Infrastructure, Construction & Developments

[IanFarquharson]

BHX runway extension is 10 years old today

 

[Aviador]

Hi guys and gals, just a bit of intervention here.

I know why the thread has recently been about security at the airport but the discussion has become polarised. This has moved the thread away from what it is intended for. So for this reason I have moved a sizable number of posts to the Security, Immigration and Border Control thread so this thread can return to the more positive aspects relating to the rejuvenation of the airport facilities.

Updated Monday 20:50

If you have recently posted about security or the queue leading to security, you will be able to find your post here

PLEASE NOTE:- Any further posts made here about the queues leading to security will be removed.

 

[Deleted member 8277]

Do BHX plan to revisit the planned expansion (including part of north terminal)that was binned in 2020 due to covid or are the just going to continue with the now no so cheap but still just as nasty bolt on's like the big tin hut being constructed between the south terminal stands and redevelopment of the old security area for shops ,restaurants etc. Maybe they could use the previously planned area's of expansion to improve the 2 keys areas that cause the most passenger anger at the moment?

 

[Ray Finkle]

From the article linked below

*Phase 2 of security upgrade including air-rail link

Not sure exactly what is planned but assuming it may be something to do with the closure of the air-rail link once the HS2 people mover opens?

Birmingham Airport terminal transformation to deliver fresh food & beverage partnership opportunities

Under current plans, up to six new F&B opportunities will arise airside at Birmingham Airport, with outlets ranging from 150sq m to 450sq m.

moodiedavittreport.com

 

[Deleted member 8277]

From the article linked below

*Phase 2 of security upgrade including air-rail link

Not sure exactly what is planned but assuming it may be something to do with the closure of the air-rail link once the HS2 people mover opens?

Birmingham Airport terminal transformation to deliver fresh food & beverage partnership opportunities

Under current plans, up to six new F&B opportunities will arise airside at Birmingham Airport, with outlets ranging from 150sq m to 450sq m.

moodiedavittreport.com

Thanks Ray, maybe they will use the rail link for north security queuing lanes to the train station and back by making it a covered walkway LMAO.

I don't know why they haven't extended the south terminal to include more facilities for passengers, baggage reclaim, immigration etc and not just build large a tin hut to hold passengers. Basically have a proper south terminal to share the load with north terminal and improve the passenger experience the airport wants.

 

[TM3]

The airport seems to stragegically want to push more into the LoCo space if you read Mr Barton's comments.

If this is the case a more basic LoCo terminal, away from the existing terminal might be a good idea, I'm sure I remember this being talked about before but not sure on the locaton?

This would leave the the existing terminal for the airport to push a more premium offering, for more Emirate frequencies, First, Q- Suites etc like they get a Manchester.

The existing main terminal is really a lot nicer and better designed than the Manchester T2 where they get a lot of the scheduled flights like Cathay, Singapore, etc. It's just overcrowded and needing a bit of a refresh.

It seems like the changes (despite the £££ amounts being thrown around) are a bit of a sticking plaster rather than accomodating the long term growth the airport clearly wants.

At the end of the day you could build a LoCo terminal down the road at Coventry if the council would allow it but they probably won't as they own part of BHX.

 

[Deleted member 8277]

The airport seems to stragegically want to push more into the LoCo space if you read Mr Barton's comments.

If this is the case a more basic LoCo terminal, away from the existing terminal might be a good idea, I'm sure I remember this being talked about before but not sure on the locaton?

This would leave the the existing terminal for the airport to push a more premium offering, for more Emirate frequencies, First, Q- Suites etc like they get a Manchester.

The existing main terminal is really a lot nicer and better designed than the Manchester T2 where they get a lot of the scheduled flights like Cathay, Singapore, etc. It's just overcrowded and needing a bit of a refresh.

It seems like the changes (despite the £££ amounts being thrown around) are a bit of a sticking plaster rather than accomodating the long term growth the airport clearly wants.

At the end of the day you could build a LoCo terminal down the road at Coventry if the council would allow it but they probably won't as they own part of BHX.

Hence the cattle shed for loco! but as jet2 are the main occupiers of south terminal they are not loco anymore. Sticking plaster it most certainly seems like, maybe when Nick (vennells) Barton disappears
(vennels for the pure BS he spouts) and another CEO takes over we may see changes the other way.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

The existing main terminal is really a lot nicer and better designed than the Manchester T2 where they get a lot of the scheduled flights like Cathay, Singapore, etc. It's just overcrowded and needing a bit of a refresh.

Can't agree with this TM. Even prior to T2 being built, the infrastructure @ MAN was better e.g. arrivals on ground, departures (including drop-off, check-in, security & departure lounge) on first floor. Think of the additional space this created for both arrivals & departures.
T2 was designed & built along these lines as has the T2 rebuild which, when fully completed will leave MAN as a flagship for MAG.

