brussels Airlines booking engine for those days, I was met with this response at stage one of the booking process.

Sorry, we cannot proceed with your request as we don't have prices for your requested dates. Please choose other dates. If the problem persists, please contact our Service Centre at +32 (0)2 723 23 62 (local tariff) for further assistance.

I half expected something like that because no fares were shown against the days in September. This was not the case when the booking engine at first showed booking availabiity from 31 March then from 1 May. I wonder if the airline took bookings at that time. If they did they would surely number in hundreds, perhaps thousands, which potentially will cost the Lufthansa-owned Brussels Airlines a packet in re-routing and subsistence. Lufthansa will be in the same boat for the BRS routes to FRA and MUC which many would have booked as LH code shares connecting to LH at FRA/MUC.

I'm not a betting man but if I was I would be putting money on this being the end of BRS-BRU by Brussels Airlines or a code share with them. I hope to be proved wrong but I'm not confident that I will. If I am I've lost confidence in Brussels Airlines as I was going to book with them on BRS-BRU-BRS for later this spring. I'm very glad I didn't. I steered clear of flybmi in recent years because of their propensity for cancelling flights and now I shan't be looking to fly with Brussels Airlines or associates if they did return.

BRS has lost two important hub routes at a stroke and now it seems they might have lost a third. From five they now have two and one is only of any use for North America.

Looking at 2018 the flybmi routes carried these passenger numbers:

Brussels 55,115
Frankfurt 53,277
Munich 47,994
Hamburg 13,071
Dusseldorf 12,807
Paris Cdg unable to be certain because of easyJet but based on the numbers when easyJet had the route to themselves flybmi probably had 30,000-35,000

The overall total was probably around 215,000.

BRS keeps on about relying on growth with existing airline customers but they keep losing airlines.

In the past ten years the following scheduled airlines ceased to operate from BRS: BACF, WOW, Helvetic, Air France, OLT, Air Southwest/Eastern, Scilly Skybus, Continental, Flybe, with Wizz Air down to a single route from the four previously flown.

BRS has been largely a low cost airline airport for many years. Now it's becoming almost an entirely low-cost airline airport. Apart from easyJet and Ryanair the only scheduled carriers are KLM Cityhopper, Aer Lingus Regional (Stobart), Blue Islands in association with Flybe and Loganair replacing the sole flybmi route (ABZ) that will continue.

 

[Jerry]

BRS has been largely a low cost airline airport for many years. Now it's becoming almost an entirely low-cost airline airport. Apart from easyJet and Ryanair the only scheduled carriers are KLM Cityhopper, Aer Lingus Regional (Stobart), Blue Islands in association with Flybe and Loganair replacing the sole flybmi route (ABZ) that will continue.

Losing BRU, MUC and FRA essentially leaves BRS with only 2 hub routes, AMS and DUB. I know EZY fly to a few hub airports but they don't codeshare/interline same with FR.

 

[Marko1]

I’m wondering what the strategy is for Bristol for the future. Given the inability to attract full service carriers and retain key routes with onward connectivity should they go all out and do a Luton and become a low cost / leisure airport. The present strategy of relying for growth on existing carriers has been shown wanting with almost 100% reliance on easyJet for that growth who may add an extra aircraft each summer . Even tui seems to reducing even further next summer. I can see stagnation in growth coming. I’m not positive at all at the moment

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Losing BRU, MUC and FRA essentially leaves BRS with only 2 hub routes, AMS and DUB. I know EZY fly to a few hub airports but they don't codeshare/interline same with FR.

Indeed. I made the same point in my previous post.

BRS has lost two important hub routes at a stroke and now it seems they might have lost a third. From five they now have two and one is only of any use for North America.

I’m wondering what the strategy is for Bristol for the future. Given the inability to attract full service carriers and retain key routes with onward connectivity should they go all out and do a Luton and become a low cost / leisure airport. The present strategy of relying for growth on existing carriers has been shown wanting with almost 100% reliance on easyJet for that growth who may add an extra aircraft each summer . Even tui seems to reducing even further next summer. I can see stagnation in growth coming. I’m not positive at all at the moment

Re the strategy, the short answer is - whatever makes the airport owners the most money.