The flawed design of the "new" BHX left it with space issues from when the first Wardair 747 arrived and the Evening Mail printed the headline "WHAT WENT WRONG" due to lack of space in baggage reclaim / meet & greet. I think this was only a month or so after the new terminal opened.

 

[TM3]

I flew into MAN T2 recently and even with the refurb I found it a bit basic and austire. It's a very long taxi from the runway and the furthest terminal from the railways station.

The BHX terminal itself is actually quite modern with some nicely designed areas for F&B and lounges but they just feel crowded now. It also has the ability to transfer passengers airside and get them on an off aircraft using jetbridges.

The baggage area is also now fine for handling widebodies up to A380s, but I accept it can be overcrowded if there are too many inbound flights.

Like I said yesterday maybe it is time to start building a LoCo terminal for Ryanair, Jet2 et al. and free up this area to attract and service the needs of scheduled carriers like Qatar, returning US carriers like United, Singapore Airlines, etc. None of which I can see coming whilst the current terminal situation remains as it is.

 

[MB1]

Like I said yesterday maybe it is time to start building a LoCo terminal for Ryanair, Jet2 et al. and free up this area to attract and service the needs of scheduled carriers like Qatar, returning US carriers like United, Singapore Airlines, etc. None of which I can see coming whilst the current terminal situation remains as it is.

Perhaps when (if!) the airport had a commitment from airlines like United and Singapore it would look at future expansion and building new terminals to boot out the existing operators! "Build it and they will come" isn't a great business strategy. The runway extension has just turned 10 years old, it hasn't exactly encouraged a raft of intercontinental long haul services! (that's not a dig - the runway extension project was absolutely the right thing for BHX to do - a forward thinking, future proofing decision - quite rare in the UK these days!)

The fact that the terminal is full of Jet2/Ryanair/TUI is not the reason we don't see US carriers and Singapore etc. We have Emirates, Qatar, Air India, Saudia all running successful long haul routes. If more carriers wanted to come then BHX would work with them to make sure their operations were a success. But those airlines would have to see a solid business case first - that's what matters.

Leisure is and always has been a huge part of BHX's business (no different to any other UK regional airport). It's the biggest part of the market by a big margin. Look at the new easyJet base - pivoted to leisure travel - that's no accident. I don't see why sometimes people seem snobby about that part of the market as if it should be sidelined to go after more prestigious airlines.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I don't know why they haven't extended the south terminal to include more facilities for passengers, baggage reclaim, immigration etc and not just build large a tin hut to hold passengers. Basically have a proper south terminal to share the load with north terminal and improve the passenger experience the airport wants.

I agree. The only conclusion I can come up with is that in the medium term it's days are numbered but I'm not convinced we'll see a shiny new terminal, not in my lifetime anyway.

Although there are logistical issues I still think demolishing that 1980s car park next door and expanding T1 could work wonders, especially if they bought back the departure lounge extension filling in the void behind.

The BHX terminal itself is actually quite modern with some nicely designed areas for F&B and lounges but they just feel crowded now.

For the most part I feel the same.

At quieter times the departure lounge is not a bad space but when busy it's horrendously cramped and good luck trying to find a table for food. I do tend to retire to a nice quiet spot in the pier. Expanding the lounge by 40% into the link building will hopefully make a big difference and bring T2 in to play a little more.

 

[nwoody2001]

Just putting my "flying pigs" idea here... there is so much potential but just as ever, too little will or money...

x.com

x.com

 

[Birmingham Aviation]

I’ve never understood why the airport never put queues for each based airline for I.e

tui based queue
Ryanair based queue
Jet2 based queue
Easyjet based queue

Would make life 100 times better

 

[BHX492]

I’ve never understood why the airport never put queues for each based airline for I.e

tui based queue
Ryanair based queue
Jet2 based queue
Easyjet based queue

Would make life 100 times better

The simple answer is space and staff currently Birmingham has 25 airlines operating, Okay some don’t operate at the same time but realistically where could they queue in the morning you have Jet2 with 15 flights with nearly 3,000, and FR with 7 or 8 flights’s 1,512 more passengers so that’s already 4500+ without factoring EZY, TUI etc

 

[Birmingham Aviation]

Cheers for the answer bhx462

Say for example I had a flight to kalamata tomorrow at 6.00am
And it said arrive 2 hours before check in opens.With the queues up to over 40 minutes to 1 hour+ what time would I have to arrive?