I've said for a long time that BRS is really a short haul airport. For direct long haul Europe's biggest airport is just up the road and for those who are happy to use hubs BRS had a reasonable selection........until a couple of weeks ago.

In 2017 an airport press release stated that easyJet carried over 4.2 million passengers in 2016 of whom over 2 million were business passengers. I found that hard to believe but if true then easyJet provides a decent service for short haul business travel in the region.

The city region's successful economy suggests that business travellers are coping with this mix of LHR and hubs for long haul, and BRS direct for short haul.

We've been saying for a while that the over-reliance on easyJet could bring the walls down if for whatever reason that airline decided to drastically reduce its presence at BRS. The snag is that's how things seem to be at smaller regional airports.

Less than 20 years ago BRS was primarily a charter airport with a small selection of scheduled operators and routes. It's now mainly a scheduled service airport, albeit with low-cost airlines, but still with a small selection of operators. The difference is in the vastly increased number of routes........ and passengers.

I think BRS's only possible strategy is to concentrate on contining to build its short haul scheduled operations. The tactics in terms of how it does that is much harder.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Brussels Airlines
Something odd is going on, as BRS-BRU flights are not bookable until the end of August now... Temporary glitch or are we about to see an end to this service!

I know it's fashionable to blame Brexit for many things but it could be playing a part in the BRS-BRU ongoing situation, and it really is ongoing with the continual pushing back of the apparent start date (or resumption depending on how the matter is viewed).

On the Monday after the news of flybmi's demise the BRS CEO told the local ITV news that he was confident of announcing a replacement for one of the routes that week with a European airline mentioned (it wasn't Loganair and ABZ as that had already been discussed). Some of us thought it might be Brussels Airlines. Although from November last year the Brussels Airlines booking engine showed the route switched back to SN flight codes from 31 March with AR8 equipment, probably CityJet wet leasing for Brussels Airlines (replacing the flybmi code share under BM flights codes) I can't remember an official announcement.

Given the uncertainty over the form of Brexit or possibly Brexit itself, with hopes of a conclusion waxing and waning, this might be the reason why the route start date has been pushed back twice now. If the airline really hasn't made up its mind over BRS-BRU why not take it out of the booking system completely until such time as it decides to resume the service, and if it has already decided to axe it why leave it in the booking engine at all?

 

[Kernow Bravo]

Last November the Brussels Airlines website booking engine showed that they were taking back the route from the flybmi code share using ARJ85 aircraft, presumably those of CityJet. With the uncertainty of which we are now aware, would that uncertainty have been present if flybmi had not ceased to operate? The obvious answer must be yes, because flybmi were apparently being taken off the route anyway and Brussels Airlines could not have known that flybmi would cease to operate in mid-February this year.

One wonders in hindsight whether Brussels Airlines' decision not to renew their agreement with flybmi was a contributory factor to flybmi going under.

If the BRU service is lost, it is one of the few occurrences which can perhaps justifiably be blamed on Brexit, but that is purely because the point to point traffic connected with EU business would be significantly reduced.

Either way, this would be a major setback for the airport, not so much in terms of loss of passenger volume but more in terms of weakening the marketing and negotiating 'hand' that BRS could play in trying to grow the business.

I can imagine that the departure of CO would have had a similar effect, albeit the economic climate was perhaps a little different 10 years ago. Those events predate my usage of the airport (save for one inbound KLM flight for a VFR trip) but no doubt those who have been BRS watchers for a while may have a view on the actual impact of that situation. Perhaps given the economic climate at the time it hastened the shift towards growing the LCC market, an opportunity which BRS seized more effectively than many other regional airports?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

One wonders in hindsight whether Brussels Airlines' decision not to renew their agreement with flybmi was a contributory factor to flybmi going under.

If the BRU service is lost, it is one of the few occurrences which can perhaps justifiably be blamed on Brexit, but that is purely because the point to point traffic connected with EU business would be significantly reduced.

Either way, this would be a major setback for the airport, not so much in terms of loss of passenger volume but more in terms of weakening the marketing and negotiating 'hand' that BRS could play in trying to grow the business.

I can imagine that the departure of CO would have had a similar effect, albeit the economic climate was perhaps a little different 10 years ago. Those events predate my usage of the airport (save for one inbound KLM flight for a VFR trip) but no doubt those who have been BRS watchers for a while may have a view on the actual impact of that situation. Perhaps given the economic climate at the time it hastened the shift towards growing the LCC market, an opportunity which BRS seized more effectively than many other regional airports?

There seems to be a view on another well-known aviation website that the Lufthansa Group might be finding it difficult to source the right size aircraft for the BRU route and even for FRA. The A319/320 family is almost certainly too big for the sort of frequency (ie at least 2 x daily, ideally 3) required to make connectivity attractive for passengers, and the small EJets might not have provided the necessary economy of scale, particularly for flybmi who might have been handing over more money to Lufthansa under the code share than they could afford.

About once a year the flybmi management would announce that they were looking for larger aircraft for some of their routes, and BRS-FRA was a route they mentioned. Probably a 70-80 seat aircraft would be the right size for that if they wanted a 3 x daily schedule.

If BRS-BRU is heading to the scapyard - I think it must be the second longest continually-operated European scheduled route at BRS after KLM to AMS - then that will be a big blow to the airport and its users, particularly business travellers.

In some ways I think it's worse than losing Continental to Newark. CO began BRS-EWR in May 2005 at the same time as they began BFS-EWR. At the time CO had no access to LHR so adopted a strategy of flying into UK secondary airports to complement their route into LGW and their routes into the larger UK regionals such as MAN and BHX. Initially, the BRS route exceeded CO's publicly-announced target in terms of passenger numbers but then the recession slowly began to bite.

If that wasn't bad enough a much bigger potential blow to the BRS-EWR route occurred with CO gaining LHR rights. They promptly switched their LGW-EWR service to LHR. BRS-EWR held on for another couple of years or more until the news was broken that it would cease in November 2010 after five and a half years operation. The Boeing 757-200 was simply moved along the M4 to become CO's fifth daily EWR service from LHR. From the airline's perspective I'm sure it made sound economic sense.

I don't think that the loss of CO hastened the shift towards the LCC market at BRS. That had been building at a fast pace since 2001 and the two are not really inter-related except as a perception (at the moment a valid one) that BRS is a LCC airport. In fact, the current master plan published in 2005 made the point that there is only demand for about four long-haul schedueld routes at BRS and quoted New York (already flown to EWR then), two other US routes and the ME. I doubt that the new master plan, whenever it is published, will see a huge divergence away from that view.

I believe that the largest setback BRS has suffered in many, many years in terms of broadening its range is its failure to secure a ME route when Qatar opted for CWL instead. Qatar is the only one of the MEB3 with regularly-operated aircraft that could use BRS and that airline's decision almost certainly indicates that BRS can forget a major ME carrier, at least for the foreseeable future. They might get Turkish to Istanbul at some point but that route is not actually long-haul in itself. It feeds into long haul as does KLM.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

From the outside it appears BM was poorly managed in a number of ways.
- They struggled with recruitement and retention. Pilots were looking elsewhere to fly bigger aircraft. BM were low on the food chain for pilot progression. Cabin crew were leaving for other airlines and industries. BRS especially didn't get great conditions because of the way the crews were used in outstations in BRU and Germany to crew the Intra-European routes, often being away for days. Eventually I think MUC had a crew base setup, being the biggest base, with BRS second.
- Aircraft were old, tired and possibly too small to be able to provide attractive fares. They had to go for the expensive fares but with that came higher expectations and requirement for a higher end product, something that wasn't always satisfactory. There was a desire to get bigger aircraft (E70 size), but never materialised.
The combination of both of the above often left operational issues and poor on time performance. Delays and cancellations due to lack of crews and aircraft reliability, which was fairly consistent for a number of years. That is certainly going to annoy your customers, especially given the fares people were having to pay. I have no doubt that caused them loss of custom.