The situation were in and which could get worse is six weeks holiday in august
The queues could be stretching to towards the hiring car platforms which means more people ,extra queues,More flights and more stress.Wonder if the airport has thought this through

 

[Deleted member 8277]

The situation were in and which could get worse is six weeks holiday in august
The queues could be stretching to towards the hiring car platforms which means more people ,extra queues,More flights and more stress.Wonder if the airport has thought this through

Of course they haven't, they expected the new scanners to make faster bag searches which they probably do but I bet they didn't factor the human scanning doesn't get any faster. The new equiptment will make things faster but not as much as they think and so building a smaller security area with less scanners than the previous is biting them. I cant believe they say the new area is larger than the previous screening area because its not.

 

[TM3]

Perhaps when (if!) the airport had a commitment from airlines like United and Singapore it would look at future expansion and building new terminals to boot out the existing operators! "Build it and they will come" isn't a great business strategy. The runway extension has just turned 10 years old, it hasn't exactly encouraged a raft of intercontinental long haul services! (that's not a dig - the runway extension project was absolutely the right thing for BHX to do - a forward thinking, future proofing decision - quite rare in the UK these days!)

With airports I think it's more a case of no-one is coming unless you build it.

You might think I'm being snobby about LoCos / Jet2 et al but I do actually use these services, along with full service carriers. It's not so much about the passenger it's about the frequency they are likely to travel.

A lot of business traveller on just as an example, Lufthansa are travelling the same routes, monthly, every few weeks etc, so it's not just a matter of come back next year, they can have multiple bad experiencies in a short time and make a genuine comparison on the overall experience vs say 3 hrs queue vs and hour and a half in the car to Manchester with a 15 minute queue.

In the large though, I think it's just about capacity, unless the airport can prove me wrong and start moving these passengers through security a hell of a lot faster.

At quieter times the departure lounge is not a bad space but when busy it's horrendously cramped and good luck trying to find a table for food. I do tend to retire to a nice quiet spot in the pier. Expanding the lounge by 40% into the link building will hopefully make a big difference and bring T2 in to play a little more.

This is the interesting point. I actually think the pier is quite a big and spacious area but passengers don't go there as there is little in the way of shops and F&B. I think more passengers encouraged to go to their gates if there was a bit more there, such as a Costa Coffee or something.

The pier is also architecturally a cut above the sort of building you get in most other UK airports, it's very spacious with high ceilings, big windows etc. It's obviously designed with for an ambitious city wanting to create a good impression to those travelling through it's main gateway.

Another thing I'm not a fan of is the enclosed areas you have to enter at the gate before boarding. This corrals passengers in an area where they can't use the shops / F&B / lounges etc or even the toilets, sometimes for quite a long time.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

I cant believe they say the new area is larger than the previous screening area because its not.

I think it's called concrete underpants!! ;-)

 

[Aviador]

Over the past few days we have seen too much thread drift with three separate threads of discussions relating to the security queue.. I understand the connection to this thread but we don't need to be having the same discussion in three separate threads. If anyone wishes to reply to posts about the security queue you must use the multi quote function and post it into the security thread. Let's keep this thread for discussing steel and concrete!

 

[Nibbles]

My approx understanding of airport works order will be 1) finish security, 2) relocate duty free to old security area, 3) (possibly concurrently with 2)) open up existing duty free into new F&B operators/departure lounge, 4) recommence previous works to extend departure lounge alongside international pier (including, i think, baggage claim/immigration.

After that its anyones guess, but the masterplan previously suggested a very urgent need for more stands with the main focus being south of airport currently occupied by car parks etc., and in the longer term to find a way to have a further pier somewhere in the vicinity of the parking bays north of the international pier. Also a need to introduce the HS2 linked APM at the south terminal and, presumably, reconfigure the airport so the premium offering is adjacent that. I guess that means the Air Rail link being removed which then helpfully provides a heap more space around security.

The concern though will be that (a lack of) stands becomes a barrier to growth before the size of the departure lounge especially if growth keeps on at its current rate.

But - i've spoken before about my wider concern that once (if?) the airport gets beyond ~25mppa (probably ~20 years away) it wont have anywhere else to expand to without purchasing half of Marston Green and bulldozing the lot - which in any case would be unlikely to ever get planning permission. In fact, planning permission for any expansion beyond that which it already has, beyond about >18mppa is going to be very tricky given the population north of the airport (i.e. re noise). For that reason i think its a bit of an own goal that the opportunity to move the airport completely, aligned with HS2 construction somewhere to the east of the M42, was not taken - though i completely realise that the likelihood of that getting planning permission is also small and the costs exorbitant (though blowing a £bn or so over the next few years could've been repurposed. In other words, BHX might have a problem in 20 years time when it can no longer build new infrastructure and is effectively stuck at that size for ever more.