Despite them offering connections to LH and SN hubs, they weren't able to offer the full product (Flyer miles etc) on some services out of BRS, another annoyance of customers.

Eventually something had to give. They were operating in niche markets with little competition, so often they were the only option for convenience, with the other option being other airports (BHX/LHR) in BRS case. Why EZY never upped CDG is a mystery because they could've easily knocked them off the route.

It's been mentioned that LH won't touch Loganair because they have the same owners as BM. But lets not forget they are 2 separately run Airlines with the same parent company. That's like saying Airline X won't do a deal with BA because they had a falling out with IB, and they are both owned by IAG. If Loganair were the right fit for the routes required and LH/SN saw profitability in the route, then they would be on it. No doubt there would have to be assurances of operational performance.

As for possible Airlines to operate BRS-BRU and Germany, anything is possible. Some of the UK airline's that could throw their hat in...
- Stobart could step in with ATR's, as they are independent, however operate on behalf of EI which would be competition, however BE will be operating for VS and Stobart.
- Flybe used to operate for SN, as above will be competing with VS
- Eastern Airways - No-one really knows what is going on with them at the moment, but they have ATR's and EMB suitable
- Blue Islands - If they wanted to expand could at least make BRU work, possibly with JER rotations in between SN flights on the more economical ATR.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

From the outside it appears BM was poorly managed in a number of ways.
- They struggled with recruitement and retention. Pilots were looking elsewhere to fly bigger aircraft. BM were low on the food chain for pilot progression. Cabin crew were leaving for other airlines and industries. BRS especially didn't get great conditions because of the way the crews were used in outstations in BRU and Germany to crew the Intra-European routes, often being away for days. Eventually I think MUC had a crew base setup, being the biggest base, with BRS second.
- Aircraft were old, tired and possibly too small to be able to provide attractive fares. They had to go for the expensive fares but with that came higher expectations and requirement for a higher end product, something that wasn't always satisfactory. There was a desire to get bigger aircraft (E70 size), but never materialised.
The combination of both of the above often left operational issues and poor on time performance. Delays and cancellations due to lack of crews and aircraft reliability, which was fairly consistent for a number of years. That is certainly going to annoy your customers, especially given the fares people were having to pay. I have no doubt that caused them loss of custom.

Despite them offering connections to LH and SN hubs, they weren't able to offer the full product (Flyer miles etc) on some services out of BRS, another annoyance of customers.

Eventually something had to give. They were operating in niche markets with little competition, so often they were the only option for convenience, with the other option being other airports (BHX/LHR) in BRS case. Why EZY never upped CDG is a mystery because they could've easily knocked them off the route.

It's been mentioned that LH won't touch Loganair because they have the same owners as BM. But lets not forget they are 2 separately run Airlines with the same parent company. That's like saying Airline X won't do a deal with BA because they had a falling out with IB, and they are both owned by IAG. If Loganair were the right fit for the routes required and LH/SN saw profitability in the route, then they would be on it. No doubt there would have to be assurances of operational performance.

As for possible Airlines to operate BRS-BRU and Germany, anything is possible. Some of the UK airline's that could throw their hat in...
- Stobart could step in with ATR's, as they are independent, however operate on behalf of EI which would be competition, however BE will be operating for VS and Stobart.
- Flybe used to operate for SN, as above will be competing with VS
- Eastern Airways - No-one really knows what is going on with them at the moment, but they have ATR's and EMB suitable
- Blue Islands - If they wanted to expand could at least make BRU work, possibly with JER rotations in between SN flights on the more economical ATR.

An excellent precis, Foxlimayankee. Many thanks.

One intriguing point is whether the BRU route would have finished even if flybmi was still operating. Given that Brussels Airlines appeared from the booking engine to be taking the route back themselves with someone's RJ85s (CityJet it would appear) from the end of March, it must be presumed that the situation with that route's future would be as it is now.....uncertain, with nothing apparently flying until at least September.